Hyundai Genesis a pleasant surprise for E owner
05-28-2009, 11:03 AM
#26
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03 E500 and Corvette
05-28-2009, 11:26 AM
#27
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The Genesis looks like a nice ride, I would not mind having one as a DD. However, the comment on the older MB's in the years of 99-03 were the years of Chrysler/MB merger and quality got creamed. Remember Schremmp (sp?) who was fired as the CEO because of QC problems?
SA's had horror stories of having more warranty work than repair work which cost millions. Since then quality has greatly improved, but you still catch a few lemons (or dogs) as so eloquently put.
One thing I don't understand, in this climate of competing for buyers dollars some MB dealerships won't deal, and have people with terrible attitudes working at some locations. The days of acting "better than" and treating potential customers like crap are long gone. Some MB dealerships need to really wake-up. People are very selective about spending money now, period.
SA's had horror stories of having more warranty work than repair work which cost millions. Since then quality has greatly improved, but you still catch a few lemons (or dogs) as so eloquently put.
One thing I don't understand, in this climate of competing for buyers dollars some MB dealerships won't deal, and have people with terrible attitudes working at some locations. The days of acting "better than" and treating potential customers like crap are long gone. Some MB dealerships need to really wake-up. People are very selective about spending money now, period.
05-28-2009, 12:31 PM
#28
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Reliability isn't issue for me, because I lease cars. I was about to lease Genesis 4.6, however it is more expensive in lease than E350, so I have E350 in my garage. Hyundai should do something with lease rates. I understand that fast deprecation of Hyundai. Low residual value harms leases. So I hope people will love Hyundai over Merc soon and I could start taking the cars as well.
05-29-2009, 12:23 AM
#29
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When I was looking to replace my 2006 RL, I went to the auto show here in Portland in March. I sat in a Genesis and was very impressed. It looked nice, good price, good features.
So in late March, I went and test drove one. My impressions:
Its a good car and will be a serious challenger to all the luxury brands. But, it needs to mature some more. There are lot of little things that just aren't quite right. The handling is a little numb. The Nav is quirky. The interior trim is classy, but plasticky in places. The engine, especially the V8, is great, but needs refinement. The front seats are oddly shaped and do not go back far enough for taller people (like me).
And the dealership experience - its nowhere near the same as a MB dealership. When I was on my test drive, I was ignored for 10 minutes (and I had set up an appointment with the Internet guy). The showroom was old and dirty. And it was depressing to listen to some skeezy old sales guy try to bully this young couple into buying a Elantra when it was blatantly clear they had no money.
I was also uncomfortably buying the first year of a new model. Hyundia and Kia are good at refining products over time. Their initial efforts tend to be problematic. If this was a model that had existed in Europe or elsewhere for years (like the Kia Rondo) that might be a different story. But, the Genesis is all new and exclusive to the North American market.
Long and short of it - the Genesis has potential, but needs a few years to mature. I would expect that in 2011-2012, when they have AWD and have worked out the kinks, the Genesis will be a real competitor.
So in late March, I went and test drove one. My impressions:
Its a good car and will be a serious challenger to all the luxury brands. But, it needs to mature some more. There are lot of little things that just aren't quite right. The handling is a little numb. The Nav is quirky. The interior trim is classy, but plasticky in places. The engine, especially the V8, is great, but needs refinement. The front seats are oddly shaped and do not go back far enough for taller people (like me).
And the dealership experience - its nowhere near the same as a MB dealership. When I was on my test drive, I was ignored for 10 minutes (and I had set up an appointment with the Internet guy). The showroom was old and dirty. And it was depressing to listen to some skeezy old sales guy try to bully this young couple into buying a Elantra when it was blatantly clear they had no money.
I was also uncomfortably buying the first year of a new model. Hyundia and Kia are good at refining products over time. Their initial efforts tend to be problematic. If this was a model that had existed in Europe or elsewhere for years (like the Kia Rondo) that might be a different story. But, the Genesis is all new and exclusive to the North American market.
Long and short of it - the Genesis has potential, but needs a few years to mature. I would expect that in 2011-2012, when they have AWD and have worked out the kinks, the Genesis will be a real competitor.
05-29-2009, 03:08 AM
#30
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Hyundai could do whatever they want, its still a Hyundai.
You're paying more because of the three pointed star.
You're paying for the brand. I own an 08 E550 and I paid for the brand. The Hyundai could do everything my E550 did and even come with free gas for life, and I wouldn't drive it because I wanted a MERCEDES.
Both cars will get you from point A to point B and if thats all you care about, don't buy a Mercedes.
You're paying more because of the three pointed star.
You're paying for the brand. I own an 08 E550 and I paid for the brand. The Hyundai could do everything my E550 did and even come with free gas for life, and I wouldn't drive it because I wanted a MERCEDES.
Both cars will get you from point A to point B and if thats all you care about, don't buy a Mercedes.
05-29-2009, 07:48 AM
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03 E500 and Corvette
Hyundai could do whatever they want, its still a Hyundai.
You're paying more because of the three pointed star.
You're paying for the brand. I own an 08 E550 and I paid for the brand. The Hyundai could do everything my E550 did and even come with free gas for life, and I wouldn't drive it because I wanted a MERCEDES.
Both cars will get you from point A to point B and if thats all you care about, don't buy a Mercedes.
You're paying more because of the three pointed star.
You're paying for the brand. I own an 08 E550 and I paid for the brand. The Hyundai could do everything my E550 did and even come with free gas for life, and I wouldn't drive it because I wanted a MERCEDES.
Both cars will get you from point A to point B and if thats all you care about, don't buy a Mercedes.
05-29-2009, 08:17 AM
#32
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Don't get me wrong now, I am a total Mercedes household and have been pleased with my overall experience so far. However, it is just that, my experience. Some MB's in that 99-03 time frame are still dogs in the system, but I do believe MB is and has improved overall.
MB dealers like I said, get on my nerves. I don't and have not bought an MB from a MB dealership. Bottom line like mentioned in above post, Hyundai has come a long way baby, but they a way to go. Still.
05-29-2009, 08:32 AM
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You both have good points, but Vettedvr yours is better. If I pay more for a car, I expect better performance, reliability, and quality. Mercedes delivers in these areas mind you, but the reliability issue keeps hanging around like an unpaid bill.
Don't get me wrong now, I am a total Mercedes household and have been pleased with my overall experience so far. However, it is just that, my experience. Some MB's in that 99-03 time frame are still dogs in the system, but I do believe MB is and has improved overall.
MB dealers like I said, get on my nerves. I don't and have not bought an MB from a MB dealership. Bottom line like mentioned in above post, Hyundai has come a long way baby, but they a way to go. Still.
Don't get me wrong now, I am a total Mercedes household and have been pleased with my overall experience so far. However, it is just that, my experience. Some MB's in that 99-03 time frame are still dogs in the system, but I do believe MB is and has improved overall.
MB dealers like I said, get on my nerves. I don't and have not bought an MB from a MB dealership. Bottom line like mentioned in above post, Hyundai has come a long way baby, but they a way to go. Still.
You are so right confidence in reliability once lost is difficult to get back. Which is why Dr Demming said, "the cost of poor quality is unknown and unknowable". No one really knows how much they lose in sales by putting out just one bad / poor quality car.
Granted they all do but then we fall under the new heading of "We're no worse than anyone else".
Wouldn't that motivate you to buy a car from a dealership.
05-29-2009, 04:35 PM
#34
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My introduction to Mercedes was my father's purchase of a '59 180. The reason he purchased it is that he was tired of vehicles that couldn't make 50K miles without requiring an engine overhaul. Mercedes had a reputation for being able to last 100K without needing a engine overhaul, run all day flat out without overheating and a commitment to safety which would ultimately save his life when he was broadsided and walked away with a couple of scratches. He paid $4000 for a one year old car which was 20% the cost of a nice new home at the time. The car will always represent quality and craftsmanship in my mind. In that case you got exactly what you wanted above. You paid more and Mercedes delivered. You were not buying status but simply the best engineered and manufactured car in the world.
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05-29-2009, 04:55 PM
#35
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i finally pulled the trigger last nov 08 and got an 06 e500 4matic w/23k miles on it. After having driven a civic si for 10 yrs, i figured it was time to upgrade, even though nothing was wrong w/my civic. Researched and researched and found out the years as stated 99-03 was not good for Eclass due to electric gremlins and other things.
I really wanted to get a lexus, but the bodystyle of the ES and GS wasn't for me for the price i was looking to pay ($35k max on a luxury car, 06, less than 30k miles). After the whole summer looking researching and comparing prices, i waited til nov and found the one i wanted that met all my criteria. Plus it was CPOd and i got an extra 2 or 3 years for $1500. I'm happy with it and crossing my fingers that i wont run into huge repair bills.
I really wanted to get a lexus, but the bodystyle of the ES and GS wasn't for me for the price i was looking to pay ($35k max on a luxury car, 06, less than 30k miles). After the whole summer looking researching and comparing prices, i waited til nov and found the one i wanted that met all my criteria. Plus it was CPOd and i got an extra 2 or 3 years for $1500. I'm happy with it and crossing my fingers that i wont run into huge repair bills.
05-29-2009, 05:20 PM
#36
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Good Luck with it, bro. I've had the 2003 you see in the picture for 2 years and almost 5 months, (01/09/07 0 It just came off a lease,and not from a Benz dealer but from a NJ dealer who I've relied on since '94. Nice car,no problems,fast ,reliable,and gonna have my foreign car mechanic do the required maintenence on it manana~.... Congratulations!!
05-29-2009, 05:38 PM
#37
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Thanks for the analysis and great reviews! If you think that the Camry favorably compares with the E-Class, then you definitely are perfect for a Hyundai. Go for it and please post pics. Good luck!
05-29-2009, 06:34 PM
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03 E500 and Corvette
My brother drives only the Avalon and at 75,000 nothing but oil changes and still on OE tires but they are ready to change. So from Reliability YES!
05-29-2009, 06:42 PM
#39
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I'll admit MB had some severe reliability issues, but thats like saying Hyundai did not
Hyundai almost went bankrupt over their reliability issues .. I know, our family owned one back in 1986-1995 or something like that. Mercedes has produced nothing even remotely that horrible.
Hyundai has turned themselves around and good for them. So has Mercedes.
I do think those of you having wet dreams about the Genesis should go buy one. I for one think MB sells too many cars. I'd easily pay a 25% premium to have fewer MB's on the road and have a much higher quality car.
Hyundai almost went bankrupt over their reliability issues .. I know, our family owned one back in 1986-1995 or something like that. Mercedes has produced nothing even remotely that horrible.
Hyundai has turned themselves around and good for them. So has Mercedes.
I do think those of you having wet dreams about the Genesis should go buy one. I for one think MB sells too many cars. I'd easily pay a 25% premium to have fewer MB's on the road and have a much higher quality car.
05-30-2009, 07:45 AM
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
The Genesis is a great car, I was VERY impressed when I drove and rode in it. True it's no M-B, and doesn't carry the true workmanship and refinement/build quality/attention to detail of the E, but it is almost as close as I've seen a Korean/Japanese car get. They clearly designed this car with M-B/BMW in mind. For the price, if you want something nice, reliable, quiet, smooth, and isolated this is hard to beat.... It actually is a pretty stylish car too, I think it's got an a$$ that the new W212 wishes it had, very similar in look but a little more dynamic.
Here is an Article to a comparison between the W211 and Genesis, with some gorgeous pics of the lovely W211 with it::
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature...s/Motive.shtml
Here is an Article to a comparison between the W211 and Genesis, with some gorgeous pics of the lovely W211 with it::
http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature...s/Motive.shtml
06-21-2009, 07:59 AM
#43
Genesis vs E-class
I do shopping for a replacement my old E class. I do not restrict myself to Mercedes only, so I’m checking Infiniti, Audi, Audio, BMW. Most dealers are ready to negotiate invoice or below price. However my Mercedes was strict on sticker price for 08 model. I wasn’t invited to test drive or look in selection of available cars in lot, although deal has 15 remaining. Say more, I waited about 10 minutes when some sales person was available to give me E class brochure. They were out of 08 edition so I should take 09 one. I could check only a car in show room. I really wasn’t impressed. It looks like E class lost luxury feel. Somebody compared it even to Camry. No leather offered as standard, interior looks really cheap, steering wheels buttons have rubbish feel. No rest place for right elbow. So I decided to do not proceed with Mercedes. As for fun I decided to check what less experienced car makers can offer and visited Hyundai today. As only I parked at dealership I was met by sales who immediately offered me to visit dealers lot and see what they have. Genesis looks really good in and out. It doesn’t feel cheap inside, very comfortable, nice ergonomics. Trunk is huge. Test drive was very simplified, I wasn’t asked for driver license copy and I didn’t need to have a dealer in car. So I could drive Genesis alone. I was really surprised, 3.2 liter version performs reasonable well, no acceleration gap of Mercedes, and handling is quite comparable. Although the car is hot, a dealer was ready to negotiate price below sticker. Genesis has one problem, it is really funny brochure, no options details, not color selections, no options details. Will I buy Genesis? Hard decision, does it equal my time on visit a dealer for repair of Genesis and $25, 000 less cost?
I don't think the comparison is between a new Genesis and a new E-Class. Price difference is too huge for very little in the way of actual content difference. The Genesis is far and away a better buy...other than for snob appeal. Now new Genesis vs. used E-Series with an extended warranty is a better comparison.
I recently test drove a V6 Genesis and it is a very nice car; I could have had it at invoice (we get supplier pricig where I work). I think it drives pretty similarly to an E-series, actually, maybe just a little rougher. The interior is probably nicer and seems intellegently designed. I know Hyundais have gotten to be very reliable cars, Mercs still have problems in that regard. I did not pull the trigger on the Hyundai only because I wanted something with much better mileage, so I picked up an E320 CDI with 18,000 miles and 4 years of MB warranty for maybe $6-7k less than a new loaded Genesis would have cost. I am getting as city mileage almost what the V6 Genesis gets on the highway. If the Merc ends up being 90% as reliable as the Genesis would have been, I will be extremely satisfied. Frankly, if the Genesis came with a good diesel engine option, I would have bought it over the Merc.
Interesting thing is that our E320 (white) from a distance looks a LOT like a mid-sized Hyundai sedan (except for the star thing)...or a Honda Accord. I count this as a good thing as it may serve to not draw the attention of the "let's key the pricey car" jerks.
- GRL
06-21-2009, 09:39 PM
#44
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A price difference was favorable to E-class when I considered Genesis, with $650 for a good loaded 09 E350, or $750 for fully loaded Genesis 4.6 for 2 years lease. If I would be interested in purchase, then Genesis could be cheaper, however I couldn’t even imagine dealing with selling 5 years old Genesis then. A current buyer has much more benefits, I guess you can lease fully loaded Genesis 4.6 below $500, that makes much more sense in considering it. However left over 09 E350 can be even cheaper now. I agree that Genesis is on the same level as Avalon. I drove Genesis several times, I wasn’t impressed, it feels different than Mercedes. Luxury? Yes, Genesis can win here a little. Anyway, for price stand and prestige, Genesis doesn’t look like a good purchase. I saw just one Genesis on road, since I considered it. Indeed, it looks quite unique, but people still can’t take it over Mercedes. And finally Genesis has the same crappy Bluetooth as Mercedes, no address book load from my phone (BMW does it without a problem).
09-01-2009, 12:06 AM
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09-02-2009, 04:32 AM
#46
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They need to change their logo big time... It is such a turn-off. Mazda did it a few years ago to replace that silly hieroglyph with the present logo. Things like this are important.
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09-02-2009, 09:56 AM
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E500
I think the competition is a good thing. MB should be watching this thread. Since this discussion has been very fair and balanced, MB should be very afraid. In just a few short years, Hyundai has gone from junk status to being compared with MB--good for Hyundai. MB will have to respond by offering more or face fates similar to GM.
09-02-2009, 10:14 AM
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03 E500 and Corvette
Our 2003 E500 is still going (granted long line of parts replaced). I have been test driving new cars. I decided NOT to buy and give the 08/9 E series time to report on quality. The cars I have test driven drive as nice (well almost) as the E series and they are 1 st year new cars. So I am going to see how the reliability goes. I really like the E series BUT THEY MUST BE RELIABLE.
