W Cole

I know this is probably a stretch but has anyone done this before? Is an engine hoist required? It appears that you could just support the engine by the oil pan?

I bottomed my car (2004 E320) out and very minorly bent the front subframe. Im pretty sure I have been driving like this for several months and haven't noticed it so I could probably leave it, but I'd like to fix it if I can.

Any help would be appreciated,

sosh

This is not a DIY backyard repair. Have it done correctly by professionals.

mbuskuhl

Have MB dealer fix it and file a claim with your insurance company, they will pay. It doesn't have to be a body panel that is damaged for insurance to pay during an accident. Bent subframe or bent wheels even qualify - of course the damage should exceed your deductible and since the claim will be relatively minor rates should not be affected.

W Cole

Got the new subframe in, supported the engine by the engine pan with a bottle jack. Fairly easy job.

Does anyone have a DIY for the thrust arm bushings? Mine are completely shot. Whats the trick for getting the ball joint out of where it connects to the (steering knuckle?). A big hammer? I fear a pickle fork would destroy the ball joint and since I dont plan on replacing the whole arm I dont want to do that.

Also, do the complete arms from mercedes come with the bushings already pressed in? It may be easier just to buy the arms so I dont have to deal with pressing the bushings in and out.

Eich

Wow. Did you take any pictures of the job to share ?

W Cole

I took some quick ones on my iPhone. I'll try to post them. I haven't put the suspension back together yet so I can take some more. Have been busy replacing the engine and transmission mounts which would have been 1000x easier with the subframe out but I wasn't comfortable getting under the car with only a jack supporting the engine.

vettdvr

See,, I knew you could do it. Even a mercedes is a piece of machinery. Glad you got it out. Pics and write up would be nice also.

BTW,, I also think ins would pay for damages if you hit something and damaged it.

moparrbust

Easy job if you know what you're doing or are mechanically inclined...........did you pre-load the suspension before tightening all the bolts for the suspension parts that bolt to the cradle?

W Cole

Ill try to get some pics. I wish I would have gotten some pics of the subframe actually coming out of the car but I was too busy to take any.

I haven't tightened the suspension back up yet. But when I do I'll want to tighten it with the car sitting on the ground in order to minimize any force on the bushings, correct? I kind of remember what angle the arms were at before (lower control arm was in its neutral position when connected to the front strut) but my car is lowered significantly so when the suspension is compressed all of the arms will want to sit at a far different angle than stock. So I guess I should account for this?

My car is a 2004 that is now out of warranty - are there any service bulletins or any chance that mercedes will foot the bill for the thrust arm bushing swap? If not I will have to take my thrust arms over to my buddys garage and try to use his hydraulic press to press out the bushings.

pinebaron

Take your pick or similar for ball joint tool.

http://www.technictool.com/mercedes.htm Look for M211-0068
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...=Y&origin=prod

W Cole

Hah! I just realized I have almost an identical one from harbor freight. I'll have to try it out. Thanks

Also, FYI I read that because the ball joints are conical (tighten as they are pressed into the arm) a tap from the side helps release them.

sosh

Wonder if this guy will disclose when he sells his W211 that he replaced a major structural component in his back yard with little erquipment and no knowledge of how to do it?? Also wonder how badly the oil pan was distorted when he rested the weight of the entire engine on it with a bottle jack. Gee I don't think this will be on the carfax.

vettdvr

Would not know. But I forgot to disclose on my 64 corvette I pulled the engine, transmission and complete front end apart for total rebuild to factory spec. Oh,, forgot to also disclose I primed, let cure out for 30 days, then put 8 coats of red lacquer paint with each coat water sanded.

I do believe that there are people who can do quality work at home and do the same level as a professional. Granted I have seen some hacks also,, In our corvette club there are many excellent of home repairs that compete in NCRS events.

Who workes on your corvette?

sosh

As you already know I have a Corvette also but it in fact is a much less complicated vehicle than a W211. The Vette in fact is very basic and pulling an engine while being "bull work" is quite simple. Removing and replacing a sub frame is a major repair and with today's vehicles require special tooling and education tp perform many of these jobs. Just from the questions the OP posed I do not believe he is very adept at this sort of thing. What he did lowered the value of his vehicle significantly and in my mind made it unsalable if disclosed. If it is not disclosed it is fraudulent.

gnma

Glad to hear u're progressing in your work. Obviously you have mechanical skills and bodywork skills. Just like the Corvette owner said above, there are many car clubs out there with many enthusiasts that work on their own car. Us Supra owners pull engines, trannies etc. in our backyards too. Granted, the W211 is not an "enthusiasts" car, but check out the AMG section for excitement, and plenty of DIY work tips there too.

Good luck with the fix and pics would be appreciated!

dsm2925

subframe replacement is my next weekend project --- ahhh.

any pointers?

vettdvr

I guess my C5 corvette with ride control, memory seats, LS1,traction control, Rear tranny is pretty simple when I think about it. I am sure it is much less complex than my E500.

After all they BOTH are Machines!

W Cole

You're making several incorrect assumptions about my skill level. I am MUCH more confident in my work than that of a mechanic at a dealer who has no personal investment in the quality of work that he performs on my car.

I'm not sure what in my original post would lead you to draw these wild conclusions but based upon your other comments I am not surprised.

You are incorrect if you think that pulling an engine out of a C5 corvette is easier than replacing a W211 subframe. My father and his friend have three C5 vettes that they drive at both the track and drag strip. I have removed the engines from all three. I am confused how you say these are different kinds of work? And how a simple subframe R&R is more difficult? You seem to be way off base.

I understand from a one paragraph post on an internet forum you can not even come close to judging my ability at anything and trying to do so would be insane so I'm not going to take your comments personally.

W Cole

I did this in my friends garage complete with lift, three axis cnc mill, cnc lathe. Who said anything about the backyard? I can post some photos of the garage if you like

Obviously I didn't rest the engine directly on the bottle jack. There was very little force on the actual pan and it was distributed evenly over its entire surface area.

How do you think the mechanics at the dealer replace the engine mounts or in this case, a sub frame? My buddy is a mechanic at Mercedes of South Bay and the omnipotent, superhumanly intelligent Mercedes techs there do the engine mounts the same way. I suppose you thought they used their magical levitation abilities? I know they try to con the dimwitted into believing that they are the only source for maintenance on a Mercedes and proven by youself they are amazingly successful.

Did I mention that my neigbor who is an avid hot rodder, engine builder, and has been a chief engineer for the X planes at Boeing for the past two decades stopped by and gave me his advice on how to support the engine? I didn't know if I should trust him though.. I probably should have gotten advice from the local high school dropouts that work as Mercedes techs at the local dealer? (No offense to these guys I have the utmost respect for anyone who does this kind of work). Or maybe I should have deferred judegment until I received advice from unsubstantiated internet sources such as yourself who it appears have forgotten to take their lithium pills?

W Cole

You have PM

emilner

You need to chill out. He replaced a subframe, not the ENTIRE frame. I have done it on other vehicles and I would never imagine it significantly dropping a vehicle's worth.

I suppose if you bent a rim and had it fixed you would not disclose that to a potential buyer? Even though the suspension might have been bent in the process?

As long as it is fixed to spec then there is no reason to question it. Reminds me of all of the fear on this forum for DIY brakes. These cars are the easiest vehicles to change brakes on, but b/c its MB people think they are mechanically untouchable...

sosh

Your original post caused me to draw the conclusions by the questions you asked and the fact that you supported the engine by the pan with a bottle jack. This is not good. As for my Corvette, its a C2 not a C5. Be accurate!! With regard to the dealership techs, at least where I do business they have an investment in turning out good work, if it comes back they must repair free, at years end they get a bonus based upon customer satisfaction and the lack of come backs. Average tenure for a tech there is 15 years. Could be that they have more of an incentive than you do in your profession. As for being the craziest person on this board, I sincerely doubt it. Guess you are a shade tree shrink also.

W Cole

These techs are not as skilled or detail oriented as you may think. I got my car back once after a warranty repair of the right rear shock, got on the freeway and after 15 or so minutes heard a "thump thump" noise coming from the right rear. I immediately pulled over and found that I was missing a lug bolt and another 2 were completely loose and ready to fall out. They had forgotten to torque down my wheel.

The techs rarely use torque wrenches. On the other end of the spectrum they have repeatidly overtorqued the lugs on all of my wheels by using an impact gun at full strength bad enough to damage the threads in the hub. And they are constantly breaking or losing little fasteners such as the ones used on the interior pieces.

If you're experienced mechanically you are better off doing it yourself.

W Cole

What better method would you propose to support the engine? I have been using this method to support engines, transmissions, differentials, and subframes for years. But if a better one exists I would obviously prefer to adopt it.

emilner

The key is using a platform of wood or something in between the bottle jack and the pan. I'm sure you did that, some people need it spelled out exactly or they can't see it...