I absolutely agree with everything you said.

But, what is decontenting?

jimm

 

"Decontenting" is the name given in this forum in recent years to the practice of DC in removing features and functions from the W211. Taking MY 2003 and early MY 2004 as a baseline, numerous features have undoubtedly been removed. Whether it was done to save money, or reduce complexity in the interests of reliability, or some combination of the two, is debatable. In addition to the items mentioned by sosh, many other features as big as SBC and as small as puddle lights and the shelf in the glove box are gone. One or more threads have tried to tabulate the "decontented" items, if somebody can find them. Of course, it's also true that major features have been added since 2003, including the 7-speed transmission and more modern COMAND in 2004 and the 5.5 V8 in 2007.

 

"decontenting" is a term that is used in the industry, I do not believe that it was invented on this forum. In fact the term is older than this forum. Yes there have been other improvements but the features I mentioned are important to me, more so than the new engine. The engine was changed in the interest of economy and efficiency along with a major competitive edge to compete with other manufacturers. Re SBC, I personally like it but if the current braking system is fine I do not care about that either as it really does not offer the owner/driver any convience in a day to day situation.

 

could someone please tell me what electronics and gadgets they are looking for? And what electronics are far superior?

 

Think about this. Germany has one of the most sophisticated tax systems [“complicated”] and corporate taxes are some of the highest in the world. Germany is also heavily unionized and workers are paid some of the highest wages in the world as well.

You think your E350 is overpriced?
You should price out your E350 with your options in Germany; it would be over $80k. Of course the dollar is pretty weak and figuring in the exchange rate does not help, but I guess what MB in the US is trying to do is to still price the car competitively to the marketplace. Or all those poor folks in Germany are getting ripped... they could indeed say "It's overpriced".

If [as some here have suggested] more people start to look and buy “cheaper” cars not made in Germany, MB, BWM, Audi etc will have troubled times coming.

 

Interesting point re: prices in Germany, and extending it back to the decontenting discussion.

Unfortunately what you don't see from the western side of the Atlantic is the far, far, far many more choices you have when buying a German car. This starts with at least 3 diesel engine choices alone. There are three distinct trim levels, and it is possible to get a very personalized and nicely equipped model with a host of not-avaiable-in-the-US features for far less than what you would get the base US version.

Think about it...if MB can make E classes into taxi cabs in Europe (go to any German town and look at them all) how can they charge the type of luxury premium they get away with in the US? They can't..and that us also why the MB Sprinter van is a Dodge in the US, and why you will never see an MB A class on this side either. Both would ruin the "luxury" image of MB in the US, and expose the pricing.

By the way, I love my E320 CDI...absolutelylove it.

 

An Infiniti M or, for that matter, an Infiniti G has standard and optional audio and navigation systems that are far more feature-rich than anything available on an E-Class. To give one example, the Infiniti G has an optional hard drive as part of its audio/nav system that lets you rip your CDs to the hard drive, and a CF slot that lets you play MP3s directly from the card. The navigation system features "birds-eye" views, of course, but also has 3-D outlines of buildings in urban areas, lane guidance and (by subscription) real-time traffic overlays, among other features not found on the W211 navigation. I don't know if that makes the Infiniti electronics "far superior" - it's a matter of opinion - but most would agree that the Infiniti entertainment and navigation electronics are a generation or two ahead of M-B. Much the same with Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura.

 

Overpriced ? Say in Singapore or Netherlands or USA ?

You could never afford that car in Singapore if you think the USA price is too high.

 

I think we are looking at different things when folks say "electronics" Im thinking of airmatic, or ventilated seats, active seats(in the 55), or quad climate control. I do admit the navi is sub par but the audio system sounds 100x better in the E then any infiniti using Bose. So you can plug in a card, I bet the majority of people are using ipods anyways. The hard drive is kind of cool and is the new bose head unit that they are shopping around to everyone

 

Well said. And .. a back-up camera should at least be available for luxury
cars .. as well as many other things. Note that I said at least be available
for a price. I certainly would pay more for the modern electronics even if
I believe the E, at present, is priced too high without the great electronics
available in Toyotas, Infinities, Buicks, Fords, etc, etc, etc.

So for me, of equal importance as the Es pricing is the frustration that we
can’t even BUY the good stuff. Someone stated that Germany offers more
options. That’s what MB needs here! More Options! Let us electronics nuts
LOAD UP! Then, those of you who still prefer the hand crank won’t have to
get this newer stuff.

jimm

 

well i guess im gonna get shot to but the infiniti thing M45 is looking good specially on the metallic black and their sport package

 

25-30 years ago, a MB was a real prestigious car. Very few people had them. The prices were actually higher than the ones now. I remember the old 560 SEL was a heck of expensive car compared to others at the time. With the leasing program and the increase of high income bracket, a MB is nowhere as rare as 30 years ago. Quality has suffered along the way, yet, the real or false perception of MB has never dimmed. Someone compared MB to a Rolex was a very good analogy. Is Rolex really worth 5K? (a cheaper model) NO! It probably takes less than 10% of the selling price to make it, including overhead. But people save up or buy on credit just to have it. Just like MB 30 years ago, there are a lot more Rolex owners now. I bought my first, two-tone Rolex in 1976, and it is still as shining as the first day after a complete overhaul about 3 years ago. Can I keep my E for for another 25 years, I highly doubt it. My Rolex model is still being sold today and it has never gone out of style.

My point is if the E is priced too high, which I feel it is, then so is the Rolex, so is the Porsche, so is a Zena suit, so is a LV handbag, and the list goes on. The point is are you happy with your purchase? I am happy with my Rolex, but I am not happy with my E for several reasons and none of them has anything to do with the price. My dealer's service dept really sucks and the E had just too many issues with reliability. I can go to another dealer for service, which I have, and if MB ever gets its act together about reliability, I just may buy another one.

 

Exactly the point! Why should MB owners have to KEEP saying: “I want
such n’ such features like xxx has?”

It’s time for MB to again LEAD in OVERALL inovation! And, instead of just
catching up with things that others have had for years - how about some
new exciting electronics that “none of us have even thought about!”

Exciting Electronics add Sizzle!

jimm

 

This post got me thinking about the real world cost of a Lexus GS350 with all options compared to a E-350 (same level of options). Guess what? The Lexus is $10,000 cheaper and has more horespower.

Yes, the E350 is more fun to drive and the better handling car but $10,000 more?

When the Lexus GS460 appears in 14-21 days I will post the price difference between comparably loaded vehicles (460 vs. E550). I bet that the difference (real world) is at least $7,000 (gas guzzler tax included).

 

If people continue to buy MB in sufficient volume so that MB makes a profit, the answer is Yes. As I have said before price is a function of supply and demand. The fact is that from a pure functiomality standpoint -- getting you from point A to point B -- a Toyota (whether badged Toyota or badged Lexus) or even a Kia or a Saturn is adequate, and anything over the price for basic transportation is "too much". Thing is, for most of us buying a car is about more than transportation. Its about comfort, style, performance, and yes, "image". Its the same difference as between a Timex and a Seiko and a Brietling.

 

And the thing is , a digital watch is the easiest to see what time it is and use, is packed FULL of "Gee-Whiz" features and requires the least maintenance, but to almost all, a Heratage Brand analogue watch with a rich and storied past has the "Quality" feel & image to it.

 

Lexus is NOT a cheap digital watch or a seiko. M-B is NOT a Rolex or Breitling.
They are car manufacturers. M-B has undergone the same cost cutting maneuvers as every other auto manufacturer. The cabin filter is gone, the aluminum is being used, the leather and plastic is no better than Lexus and the electronics are "weaker."

What separates the auto manufacturers are the PERCEPTION of quality and the way the car handles/performance. Lexus is very high in quality but still lags M-B and BMW in the handling category.

But, charging a 20% premium for the Mercedes logo is unwarranted. Where are the FACTS supporting that 20% premium over a Lexus GS350? Quality?
Power? I will admit that a true German built sedan should carry a price premium but 20% is steep. If you look at depreciation (a reflection of how the market place values heritage plus quality) M-B is below Lexus.

Mercedes MUST realize that it is no longer 1982 and Lexus is a prime time player in the luxury car segment.

Here is what I would do if I were running the show and Daimler:

1. All new Mercedes come with a 7/100,000 mile warranty BUMBER TO BUMPER. No Charge. Now the claim of quality has teeth.

2. Keep my prices within 10% of Lexus. A 10% premium for the Mercedes brand on E and C class where the competition is battling for market share.
The S, SL, etc. can support a higher price premium.

3. Continue to improve quality and customer support. Every new customer should be a satisfied buyer is possible. Back up the product and provide FREE LOANERS for customers at all times. Treat the customer BETTER than Lexus and Infiniti (M-B could learn from them here).

4. Horsepower- While the E350 has more than enough HP for daily driving the perception of HP is more important than the reality. Thus. match the GS350 with 300 HP in the base 6 cylinder. Improve gas mileage in the V-8 so the gas guzzler tax goes away. I could live with 350HP in the V-8 with no gas guzzler tax. Offer a V-8 diesel that makes 400HP and no gas guzzler tax.

5. Online Forum- for current owners of M-B to discuss their cars. A M-B rep. would read the posts and provide feedback. The goal is continued product improvement and customer loyalty.

6. More customized options avail- Why not allow colors from other classes to be ordered at a charge. These days computers could allow more flexibility in exterior colors and interior choices. LEAD the way in this area.


7. Fuel Efficiency- I like the e320 diesel. Why can't I order the AMG package with the nice interiors of the E350? M-B should be PROMOTING fuel efficiency by pricing the E320 low and allowing sport packages.


Just some ideas. While I am at it bring back the all leather center console and let Lexus keep the wood steering wheel.

 

MB keeps selling more and more cars .. why would they change anything?? Its not like Lexus has dented their sales.

Also, I actually think MB should provide a better product and charge more and manufacture fewer cars. The way things used to be .. what are they upto now .. 11 or 12 different car types from $25k upto $200k? That the hell is that.

 

I thought the cabin filter was still present; what's gone is the ability to switch it on and off. Also, the use of aluminum to reduce weight does not lower cost, it in fact increases cost. Lastly, placing a Rolex, which manufactures its own movements, in the same category as a Breitling, which does not, seems a bit of a reach.

 

Are you sure about that? Toyota is quickly going to the top automotive company in the world and I have an inkling it's not tapping emerging markets as well as the Koreans are doing, therefore a majority of it's new buyers must be coming from elsewhere... like oh say America and Europe.

There's a lot of American only perception here, remember Mercedes makes big-rig trucks as well as tiny A-Class passenger automobiles. They've got E-Class and S-Class taxi's, but at the same time they make some of the most ferocious and powerful cars on the road such as the SL65 and the S65.

You should all be so happy that we have various competition with contrasting traits. The collective isn't allowed to be able to satisfy the needs of every individual. The idea of having a car that has history, quality, passion, and cheap is just impossible to make, because all of those are subjective / relative criteria. Certainly the man who buys a Carrera GT for it's incredible hyper-car clutch action considers the Honda S2000 as well... right?

 

You've got some valid points.

 

I hear you. What about the incentives? Mercedes had a $5,000 manufacturer incentive on the 2007 E550 and $3,000 in the E350. Clearly, MB wants to sell more cars.

I want MB to provide a better product like the good old days. A product that PROVES quality and not relies on the past. Will customers continue to pay a premium price 10 years from now if quality remains where it is today? Will Lexus become a more PREMIUM brand?

 

That was only for leftovers, and from what I could see there were not many available. I had to go to Va. to get my car in June....

 

Given the present Dollar vs. Euro exchange rate, I would venture to say we US customers are getting some of the best prices globally on German built MB products right now. MBUSA is accepting significantly less profit from the USA market in interest of market share.

Jimm, I see that you own a C6; I was just at Corvettes at Carlisle in PA. To put things in perspective, for 2008 they are at or over $60K for reasonably equipped coupes, verts are close to $70K. That is IMHO an overpriced car.

Agree that Lexus and Infiniti are offering a lot of content for the $$ which is a factor why Mercedes has kept the lid on pricing in the US.

 

theres a saying that goes,

"If you want to ride, you got to pay"

I think that sums up a mercedes quite eloguently.