vettdvr

You have to access the data look at your car, decide what risk you are willing to take then make the decision what to do with the car.

Silly_me

Is that your only reason? A few grand to replace, arguably, the most sophisticated braking system on the market, seems like small potatoes versus paying for an all new car..... I do agree though that there should have been a failsafe installed somewhere between point A and B......

gnma

gnma

99% of the owners here who have experienced such a failure claim there is VERY LITTLE braking force left to stop the car. Now, imagine SBC brake failure at 55 mph on the highway. The cost of a tragic, catastrophic, accident would far outweigh buying a new car. One could sue MB, the NTSB would investigate, and chances are the customer would win, but would that replace all that were lost in the accident? It is this scenario which has me contemplating dumping my car -its really a shame, bec apart from the SBC system, the car is amazing...

Reading the failures on this forum - it is a miracle, that no one reported a accident, and that all were able to bring the car to a stop, albeit with very little braking power....

Out of curiosity, what happens when a conventional braking system equipped car has brake failure? Is the braking power the same, somewhat mitigated, or is it just as bad as the SBC system - I can't imagine the latter?

Silly_me

Yeah, I've not heard of any Toyotastophy such incidents with SBC....

If power assist goes on a conventional system you have to stand on the brakes to get the system to work at all. I have not had SBC fail but forum members on here have said it is worse than that, YMMV.

gnma

Wow, that's the famous warning light I hope I never see....

Are you 100% sure about this???? Any idea how many actuations, and can this info. be obtained from the dealer once the car is hooked up to STAR?

WEBSRFR

Just buy shares in companies that mine gold

Dexion

There are a few sources on the internet that mention 300,000 actuations.thats about an avg of 3 "groans" a mile for me which is about right. The dealership can only see when its time for it to be replaced. kinda like the + on the FSS when pads are past 50% wear.

I do not think this is the case for me however, when that happens you get a FSS display along something of the lines of "Brakes - Visit Workshop" mine just completely died along with the backup system... Wierd thing is it will make a noise for about 2 mins if I try and hit the brakes. Sounds like its trying to activate but it cant.

vettdvr

Safety and braking is a good enough stand alone failure to make you want to sell the car.

However if you want the reasons there are way too many failures to list but just a few.

Airmatic compressor failure, rear air springs, engine mounts, ball joints, how water valve, ac hoses, and the list goes on and on.

Dexion

After i dropped the car off yesterday at 2:30.... fast foward to today 4:30pm, Got a call from Jose Mena, my SA @ Mercedes of Nanuet in Nanuet, NY. Told me car is ready to be picked up, they dropped in a new SBC unit and there are no charges to me....[edit]Here is exactly what the RO said"checked codes SBC C223D, C25D6, C23BD, C233D, C268B. Hydraulic fault in pressure supply, performed guided test replaced SBC unit, performed bleed brake system."Honestly it looks like they had the olderlooks like ill be riding happily again with my nice shiny new SBC pump

ashg2000

Had 'Service Breaks - Visit Workshop' on the display on my 2003 E320 with 62,000 miles. MB dealer changed the SBC pump and service free of charge under extended 10 years / unlimited miles warranty on the SBC system. Thanks to the forum.

gnma

I can't imagine what repair costs will be once the 10 yr. warranty expires - in about a year from now with the '03's......

bernard farquar

crap.

vettdvr

[QUOTE=bernard farquar;4936974]crap.[/QUOTE

doogie8558

My 2003 e320 has 100,700 on it and my sbc pump just went bad. Unfortunately for me, the car was purchased in August of 2002 so the extended warranty is expired (ain't that a kick in the head?). They quoted me a price of $810 for the pump and 2.5 hours labor for a total of $1065. My guy did say he was going to call MB and see if something couldn't get worked out.

Tschuss_Bill

Wow, that's not bad! Others have quoted in the several 1000's to replace out of warranty.

The brake system functions amazingly, I will say that.

bunke

Have you heard back from MB? I bought my E320 in Nov 2002. I think I have the same problem and am taking it in to the dealer tomorrow. I hope they will help help me given that it is only 2 months past the 10 yr limit and have less than 70,000 miles.

doogie8558

I pick my car up tomorrow. The service guy hadn't contacted them yet but he wasn't optimistic since it had over 100k (I sure hope he contacted them). I will let you know tomorrow.

doogie8558

No good on MB covering anything. I guess there has to be a line in the sand somewhere. The thing is that pump has been making a noise since I bought the car a year and a half ago. It was maybe going bad then? $1200 bones out the door. Oh well, back to work tomorrow.

ozusa

It was normal for the SBC pump to make noise. It is, after all, a pump.

cobra101

Not too old of a thread..I guess but so pertinent to my situation..

Got the Brake-visit workshop last few days: (NOT the red warning to stop driving)

1. is there a code that would indicate it is sbc pump/issue related for sure? and with that guarantee a dealer would warranty it?

2. Can I bring in the car and just state I want the sbc system updated now (or at anytime) as it was a defective system that has been documented? I would think so, as if I don't get updated it is only a matter of time before my brakes cut out at any speed.

3. Should I be scared?

Car still drives fine just that message pops up on every startup.

Ps. I may just drive into the local dealer and ask to inspect my sbc system, hopefully that would be no charge? LOL

Frank I.

I just joined and am very new to this forum. I've posted this in a different forum but I thought I should share this unwanted brake failure experience especially it can be avoided by MBZ long ago when keeping safety in mine in designing the brake system or at least do something good to remedy the situation immediately after discovering this serious design flaw. Just want to relate a "RED visit workshop" warning experience that I had last month(Oct 2013).

My car is a 2003(January) e500 with less than 69000 mi. Without previous warning on any issue, I got the Red visit workshop warning and I immediately lost about 80-90% of braking power in that cool morning. I turned off and on the ignition 2-3 more times then the RED indicator went away. I did not want to take a chance driving it around. 2 days later I took it in to a dealer that I use for the last 20 years- 18 mi away (no problem driving it there). The dealer said its the SBC pump that needed replacing. (I heard that it has a, forgive my German not French, "stupid" useful life of 300,000 depressions and I confirmed this with the dealer.). I also heard it has an extended warranty of 10 years but mine is 9 months over.

The bill would be $2400 to replace the SBC. So I called the MBZ head office back east to see if they can help me out. The mail operator, not patient nor friendly, took my call and said it will be handled by a case manager. They would call me back with a decision. Days went by and no one called me back. So my second call to them revealed that my case was sitting in their computer and no one was working on it. TIME WASTED. This time they got me a case manager on the phone and work on it right a way when I mentioned to her that this is my 6 MBZ in 20 years (4 in the last 6 years alone and the last purchase was only 2 month ago in September). 2 days later the dealer called and offered to pay for the replacement part(SBC pump) but wanted me to help pay for labor cost. To cut the prolong hassle, We finally agreed on <$600 out of my pocket = 1/4 of $2400 or so.

The recall that people think or mentioned online is not a true mandatory recall. Dealer and MBZ USA said if you have a problem, then they will fix it within 10 years...

I am shock that this brake safety issue is not a total mandatory recall by MBZ USA, especially if the SBC is designed to cut off the braking capability(without warning) when it reaches 300,000 brake depressions. I am sure MBZ knew of this serious design flaw. That is why I was told that this particular brake system was in use for only 3-4 years in the US. - until about 2005-2006 or so. Hmm!! if it is a good system, why discontinued.

Hope this helps when anyone needs to deal with MBZ USA. Patiently wait and you may get someone to call you back.

konigstiger

Do not understand how one would misinterpret Extended Warranty for Recall nevertheless, correct SBC hydraulic pump warranty extends to 10 years/unlimited mileage from vehicle’s initial delivery date. Check your PM.

Frank I.

Yes, it was kind of confusing to me because different forums mentioned recall(with recall number) then some said it was extended warranty for 10 years. Then there was a MBZ recall letter that I found online. That's why I hv to contact MBZ USA directly to clarify. Because, to me, recall would be to bring the car in to be fixed, usually without charge, regardless of how long you have owned the car.

Any how, the faulty SBC has been replaced, that's what matters, even though I think MBZ should bear all the cost in fixing this potential faulty safety device. I ended up paying for the labor because I just want the car back, because it was sitting at the dealer for over a week(on a job that should take a day or less)while waiting for MBZUSA to respond. And a few days were wasted because the inefficient computer system/human set my case aside without passing it on to higher level for consideration.


Thank you for responding and have a Happy Thanksgiving.

vettdvr

To me warranty doesn't matter. Driving a system that can shut down at any time with no advance warning is unacceptable. If this were my plane the FAA would have me grounded. I consider the SBC system totally unacceptable. IT left my wife on the side of the highway waiting for a tow truck with a full red panel warning and back up brakes if you can call the back up brake system brakes vs might slow me down's.