charliele729

Web, how do you know you are affected? Is your CEL on?

WEBSRFR

I know I am "affected" by the serial number. The engine has not failed yet but from everything I have read it is only a matter of time so that's why I mentioned that I am going to look into have this fixed BEFORE it causes actual damage because it is very obvious that this will eventually damage the gears.

I don't see the point in waiting until the engine fails. This should be an interesting conversation with the dealer and MBUSA...

I basically don't want this issue to actually manifest itself with an inoperable engine at a bad time or when I'm far away from civilization.

220S

fwiw, here's what I recall BMW did in regards to their subframe class action suit 10 years ago with the 3 series. It was also an issue that didn't raise its ugly head until later on and past the original warranty period. Not all cars suffered the issue and it was partly based on VIN runs.

The class action suit offered the settlement that BMW would inspect all 3 series vehicles free of charge and decide it the car needed the repair. Once the owner did that, then BMW had done its part in respect to the settlement. But if the owner had signed on to the CA suit, and the issue showed up later on (despite BMW inspecting and doing the repair) then BMW had no more liability.

Many 3 series owners decided to settle with the CA suit. The idea was that BMW might find it didn't need the repair but in fact the issue could show up eventually. They felt by not accepting the settlement that they could force BMW to do the repair (when the issue actually did show up on their car) since it was a known issue and BMW admitted it. Apparently it worked and owners who pressured BMW to fix later outside of the CA suit were getting their cars fixed.

These kinds of issues where the problem may not show up for a long time are always tricky. That's why I say document everything right now and keep records of all your inquiries at the dealer. And monitor the CA suit. Hopefully MB will just add an extended warranty to anything that fails due to this issue. Like they did with SBC in the pre-face lift W211s.

Although my car has the M156 motor, I empathize with you folks. I went through the same thing with Volvo and their notorious ETM fiasco that they finally fessed up to (Google Volvo+ETM for laughs.) But all they could do was change the part when it failed. It's not comfortable knowing something will fail even if it is covered in the end.

This will be an issue with resale, and people looking to buy used W211s will be always asking if the repair is done or will the issue be covered for the second or third owner, etc.. This design problem stuff that only appears down the road can really blacklist cars in the resale market. Not fun.

WEBSRFR

Thanks for sharing. Good info to know.

Yes I am amusingly looking forward to what direction my conversation with MBUSA/SA is going to go about trying to get them to replace this part before it fails inside the engine.

I feel like I've bought a boat with a hole on the bottom.

Me: But why don't you please fix the hole? It is slowly casuing the boat to sink and that can't be good. What if I'm in the middle of the ocean when the thing sinks for good?

MBUA: Well that's what the three pointed star is for. When the boat sinks you can tread water and use the three pointed star as a signaling device to call for help because it is so nice and shiny and reflects sunlight quite well.

Me:

charliele729

When I was talking to my SA about this issue regards to my car, he was fully aware of it. He also said that he can't do anything about it until the CEL comes up, because not all cars will be affected the same way. He also said that, the engine will not suffer any damage if it taken care of promply besides the timing being off, the damage is when people decide to drive on it even when the CEL is on for a long period of time.

SteveC325

So... the problem that I have with that perspective is, regardless of "what" happens, it happens because of a known defect. Since they know exactly what the defect is, it could be corrected before failure.

It seems, based on what I understand about the problem, that it's not an "if it will happen", rather it is a "when it will happen" problem.

How that translates into a "we have to wait and see" approach, confuses me?

WEBSRFR

That was my point. It is a defect and the part will fail. Do I really need to be stranded somewhere with an inoperable car due to a well known defective part in the engine before this can get fixed? Doesn't seem right. I consider this a safety issue.

220S

And that is why there's a CA suit brewing. In the meantime you cannot convince MB to fix anything that "technically" is not happening (yet.) Yes, it's a known defect but they are not admitting that it may affect all cars and in the same way. This is nothing new, the costs to pull in every affected car in the world to address the issue is astronomical. They will want to avoid that and if the CA suit proceeds, then they'll offer a settlement that is arbitrated and decided upon.

Whether that settlement is to your satisfaction is not guaranteed. And that's why some BMW owners decided not to jump onto the CA suit and instead push (and sue individually) BMW to fix their cars. They did have the fact that BMW admitted design flaw on their side.

That's why I mentioned all you can do right now is document and record all communication, and watch the progress of the CA suit.

Unfortunately MB will not fix something that isn't bad now, even if it's going to go bad. Same with SBC. They didn't remove it from the cars (they did after the W211 facelift), instead they just extended the warranty on that component(s); Volvo did the same with their ETM failure. BMW is currently doing the same with their HPFP failures. It's "replace and fix when it happens" and not "preemptive action." The cars will be fixed for free but not until they fail.

In the meantime, if you have the stomach for it (and the time) you can press MBUSA for goodwill and try to get them to replace before it fails. But that would be short of a miracle at this stage.

smokersteve

Has MB updated the part? or do they just replace it with the old model part?

konigstiger

272 engine up to Serial # 30 468993 or 273 engine up 30 088611 material for the balance shaft sprocket and the timing chain guide wheel (idler) was modified on engines past these serial #s.

ktm950se

Greetings konigstiger,
While my car's engine # is higher than the one you mentioned for Fault Code #1, it is within range for Fault Code #2 and #3.
While the flat rate for these camshaft adjustment solenoid changes if not very long (no engine R&R), is there any possible engine damage that could occur if one (or more) of these solenoids was to malfunction?

ktm950se

FraKctured

My CEL came on a few weeks ago, and they replaced the R. intake Solenoid (approx. $200). CEL came back on within 10 minutes of driving. SA told me that it could be the balance shaft sprocket, which it now seems is definitely the culprit. Like in your case, he also told that there were "many" of these that they fixed under warranty, but now there are some trickling in after the warranty is up (that's me--I'm 16K miles past warranty). I sent the SA, the salesman, the GM, and the Service Manager at the dealership the class action brief along with several websites that describe the issue. They are now talking to MB to see what they will offer. I also contacted Dalton Law Firm (who is handling the CA suit), but haven't heard back from them yet.

It will be interesting to see what the response is to this from both MB and from the dealer. How will they treat a loyal customer, devoted MB enthusiast?

I've attached the class action suit filing and the repair instructions (which explains how much time is involved with this repair and why it is so expensive).

Here is the firm that is handling the class action suit:
Dalton Law Firm

Here are some related sites (there are many of these online that have the same text):
Class Action Suit Reference #1
Class Action Suit Reference #2

(Some of these are found elsewhere on this thread, but I thought I'd assemble in one place to make it easy to find).

Sportstick

I was discussing this with my Service Advisor today, and he was able to immediately inform me of my engine serial number. Once I heard that the middle set of digits was "31" and not "30", I did not take further notes, as I understand I am beyond the group in risk. (If I've misunderstood, please, anyone, let me know). This engine is installed in a 2008 E350, with a vehicle build date of May, 2008.

FraKctured

To get the serial number of your engine (and other info) if you are in the USA (for those of you who are) you can subscribe to the MBUSA Electronic Parts Catalog free for North American models. $12 per year for world wide - handy if you have a gray market car.


Go to http://epc.startekinfo.com/epc/welcome.jsp

They ask for a credit card, but do not charge for North American models.

I would be skeptical of the effected serial numbers listed. This is an expensive repair, and the source of the serial numbers is not identified very well.

FRANK222

What kind of bull****. A car that has a ton of water leaking in it. If they can't fix it for a reasonable price, I am going without driving a junk mercedes. Spend all that money for a car and it can't keep out the water. No one should be buying these expensive cars if you are going to get jerked when they "service" the car.

FraKctured

[QUOTE=sdifox;4525314]I wonder if this will go anywhere

http://classactionlawsuitsinthenews....-m273-engines/

Been talking to MB Zone rep about this. Sent her the lawsuit filing from 2010 (see my previous post to read the file) and she told me she contacted MB legal team and they told her that this suit was "thrown out" of court. Dalton Law Firm is assembling a new group of claimants to file a class action suit.

FraKctured

Received offer today. Out of warranty by 26K miles, MB will cover everything except $1000, which means they're on the hook for somewhere around $6000. I consider that to be very reasonable given the circumstances.

This is what I expect a decent corporation to do when they make a mistake. Admit error, and cover 85% of the cost to fix.

ecaman77

Not bad at all, I am glad that things went well for you FraKctured.

I bought my Wife a 2007 C230 and it falls on the list of the engines with the weak balancer material. (This drives me a bit crazy sometimes)

I had an extended warranty of 6 years and or 100 thousand miles (Currently at 50 Thousand). I often wonder how Mercedes Benz would handle that if and when the engine in my wifes car codes? When I found out about this, just before my extended warranty expired. I called MB of North America and I explained to them how frustraded I was to find out about that my wifes car was, and could be affected by this issue in the future and at that point while out of warranty; At that point I was told that they take care of the customers out of Loyalty.

I just hope to come out good if I run into this fiasco.


Cheers

FraKctured

Just got my car back, after 5 weeks in the shop. They replaced valve cover gasket, gears, timing chain, and a host of other items (partial invoice is 6 pages long). SA told me that total cost would have been upwards of $12,000. I paid $1,000 and if they do a recall, I'll be refunded that money.
The balance shaft sprocket didn't have teeth, it had nubs, so there must have been a significant loss of power over the last few years as it wore down.
I was amazed when I drove it out of the dealership. It's like driving a new car. There is significantly more power and it is shifting up and down without any of those odd stutters I was feeling last summer (and trying to convince myself that I was imagining it).

Anyway, a big to Mercedes for taking care of a longterm customer like this.

P.S. I had a 2011 C300 4Matic as a loaner the whole time, put 3000 miles on it with holiday travel--free of charge of course! I wrote about that in another post if you want to read my comparison of the W204s I've driven as loaners with my W203.

WEBSRFR

Glad MB did what was right. The CEL light of my 2007 E550 came on a few months ago and the same repair was done on my car. My CPO warranty picked up the tab. I got my car back in 3 days... This is going to affect a bunch of people before all is said and done and I think it is going to be shocking for those who are not expecting it.

PortAxePlayer1

Hey Guys, i have had my '06 E350 For About 6 months, how can i know if the Balance Shaft issue was fixed ?

starbrite

Easy, go to your local dealer and ask for a VMI (vehicle master inquiry).

It will show all work done on your vehicle.

Edit : never mind, I just saw your other post re being a U.S. car in Labanon.

PortAxePlayer1

One Dealership For The Whole country, indie mechanics are better equipped than the dealer!

starbrite

You may have luck emailing an MB dealer here in the U.S.

ah3823

So how close and how probable do you guys think a recall is? I have a extended warranty with American Auto Shield and I got my transfer case replaced a couple of months ago. I never want to go through a claim with the warranty company again. My E550 drives good and I just put about 94,500 miles on it but this whole engine thing is scaring the crap out of me. I had checked if my engine was an affected engine in a russian website database I had found on MBworld and my numbers fell in the range. By the way, if anybody has the website handy, I would appreciate if you post it.

Re Transfer Case: The warranty company only put in a remanufactured transfer case in my car and Mercedes White Plains would not accept it. After 10 days at Mercedes WP, I took it to a reputable shop, Rennsport USA in Bedford NY for the repair. I had to pay an extra $400 out of pocket because the indies hourly charge was more than what contract covered at $100 per hour plus a $100 deductible. I got soo disgusted that I wanted to sell the car soo badly but after I got it back and it ran nice and smooth, I want to keep it until the next problem occurs which I hope wont be for a long time.