The dreaded M272 Balance Shaft
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
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2006 Mercedes C230 Sport
I hope someone finds this helpful.
Even if your M272 engine serial number falls within the range of those with bad balance shafts DOES NOT automatically mean it is bad!!
Here is an easy way to check. Rotate the engine to TDC (tope dead center) which is when the 305 mark on the crank pulley lines up with the arrow or mark on the engine block above the crank pulley. You will need a 19mm socket and long breaker bar. These marks are hard to see if you have an older vehicle with 150K miles like mine so I had to mark it with craft paint for future reference haha.
Once you do the that remove camshaft position sensors (I think it is two or three 10mm bolts). Look inside to see if the markings are all within the circle. If they are, CONGRATS!!!! You don't have a bad balance shaft. See youtube video below!!
Here is an easy way to check. Rotate the engine to TDC (tope dead center) which is when the 305 mark on the crank pulley lines up with the arrow or mark on the engine block above the crank pulley. You will need a 19mm socket and long breaker bar. These marks are hard to see if you have an older vehicle with 150K miles like mine so I had to mark it with craft paint for future reference haha.
Once you do the that remove camshaft position sensors (I think it is two or three 10mm bolts). Look inside to see if the markings are all within the circle. If they are, CONGRATS!!!! You don't have a bad balance shaft. See youtube video below!!
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
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2007 cls550
This is helpful but it doesn’t mean that you don’t have a bad balance shaft. This means that you haven’t jumped timing yet.
The scope of the gear is the only way to check. Or pull the timing cover of course but then you would be fixing the problem.
The scope of the gear is the only way to check. Or pull the timing cover of course but then you would be fixing the problem.
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
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From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
I hope someone finds this helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXQArmxXsnM
Even if your M272 engine serial number falls within the range of those with bad balance shafts DOES NOT automatically mean it is bad!!
Even if your M272 engine serial number falls within the range of those with bad balance shafts DOES NOT automatically mean it is bad!!
I have read nearly all the posts, bulletins and websites on the balance shaft and have yet to read of a motor jumping teeth,
its not the balance shaft sprocket that keeps the timing.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
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2006 Mercedes C230 Sport
Again, I think if the circles are in the center when you take off cam position sensors then the issue is likely the sensors themselves and not the balance shaft.
What do you mean it just means you haven't jumped timing yet? If the balance shaft was bad or damaged, I believe the timing gears on the balance shaft would be worn and timing would've already jumped. I could be wrong but I checked mine with this method, then changed the appropriate camshaft position sensors on the bank that throwing the code (I think it was one on each side but don't remember if it was the sensor exhaust or intake). That cleared the codes and I haven't seen them in 18 months (Knock on wood).
Last edited by Travis Ceccacci; Aug 30, 2018 at 02:32 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
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2007 cls550
You guys are both right and the cam position sensors needing replacement throws in another variable.
Assuming those are good you can chug along and do nothing until the codes throw. Then in an emergency you need to schedule a repair.
I decided not to wait and did mine at my convenience.
The balance shaft does affect timing though. What happens is the gear wears down and the tensioner exceeds its limit. The cam gears get out of sync and there go the codes. Make sense?
so the video posted is correct that you don’t have the problem now by checking the windows but it doesn’t mean that you won’t get it.
Assuming those are good you can chug along and do nothing until the codes throw. Then in an emergency you need to schedule a repair.
I decided not to wait and did mine at my convenience.
The balance shaft does affect timing though. What happens is the gear wears down and the tensioner exceeds its limit. The cam gears get out of sync and there go the codes. Make sense?
so the video posted is correct that you don’t have the problem now by checking the windows but it doesn’t mean that you won’t get it.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 909
Likes: 64
2007 cls550
Btw the cam sensors leak and the o rings get old and are known problems. They are relatively easy to replace so no sense in waiting on that. Save money by not needing to do that in an emergency and order at the best price.
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Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
You guys are both right and the cam position sensors needing replacement throws in another variable.
Assuming those are good you can chug along and do nothing until the codes throw. Then in an emergency you need to schedule a repair.
I decided not to wait and did mine at my convenience.
The balance shaft does affect timing though. What happens is the gear wears down and the tensioner exceeds its limit. The cam gears get out of sync and there go the codes. Make sense?
so the video posted is correct that you don’t have the problem now by checking the windows but it doesn’t mean that you won’t get it.
Assuming those are good you can chug along and do nothing until the codes throw. Then in an emergency you need to schedule a repair.
I decided not to wait and did mine at my convenience.
The balance shaft does affect timing though. What happens is the gear wears down and the tensioner exceeds its limit. The cam gears get out of sync and there go the codes. Make sense?
so the video posted is correct that you don’t have the problem now by checking the windows but it doesn’t mean that you won’t get it.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 909
Likes: 64
2007 cls550
Hey Shack is back and reading up on this now. Of course it could jump a tooth. Just think about it. The chain would eventually have too much slack.
This doesn’t typically happen though because the codes throw that the cam(s) position is out of range first and people get it fixed.
With a balance shaft engine the teeth on the balance shaft gear worn down would cause it to jump timing and now you have more problems.
This doesn’t typically happen though because the codes throw that the cam(s) position is out of range first and people get it fixed.
With a balance shaft engine the teeth on the balance shaft gear worn down would cause it to jump timing and now you have more problems.
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
Reading up on it now. LMAO
Even with the teeth gone, there isnt enough slack. Ill post a pic of mine so you know what we are talking about.
Show me a incident where this has happened?
Last edited by Shack1; Aug 30, 2018 at 03:50 PM.
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
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From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
Whats your deal with HAVING to be right? I love that you showed me a pic of what I just showed you. That's not the timing gear, would it matter if it jumped a tooth on the balance shaft?
Last edited by Shack1; Aug 30, 2018 at 04:53 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
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2007 cls550
Shack1,
I’m not trying to be a dik. I just don’t want people inspecting the cam windows and walking away that they don’t have the balance shaft problem because it happens to be in alignment that day. The post above sort of implies that.
Regarding timing. There isn’t a specific timing gear here. You seem hung up on that and are trying to disregard the importance of the balance shaft itself and the fact that it is a critical part of timing on these engines.
The balance shaft has to set in relation to the cam gears and crank. The weight has to be rotated to a mark and the chain has a link to line up. Then the crank and cam gears are set. All of this makes up the timing.
If it jumped teeth like it would in the photo the offset weight would spin out of timing and vibrate the engine.
Cool?
I’m not trying to be a dik. I just don’t want people inspecting the cam windows and walking away that they don’t have the balance shaft problem because it happens to be in alignment that day. The post above sort of implies that.
Regarding timing. There isn’t a specific timing gear here. You seem hung up on that and are trying to disregard the importance of the balance shaft itself and the fact that it is a critical part of timing on these engines.
The balance shaft has to set in relation to the cam gears and crank. The weight has to be rotated to a mark and the chain has a link to line up. Then the crank and cam gears are set. All of this makes up the timing.
If it jumped teeth like it would in the photo the offset weight would spin out of timing and vibrate the engine.
Cool?
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
Shack1,
I’m not trying to be a dik. I just don’t want people inspecting the cam windows and walking away that they don’t have the balance shaft problem because it happens to be in alignment that day. The post above sort of implies that.
Regarding timing. There isn’t a specific timing gear here. You seem hung up on that and are trying to disregard the importance of the balance shaft itself and the fact that it is a critical part of timing on these engines.
The balance shaft has to set in relation to the cam gears and crank. The weight has to be rotated to a mark and the chain has a link to line up. Then the crank and cam gears are set. All of this makes up the timing.
If it jumped teeth like it would in the photo the offset weight would spin out of timing and vibrate the engine.
Cool?
I’m not trying to be a dik. I just don’t want people inspecting the cam windows and walking away that they don’t have the balance shaft problem because it happens to be in alignment that day. The post above sort of implies that.
Regarding timing. There isn’t a specific timing gear here. You seem hung up on that and are trying to disregard the importance of the balance shaft itself and the fact that it is a critical part of timing on these engines.
The balance shaft has to set in relation to the cam gears and crank. The weight has to be rotated to a mark and the chain has a link to line up. Then the crank and cam gears are set. All of this makes up the timing.
If it jumped teeth like it would in the photo the offset weight would spin out of timing and vibrate the engine.
Cool?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
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From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Probably why they thought it did not have to be as hardened since there is minimal load.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Shack1,
I’m not trying to be a dik. I just don’t want people inspecting the cam windows and walking away that they don’t have the balance shaft problem because it happens to be in alignment that day. The post above sort of implies that.
Regarding timing. There isn’t a specific timing gear here. You seem hung up on that and are trying to disregard the importance of the balance shaft itself and the fact that it is a critical part of timing on these engines.
The balance shaft has to set in relation to the cam gears and crank. The weight has to be rotated to a mark and the chain has a link to line up. Then the crank and cam gears are set. All of this makes up the timing.
If it jumped teeth like it would in the photo the offset weight would spin out of timing and vibrate the engine.
Cool?
I’m not trying to be a dik. I just don’t want people inspecting the cam windows and walking away that they don’t have the balance shaft problem because it happens to be in alignment that day. The post above sort of implies that.
Regarding timing. There isn’t a specific timing gear here. You seem hung up on that and are trying to disregard the importance of the balance shaft itself and the fact that it is a critical part of timing on these engines.
The balance shaft has to set in relation to the cam gears and crank. The weight has to be rotated to a mark and the chain has a link to line up. Then the crank and cam gears are set. All of this makes up the timing.
If it jumped teeth like it would in the photo the offset weight would spin out of timing and vibrate the engine.
Cool?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 604
Likes: 51
LS400
If the balance shaft sprocket is the soft material and wears out enough to let the chain skip it, that does not mean the other sprockets will lose timing, only if they get jumped as well from a very loose chain or wear just like the balance sprocket. Now that video could show a worn chain condition.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Likes: 1
2006 Mercedes C230 Sport
I think the chances are slim that it just happens to be in time that day if the numbers are within the scope of the cam sensor housing , specifically a 1/360 (like a circle haha) . If you think it's a coincidence then I just have to disagree. I think it's going out on a limb saying it could miss or Jump a tooth on the balance shaft gear/sprocket without throwing off the timing. Really??? Over how many cycles or revolutions? Isnt that the whole point of the crank shaft indicating the cam is in time? I was not implying anything absolute. It takes 5 minutes to check this every couple weeks or months vs ripping apart your engine over a hunch. And its worth throwing a cam sensor at it first if the numbers appear to be dead center in the cam sensor housing and far less invasive. In summary, this is like getting an X ray or MRI to get a sense of what is going on before slicing open the tibiofemoral joint. You just wouldn't do that
Last edited by Travis Ceccacci; Aug 30, 2018 at 10:42 PM.
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
Think about it, none of these cars has jumped a tooth, yet the codes are there telling you something it off! How is that possible, if there is no sensor on the balance shaft? Which I dont think there is.
The sensors are picking up enough of a difference from one cam to the other due with the extra length in the chain from the wear in the sprocket that the tensioner can not compensate for.
The sensors are picking up enough of a difference from one cam to the other due with the extra length in the chain from the wear in the sprocket that the tensioner can not compensate for.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
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From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Remember. These gars have variable valve timing. The sensor is there to feed back to the ECU where the cam is so it can be adjusted. The error is telling you the ECU sees the cam at a position it is not set for. Far less than one tooth off.
The codes tend to show up at cold temps because that is when the cams need to be adjusted the most, and the system runs out of ability to adjust due to slop in the drive chain.
It has NOTHING To do with the chain jumping a tooth one day and not another.
The codes tend to show up at cold temps because that is when the cams need to be adjusted the most, and the system runs out of ability to adjust due to slop in the drive chain.
It has NOTHING To do with the chain jumping a tooth one day and not another.
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CL600
I'm a little lost on the back and fourth here.
if you have both codes and you check your timing mark's and.theyre off, your balance shaft gear is toast
if you have an engine vibration.that is not mount or accessory related, your balance shaft gear is toast
if you have neither of these issues drive your car and be happy. Right?
if you have both codes and you check your timing mark's and.theyre off, your balance shaft gear is toast
if you have an engine vibration.that is not mount or accessory related, your balance shaft gear is toast
if you have neither of these issues drive your car and be happy. Right?
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
I'm a little lost on the back and fourth here.
if you have both codes and you check your timing mark's and.theyre off, your balance shaft gear is toast
if you have an engine vibration.that is not mount or accessory related, your balance shaft gear is toast
if you have neither of these issues drive your car and be happy. Right?
if you have both codes and you check your timing mark's and.theyre off, your balance shaft gear is toast
if you have an engine vibration.that is not mount or accessory related, your balance shaft gear is toast
if you have neither of these issues drive your car and be happy. Right?
