NavNut

All right... So I have been all preoccupied about the COMAND nav availability... I keep getting hints from the forums that the Voice Recog feature on the phone is also not ready yet...

What is the latest on this from people who ordered it? My dealer has not even mentioned a problem with this part of the order to me yet, but maybe he is waiting to tell me that there is ANOTHER problem with what I want once we get past the nav problem...

Geesh! The voice recog is way less important than the nav, but let's face it... to me... it's these differentiating features which lead me to spending $30 grand more than an Audi or $15 grand more than a Bimmer... I couldn't care less about the status... I want these cars because of the features that you cannot get in any other car...

(This is kind of a side issue with me... I don't think I could ever buy a Benz off the lot... It seems that they usually only have one or two features. Most people seem to want MB's for the little hood ornament. If I get an MB, I want it loaded up with all the stuff I can't get elsewhere. It looks to me that most people on this forum seem to agree with this basic idea. i.e - most of you have descriptions in your signature with more than just the Harmon Karman premium stereo upgrade...)

On the E500, I want the nav, pano roof, voice recog phone - all integrated into the COMAND display, the Keyless-go, the Dynamic seats WITH active ventilation, and all the other basics you get like the suspension, etc... the only thing I don't think I want is the Distronic Cruise, and maybe the trunk closer thingie... maybe this should be another thread...

I personally think if you're gonna get a Benz, you gotta get it for more than just the silly hood ornament... Maybe that's just me...

-NavNut

dtm

I think you're right on the mark, Nav. While I would argue that paying more for a MB also buys you more in the unadorned vehicle alone (fit and finish quality, engine, braking, quiet ride, etc), I also am attracted to the brand because of the availability of unique, fun and useful options. I also would not buy a MB off the lot as they are usually not optioned-out to keep the price down to appeal to more buyers.

My desire for lots of options is what makes the current threads on nav, voice recognition, etc so disturbing. My guess is that most MB buyers think like we do about these options, and that they are the things that make the difference between buying MB and buying another brand. So to see MB's apparent cavalier attitude about availability of these options, and keeping its customers informed about same is not encouraging. Maybe MB thinks most of its buyers are interested in the medallion alone, and that they will 'put up' with a vacuum of information on options.

It's actually quite amazing that the car MB claims to be the centerpiece of its model line is fraught with so many option delays...since launch late last year, there have been delays or shortages in: COMAND, voice recognition, Panoramic roof (short supply), wood wheel, and even folding seats in some areas. Not to mention the fact that it is virtually the last model in the lineup to get 4Matic.

I hae an '04 E500 4Matic on order, but I must admit that if many of these technical and supply issues are not resolved by the time myd ealer calls me to finalize my order, I may start looking at other choices (Audi, Lexus, etc.).

dtm

And, by the way, I also decided against the Distronic for the very reasons you stated. I love cruise control, but I was frankly afraid of the car being too automated with distronic...almost encouraging the driver to be less aware of what's in front of them on the road...seemingly counterintuitive to the safety that MB preaches in its marketing.

rtrider

I have to agree with NavNut and dtm - this will be my first MB, and my reason for buying one, in addition to the apparent quality, is the availability of options that aren't offered by other automakers. That said, I'm really disappointed with the manner in which MB has handled the COMAND fiasco. I had ordered my car in Dec., and was told, as many were, that it would be retrofitted when COMAND was available (Q1/03). When I began to read the posts on this board about the COMAND delays, I asked my dealer, who repeatedly assured me (as did MBUSA) that there was not a problem - my car would be built either with COMAND or the prewiring installed. Only after I insisted to my dealer that there was a problem did he go through the "pile of messages we get from Netstar" and find the memo about the prewiring discontinuation and delayed COMAND availability.
(As an aside, the vehicle arrived at the dealer, and was subsequently sold to another party while I was out of the country, but that's another story.)
I can't understand MB's apparent refusal to acknowledge the COMAND dilema to its customers. Ignoring the problem, or at least choosing not to communicate about it, does not in any way alleviate the customer dissatisfaction that has resulted.

abhansali

ditto, put down my deposit Thanksgiving weekend, told late Jan build. Actually was supposed to built mid Feb, but Navi and Voice control delay makes it indefinite. Looks like April build right now, but I'm now considering delaying to 2004.

The part that really p***s me off is the fact that I will have loyally waited for 6 months or more and my reward...I get to pay more. I don't get the $500 off Navi promotion, probably won't be able to get the $100 launch promo on rear seats, and even the destination charge has gone up since Nov. When I get my production date, I will talk to my sales guy about additional discount for sure.

monakh

NavNut--with all the options you have specified, the car would be neck in neck with an S430 in terms of pricing. Isn't Navi standard on the S-Class? Man...it is such a weird dilemma. I, also, don't give a damn about status--my friends thought I was crazy to get an E for the price I paid. They thought it was just sooo much better to buy the S-class sedan with barely any options than a fully loaded E. Well, I loved the E, and that is what I went with (also considered the M5 briefly).

You know...for one reason or another, I always assumed the lack of Navi meant the lack of the Voice Activation module, as well. Perhaps my lame dealer said this at some point, but I just figured as long as Navi is an issue, so will be the VA module.

Having said that, I paid for it, just like the NAV, back in November. When I got the phone installed, they never gave me a reason except the fact that the module remained unavailable. I have had more information on this board about it (and everything else) than ever at the dealer. We should be teaching THEM a few things.

I am extremely disappointed with my dealer and MBUSA as a whole with regards to my purchase experience. I absolutely love my E, but the accompanying experience has left a lot to be desired. However, coming from VW's customer service (I used to have a Jetta!), the sad thing is that my expectations, even for a premium marque, are extremely low.

I actually got my car off of the lot, and was pretty lucky since it was pretty well loaded with all the options I wanted. The only thing I would have liked was keyless go. I will get that in the E55 that I have on order. Incidentally, as I mentioned in another thread, I have shifted my order to an '04 because of the Nav issues. It would have been nice to have driven it this summer as an '03...but oh well...

Incidentally, for the folks who are paying slightly more money for an '04, a small comfort should be that there is no longer any luxury tax. It ain't a lot, but every little bit helps.

NavNut

Wow... This is funny... monakh, your friends said pretty much what my salesman said... "Hey, at this point, why don't you just get an S-class..." Well, I don't WANT a stripped S-class... I don't give a damn what the S in the model name gives you in terms of "ooo's and aaah's" amongst the doctors' and lawyers' circles... I want high tech and features... apparently, I can't seem to get that with the E-class either. But the E-class loaded up is just the right thing for me.

The current S-class has the old cd-based nav system... aside from that, it doesn't have the features I want. You can't get the pano roof... once you add all the features I want back into it, it goes up another 15 grand anyway.

That is the thing about the rest of the world (I think the readers of this forum are an exception...) I think the rest of the world really would want a stripped S over a fully-loaded E... just for the status symbol. I'm a little down, because I believed all the literature and got sold on the vaporware features... I don't care about the status symbol part... I want the high tech features and I want them to work... I'm beginning to feel like I just can't get what I want. Heck... at this point I'd go for a Lexus if I could get European Delivery on it!!! (oh, no... let's no sink that far...) Clearly the Lexi don't do what the Benz's do in the literature... but they do the basic stuff pretty well, and it looks like they do it with reliability...

Oh well... I'll give it a couple more weeks, but I've got a sneaking suspicion I should just go ahead and put in the order for the 540...

-NavNut

drb

Go for the Lexus or 540. MB does not want your business, in my opinion. I relooked at the S420, and it is still unattractive. I will soon sell my 03 E320 for a 540, and gladly take the loss. I am thoroughly disgusted with MB, not only for the failing to deliver the navi, but MBUSA attitude reported here, and the lack of communication with dealers and long standing customers send a strong negative message. After over 2 decades in MBs, I will NOT return.

NavNut

This is sad to hear drb... Prior to my Audi, I had only Toyota's for serious, reliable driving, and big old American cars for fun... then I got the Audi in 2000 and got seduced... I found myself liking the damn car... when it worked...

I had the weird old idea of solid German cars... My Bimmer friends would tell me that's a myth, and they got sucked into the solid teutonic car thing, and ended up constantly dragging it in to the dealer for a zillion little "ticky-tacky" problems... I picked up the Audi and understood their complaints a little bit more...

The last bastion of the German cars for me was the Benz reputation... As I looked into them, I grew enamored of the features... but if I can't get the features I find important and I go nutty because of the "liquid filled engine mounts" making machine gun noises at idle or whatever, I just don't know what else to do...

I will not buy Audi again... I'm willing to give the Bimmers a try... I can't get the Lexi in Europe... I'd prefer the Benz's if they can deliver the promise. I worry that I was born either twenty years too late and missed the solid reliability of the German cars, or twenty years too early to catch the German cars when they finally debug all the little things... Heck, if I want a car that's in the shop 10% of the time and makes funny noises, I can just buy Italian!

-NavNut

kaneman

New bodystyle 5 series or old? I wouldn't want to be buying the current body with the new one around the corner. Then again considering recent BMW styling that might be preferable. IMO Lexus isn't a contender... the drive and the experience is just so inferior to MB. I owned a GS400 and couldn't ever get beyond the feeling that I was driving a really nice Camry.

jhb

Well, I ordered the nav and it is included in my lease (at $1625) and the voice activated phone which is also included in my lease at $2195 or maybe even more as a dealer install since the factory didn't have it available at build. On top of that, my dealer didn't know that I could have the regular V60 installed without voice activation and get the voice module later. I learned that by asking a lot of questions at MBUSA's customer assistance 800 number. So, last week it was installed. I still wait for nav and the voice module.

I too am disappointed at MB and the dealer for lack of effective communication. I assume that if the nav and/or voice module cannot be installed, I will be in for some compensation or buy back. Having said that, I need to add something for those who are reading about the nav and voice module and other issues and who do not already have the new E.

That is this: in all respects other than the nav and voice module, I am absolutely thrilled with the car. I love the looks, the drive, the feel and all the other components and functions. In my opinion, there is no other car to compare with it in its class. I don't even like the S Class more, especially in styling and feel. The E500 is nimble and sure. I find the S to be sure, but not very nimble.

I have given this a lot of thought since hearing that the nav may not be able to be retrofitted and that MBUSA may end up offering to buy back the cars from folks like me. I would either make a financial settlement if no buy back is offered or take the buy back if I can by doing so get the nav and voice. Either way, I will be driving an E500 afterward. I do not plan to cut off my nose to spite my face on this just on the principle of my disappointment over the nav and voice module.

The most important question to me is what do I love to own and drive and look at. I will get over my anger on the treatment (in fact, I only feel it when I am not driving the E500). I will come to the point where I accept the first year problems as just that and look at the bigger picture. I wanted to get the new E500 as soon as possible. I am still glad I did!!!!!

Jeff

dtm

Great points Jeff and a good dose of reality. Glad you're enjoying your car. Venting my frustrations on this forum about options on a car I don't even have yet is one way for me to deal with the anxiety of having to wait!

Bundy

Jeff,

I have an E500 coming without the Nav system. (Did not order.) Do I understand you correctly that you had your v60 phone installed into the car without modifying it? If so, could you provide more details on what parts were needed and how it works. I would love to use my existing phone and don't care so much if the voice recognition part of the "full factory package" works.

Please provide more details.

Thanks.

David

jhb

David: I had the standard Mercedes V60 phone installed. That is the option that has always been available from day one that my dealer didn't know. The dealer thought that the voice module had to be installed from day one. I could have had that from the factory and later install the voice module, when and if available. For me the voice activation is a safety issue. I like not having to punch in numbers from the keypad of the phone or radio control.

Just to be clear, I did not have a non-MB V60 installed, if that is what you thought from my post.

Hope that helps,

Jeff

Bundy

Thanks. I did think you had a non-MB phone and were able to integrate. Unfortunately not.


Thanks for the info.

monakh

You can NOT use any ordinary V60 in the MB System. I have confirmed this first-hand with multiple band V60s in my E500. There is some software link that is activated when the MB branded V60 is inserted in its cradle. It is probably just a firmware thing that is proprietary to either Motorola or MB, but it exists.

If you want an inexpensive alternative to the dealer installed phone, there are folks selling MB v60s on eBay all the time. However, you will still have to pay for the cradle and connection functionality, and I am not sure if you can pay your dealer for certain pieces and not others. As far as I know, the whole thing is a package in itself, and the only option is the voice recognition module.

By the way, Jeff, you are a good voice of reason in this ocean of discontent. In all my annoyance with MB (vented on this board) I forget how much I truly love my E. Can one be in love with their car ?

Also, I just wanted to point out though, that since your phone was not pre-ordered, you will likely pay close to $2600 when all is said and done. That was what I was charged for my phone since I asked for it after I picked up my car off of the lot. I remember posting about it here because I thought the option was under two grand, but everyone here pointed out that that only applies to factory-fitted units. Oh well, I think it is money well spent--just the convenience and safety factors make it worth it.

tmangus

I have the MB motorola V60 phone kit installed in my 03 E500 and the V60c Verizon phone and my V60i from AT&T both work with the system. Only problem is the auto on feature. Start car first and then insert the phone in the cradle. It will recognize the phone and work until the car is turned off and then back on. The MB V60 phone has a different power activation circuit to recognize the phone being in the car. I also paid for the Voice recognition piece that is on technical delay and the NAV that is on Technical delay.

03 E500 Obsidian black/ Charcoal sport PKG. E2, E3, Drive dynamic, parktronics,active vented seats, power trunk closer, split rear seats, V60 phone. Tire pressure monitor, Rear and side sunshades,

monakh

I tried that very procedure with an AT&T, a Verizon Wirelesss and a Cingular phone, and none of them worked no matter what I did. I remember turning them on and putting them in the cradle after I started the car (on different occasions). This is the first I have heard of anyone using a non-MB phone in the cradle. Anyone else have successful expereinces like this?

northbenz

tmangus - to my recollection you are the first person I have noticed lists the power trunk closer as an option on your E. How useful has it been? Do you recommend it? Is it just one more electronic thing to break down when the car gets out of warranty or is it really that useful of a feature? I've been debating adding it to my order but would really appreciate hearing from someone who has lived with it firstl.

tmangus

I originally did not order this car with power trunk closer, I had an order for this car without it and the dealer found this car in another state and had it dealer transfered to get it to me quicker and did not charge me for the option. Otherwise it was exactly what I had on order. It is more of a toy than anything else, The power trunk closer wants to be used with the buttons and not by manually closing the trunk. If someone tries to manually close the trunk, it will lock out the power system for a while until it does a auto-reset, Because you are actually turning the actuator motor manually, there is a lot of resistance on the trunk lid. I like it, I am a gadget person.... I have almost everything on this car. Sticker was $68,200.


03 E500 Obsidian black/ Charcoal sport PKG. E2, E3, Drive dynamic, parktronics,active vented seats, Keyless Go,power trunk closer, split rear seats, V60 phone. Tire pressure monitor, Rear and side sunshades,