The dreaded M272 Balance Shaft
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 46
Likes: 7
CL600
Certainly wouldn't be a bad idea if you have to pay someone to do the work. The shaft is cheap. No big deal to pull the engine and replace it if you have the ability to do so yourself. I do feel for those who have to find someone they can trust to do the work right and at a fair price.
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
Certainly wouldn't be a bad idea if you have to pay someone to do the work. The shaft is cheap. No big deal to pull the engine and replace it if you have the ability to do so yourself. I do feel for those who have to find someone they can trust to do the work right and at a fair price.
Yeah right, something like less than 5% who own this could do the repair. I had two indy shops turn the job down due to the scope of the repair and the work space taken up for one repair.
Im very well skilled at auto repair but this is well beyond what I could do im my own garage.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 46
Likes: 7
CL600
"No big deal to pull the engine and replace it if you have the ability to do so yourself."
Yeah right, something like less than 5% who own this could do the repair. I had two indy shops turn the job down due to the scope of the repair and the work space taken up for one repair.
Im very well skilled at auto repair but this is well beyond what I could do im my own garage.
Yeah right, something like less than 5% who own this could do the repair. I had two indy shops turn the job down due to the scope of the repair and the work space taken up for one repair.
Im very well skilled at auto repair but this is well beyond what I could do im my own garage.
Fortunately for me my playground is well equipped.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 1,550
From: MA
2008 E350 4Matic, 2011 E350 4matic
"No big deal to pull the engine and replace it if you have the ability to do so yourself."
Yeah right, something like less than 5% who own this could do the repair. I had two indy shops turn the job down due to the scope of the repair and the work space taken up for one repair.
Im very well skilled at auto repair but this is well beyond what I could do im my own garage.
Yeah right, something like less than 5% who own this could do the repair. I had two indy shops turn the job down due to the scope of the repair and the work space taken up for one repair.
Im very well skilled at auto repair but this is well beyond what I could do im my own garage.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 46
Likes: 7
CL600
that's no different than the outcome of any job with unfortunate results. The fact remains, this is not a difficult engine to time.
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 34
Likes: 1
2006 Mercedes C230 Sport
Mine is at 161k miles! If that balance shaft starts vibrating or engine persistently begins throwing p0016 and p0017 then I am throwing in the towel. I get you are very confident in your abilities and it never hurts to have 10,000 dollar lift with a covered work area Haha but please dont make pulling the engine sound so casual. The deepest I've dove is pulling the heads on my 4runner ( finally sold it away at 216k miles, great SUVs!). If this is a 30 hour job for a Mercedes tech then it is easy 45 hours for me. Stupid balance shaft. Soft metal for gears and and plastic pieces for performance (referring to tumbler flaps) c'mon mercedes. That is not the best or nothing!!!
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 46
Likes: 7
CL600
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 46
Likes: 7
CL600
Mine is at 161k miles! If that balance shaft starts vibrating or engine persistently begins throwing p0016 and p0017 then I am throwing in the towel. I get you are very confident in your abilities and it never hurts to have 10,000 dollar lift with a covered work area Haha but please dont make pulling the engine sound so casual. The deepest I've dove is pulling the heads on my 4runner ( finally sold it away at 216k miles, great SUVs!). If this is a 30 hour job for a Mercedes tech then it is easy 45 hours for me. Stupid balance shaft. Soft metal for gears and and plastic pieces for performance (referring to tumbler flaps) c'mon mercedes. That is not the best or nothing!!!
Seriously though, pulling an engine isn't for everyone. But neither a lift nor a covered work area are required. Many people pull them in their driveways with nothing more than regular hand tools and a cheap hoist. Theres a guy with a mercedes channel on youtube who is regularly doing complicated repairs on the street in front of his house. Not how I would choose to do it. Well, it's been 20 years since I chose to do it that way. Lol
My point was that this particular timing repair isn't any more complicated or labor intensive than many of the same repairs on far lesser vehicles. I've got a Ford Explorer sitting around because it needs new guides. It's a total **** job that requires the engine to be pulled, special tools, and a b.s. timing setup with no keyways. Oh yeah, the "special tools" dont actually lock the crank and camshafts in the exact position they should be in. (Cam timing should not be open to interpretation) Totally doable but absolute junk to work on.
I never feel that way when working on Mercedes. Certainly frustrating in the case of the repair we're talking about here, but I know what I've got when it's done, an awesome vehicle worth having.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 909
Likes: 64
2007 cls550
I did this repair myself on a CLS550 and posted about it. That was even easier with the idler gear instead of balance shaft but everything else was the same. I did it in garage and it took 2 months of weekend work when time allowed. No lift so lots of time on the floor.
The post about about it being easy is sort of right. Easy in the sense that every step of the process was straightforward and logical if you have been wrenching on cars for years, follow this forum, have WIS and watch the videos. It was absurdly time consuming though because so many parts had to come off and be labeled and put back perfectly. There were so many steps that could easily be messed up if not understood and followed perfectly. Three torque wrenches too.
A lot of special tools were required and I did the intake manifold flap repair at the same time. I can think of many steps that could so easily be done wrong with disastrous consequences. Stuff as simple as pinning the cam gears or that stupid black sealant going on exact locations in exact widths with only minutes of operating time. What a nightmare.
So the point about it being easy is right in a way that many other cars are way more complicated to pull the engine or to set the timing with thousands of dollars in special tools. This one sure isn’t an easy diy job for most and you better have a hell of a lot of downtime planned if you try it.
If anyone does though and is in AZ I will walk you through it. I bet I could cut 40% off my time now.
The post about about it being easy is sort of right. Easy in the sense that every step of the process was straightforward and logical if you have been wrenching on cars for years, follow this forum, have WIS and watch the videos. It was absurdly time consuming though because so many parts had to come off and be labeled and put back perfectly. There were so many steps that could easily be messed up if not understood and followed perfectly. Three torque wrenches too.
A lot of special tools were required and I did the intake manifold flap repair at the same time. I can think of many steps that could so easily be done wrong with disastrous consequences. Stuff as simple as pinning the cam gears or that stupid black sealant going on exact locations in exact widths with only minutes of operating time. What a nightmare.
So the point about it being easy is right in a way that many other cars are way more complicated to pull the engine or to set the timing with thousands of dollars in special tools. This one sure isn’t an easy diy job for most and you better have a hell of a lot of downtime planned if you try it.
If anyone does though and is in AZ I will walk you through it. I bet I could cut 40% off my time now.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 46
Likes: 7
CL600
Not everyone can do this repair or any repair for that matter. This discussion obviously doesn't apply to those people.
I do feel that noone should ever have to do this or pay for it to be done as it is clearly Mercedes issue and they should repair every one they sold. Its absurd but it's just how it is.
I also dont feel any shop should need to get $5k+ for this. Three hours to get the engine out, three to disassemble, two to clean and inspect, three to reassemble, four to reinstall. Realistic numbers if you do this day in and day out. 15 hours actual time, seasoned techs will do it faster. Book time is what it should take a qualified person to do it the first time.
No reason any shop should need more than 2k to 2.5k to do this job. That explorer I referenced earlier is around $1500 +/-, 40%-60% more for the Mercedes tax should be plenty. Dont know why it's usually not. SMH
Last edited by rbpowered; Sep 1, 2018 at 09:41 AM.
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: England
mercedes cls350
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 535
Likes: 13
From: Franklin, MA
2006 CLK 350/. 2009 CLK 350/2005 Both White
First of all if your check engine light isn’t on and you’ve got more than 110,000 miles I wouldn’t worry about this at all even 90,000 these problems usually occur between 60 and 70,000 miles . What you should do is look up Mercedes balance shaft class action suit if you can find that article it gives the Vin ranges and you can look up if your car is in that range if it is and you haven’t had any problems sell the car or cross your fingers and hope for the best
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 1,550
From: MA
2008 E350 4Matic, 2011 E350 4matic
First of all if your check engine light isn’t on and you’ve got more than 110,000 miles I wouldn’t worry about this at all even 90,000 these problems usually occur between 60 and 70,000 miles . What you should do is look up Mercedes balance shaft class action suit if you can find that article it gives the Vin ranges and you can look up if your car is in that range if it is and you haven’t had any problems sell the car or cross your fingers and hope for the best
The range is mentioned earlier in this thread by Konigstiger:
272 engine up to Serial # 30 468993 or 273 engine up 30 088611 material for the balance shaft sprocket and the timing chain guide wheel (idler) was modified on engines past these serial #s.
Use https://www.datamb.com/ to see if your engine number is in the range.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
W212 E250 (W211 E350 RIP)
I have a 2007 W211 E350 in the affected range (30 396553) with 103,000 miles.
I've been ignoring a P0015 with the Check Engine Light that comes and goes for a while, and just replaced the passenger side exhaust magnet & sensor (figured both parts since I was already there).
But in researching the torque spec for the E8 bolts, I came across this thread and have been reading about the balance shaft issue.
Anything else I should do/look for/be aware of??
I've been ignoring a P0015 with the Check Engine Light that comes and goes for a while, and just replaced the passenger side exhaust magnet & sensor (figured both parts since I was already there).
But in researching the torque spec for the E8 bolts, I came across this thread and have been reading about the balance shaft issue.
- P0015 is straightforward, and as far as I can tell, NOT indicative of the balance shaft problem. Please tell me if this isn't true.
- The MB DTB S-B-03.30/08i includes the below (discussing what to do for "Fault Code Scenario 2: One or more of the fault codes 0059, 0060, 0063, 0064, 0271, 0272, 0275, and 0276"); should I go ahead and replace the other three magnets? If the improved magnets decreases the likelihood of the balance shaft issue...
Engines produced after serial nos. listed above are already equipped with improved camshaft adjustment solenoids (A272 051 01 77).
Super Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 535
Likes: 13
From: Franklin, MA
2006 CLK 350/. 2009 CLK 350/2005 Both White
The smart approach like anything else depending on the weather and where you live if you’re going to get all the tools out you might as well change both sides rather than one side. Plus I mean do you really want to wonder if it was actually the other side that was the problem and you replace things that were perfectly fine unless you have the proper diagnostic tools. I plan on doing mine in the spring I have a manifold flat lever problem also I’m gonna do five things at once All for magnets take the manifold out and replace the flapper lever and put it all back together again should take me half an afternoon at the most
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
W212 E250 (W211 E350 RIP)
The smart approach like anything else depending on the weather and where you live if you’re going to get all the tools out you might as well change both sides rather than one side. Plus I mean do you really want to wonder if it was actually the other side that was the problem and you replace things that were perfectly fine unless you have the proper diagnostic tools. I plan on doing mine in the spring I have a manifold flat lever problem also I’m gonna do five things at once All for magnets take the manifold out and replace the flapper lever and put it all back together again should take me half an afternoon at the most
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
2006 E350 4matic
I had the balance shaft issue. Typically the P0015 is not the bank that the balance shaft trouble codes start to occur (thats the other bank). If you have balance shaft concerns there is a conclusive test to be done that by observing the camshaft timing markers through the holes of the cam position sensors after you set the crank marker to TDC plus 35 degrees (at that point all should be in the center of each hole). The P0015 can be the magnet, wiring to the magnet, the sensor, oil flow issues to the magnet, and apparenly God's will. I have the P0015 going on and off for a while now. In my case I suspect the camshaft marker or adjustment plate sticking, oil flow issue after balance shaft repair). Did you figure yours out?
cheers
cheers
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 909
Likes: 64
2007 cls550
I don’t remember reading exactly why the magnets were updated. I know the o rings on the sensors would leak so I replaced them and all 4 magnets. Oil filter housing has to come off to get to one.
Remember though, the issue is the teeth on the gear of balance shaft are wearing down giving slack in chain. The magnets are adjusting timing. The sensors are just monitoring position.
I would do all 4 just to rule that out. I would keep the sensors.
Remember though, the issue is the teeth on the gear of balance shaft are wearing down giving slack in chain. The magnets are adjusting timing. The sensors are just monitoring position.
I would do all 4 just to rule that out. I would keep the sensors.
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
2006 E350 4matic
The engine worked like a ROLEX after the first cam adjuster change, I had bought the magnets at the dealer. Then the balance shaft came. After that repair, the engine was never that smooth again (my M272 was so smooth one would think it was electric, even WITH the balance shaft issue!!). I use a mini socket with an articulation that allow me to replace the magnet without removing the oil filter housing. The gaskets of the hall sensors are fine, never leaked. I get P0015, may stay a day or two, then goes out, then comes back after a week, then I kill it with my gadget, then it comes back next week, goes off, comes on, I kill it, etc. The chain is not lengthened as it passes the TDC plus 35 deg visual test. a PITA issue
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Mine seems to give P0022 and/or P0015 on cold days. It is hard to tell just when the problem comes and goes because I believe the setting and clearing of the light has some "counts" or delays in the algorithm.
Wondering if it is the adjuster solenoid under the magnet, and not the magnet itself?
Wondering if it is the adjuster solenoid under the magnet, and not the magnet itself?
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
2006 E350 4matic
I got myself some Liqui Moly 0-40 synthetic and a nice MAHLE filter to see if it changes anything based on the cold/oil viscosity theory. Will try during next oil change. Could also be the wiring harness I understand, as I have never seen wires this bad on any other vehicle that crack and break... so not funny
