DO NOT waive your rights!
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,630
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
DO NOT waive your rights!
(1) MB dealerships are licensed franchises of DaimlerChrysler AG / MBUSA – true or false?
(2) Franchise: The permission to sell a product, often within a specified territory, granted to a retailer by the manufacturer – true or false?
(3) The "franchiser" (manufacturer) without exception, has total control over the "franchisee" (retailer) as it pertains to product representation and integrity – true or false?
(4) If a franchisee consistently meets or exceeds satisfaction benchmarks supported in writing the franchiser has little legal reason to question the franchisee no matter the number of verbal accusations made by buyers – true or false?
(5) It is illegal for a franchisee to instruct customers to falsify documents submitted to the franchiser – true or false?
Initial Buyer Survey
No matter what it’s called, survey or questionnaire, this is a legal corporate document.
NEVER rate any category higher than satisfied, good, or somewhat likely no matter what the dealership instructs you to do!!
ALWAYS record negative comments (no matter how trivial) where the form requests comments that MBUSA should be aware of. Be specific and detailed! Attach a second sheet with your name, address, and VIN number and continue to list your information if necessary. Be sure to note “see attached sheet” in the original comments section.
DO NOT fall for the dealership’s shtick “If you cannot rate any question as best on the initial buyer survey from MBUSA speak to us first so that we may have a chance to correct it before submitting.” BS! It’s your call, but common sense dictates that the franchiser has a much better chance than you in getting the matter resolved so why waive this right in the first place?
COPY everything submitted for your records.
If the situation should arise where you are not satisfied with a matter after the sale and did not have an opportunity to note it on the initial buyer survey, file an appendage to your original document. Note the date and file number (top right hand corner) listed on your initial buyer survey. Each and every time you are not satisfied with your dealership, no matter what the issue (inclusive of repair), file an appendage and request assistance to have the matter resolved!
Paul G. Juron
General Manager
Customer Assistance Center
Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC
Three Paragon Drive
Montvale, NJ 07645-0345
Fax: 201-476-6211
Lastly, if you think you’re hurting your relationship with those who assisted in the sale or repair looking for favors down the line, think again given the high turnover rate for MB sales and service writer personnel.
(2) Franchise: The permission to sell a product, often within a specified territory, granted to a retailer by the manufacturer – true or false?
(3) The "franchiser" (manufacturer) without exception, has total control over the "franchisee" (retailer) as it pertains to product representation and integrity – true or false?
(4) If a franchisee consistently meets or exceeds satisfaction benchmarks supported in writing the franchiser has little legal reason to question the franchisee no matter the number of verbal accusations made by buyers – true or false?
(5) It is illegal for a franchisee to instruct customers to falsify documents submitted to the franchiser – true or false?
Initial Buyer Survey
No matter what it’s called, survey or questionnaire, this is a legal corporate document.
NEVER rate any category higher than satisfied, good, or somewhat likely no matter what the dealership instructs you to do!!
ALWAYS record negative comments (no matter how trivial) where the form requests comments that MBUSA should be aware of. Be specific and detailed! Attach a second sheet with your name, address, and VIN number and continue to list your information if necessary. Be sure to note “see attached sheet” in the original comments section.
DO NOT fall for the dealership’s shtick “If you cannot rate any question as best on the initial buyer survey from MBUSA speak to us first so that we may have a chance to correct it before submitting.” BS! It’s your call, but common sense dictates that the franchiser has a much better chance than you in getting the matter resolved so why waive this right in the first place?
COPY everything submitted for your records.
If the situation should arise where you are not satisfied with a matter after the sale and did not have an opportunity to note it on the initial buyer survey, file an appendage to your original document. Note the date and file number (top right hand corner) listed on your initial buyer survey. Each and every time you are not satisfied with your dealership, no matter what the issue (inclusive of repair), file an appendage and request assistance to have the matter resolved!
Paul G. Juron
General Manager
Customer Assistance Center
Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC
Three Paragon Drive
Montvale, NJ 07645-0345
Fax: 201-476-6211
Lastly, if you think you’re hurting your relationship with those who assisted in the sale or repair looking for favors down the line, think again given the high turnover rate for MB sales and service writer personnel.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,690
Likes: 2
From: Washington State
E-500
I agree that the dealer sales and/or service staff directing you to give them a perfect rating is BS.
We have seen post and post over the last year where the salesman or service manager has demanded, whined, bribed, and all other methods to get people to send in a false satisfaction survey.
It has been reported in the past that in the face of the worst possible sales service......a demand for a perfect survey was made.....maybe with an offer of a coffee mug or a tee shirt.
I think this is all BS and the survey should be accurate as you can make it. It will never affect the way you are treated. It you are serviced poorly before the survey, you can rest assured that you will be treated poorly after the survey. No matter what you report.
Easy for me to say as I have been fortunate to have top service and sales treatment.
But......I would not hesitate for one instant to tell it like it is.
_________
Ed
We have seen post and post over the last year where the salesman or service manager has demanded, whined, bribed, and all other methods to get people to send in a false satisfaction survey.
It has been reported in the past that in the face of the worst possible sales service......a demand for a perfect survey was made.....maybe with an offer of a coffee mug or a tee shirt.
I think this is all BS and the survey should be accurate as you can make it. It will never affect the way you are treated. It you are serviced poorly before the survey, you can rest assured that you will be treated poorly after the survey. No matter what you report.
Easy for me to say as I have been fortunate to have top service and sales treatment.
But......I would not hesitate for one instant to tell it like it is._________
Ed
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
SL500
Funny you should bring this up, my brother just received a phone call (a couple of days ago) from his service advisor. The advisor told him he would be receiving a survey about his recent service. If my brother would be kind enough to allow the advisor to fill out the survey FOR him the dealership would give him a free detail ($175 value) and a loaner car. He advised my brother that poor ratings on surveys were jeopardizing jobs and he didn't want to get fired. MB dealerships have really been scrambling since the last J.D. Powers survey.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,445
Likes: 3
From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
It's pathetic that the dealers would try to cheat the system instead of improving their service.
FWIW, Smythe in San Jose also asks that anything less than top marks be brought to their attention so the problem can be corrected. My family has been with them for several decades and NEVER had a problem that needed escalation.
FWIW, Smythe in San Jose also asks that anything less than top marks be brought to their attention so the problem can be corrected. My family has been with them for several decades and NEVER had a problem that needed escalation.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 917
Likes: 86
There is a fine line here....if the dealer wants to fill it out for you, I think that is crossing the line, but I like what Smythe does, it gives them the opportunity to correct a failing. The survey is the way they find out about a failing, but if you fill it and send it in, then they find out after it's too late to do anything about it...I would not mind if the dealer approached me with a similar approach taken by Smythe.
I will say that I think this process is flawed at MB. If they want to fix problems with dealers and service, they should not just rely on a survey at the end of the process (at which point the customer may already be upset), they should implement a model, where an owner has a defined escalation path in the dealership during the process of buying/service and then to MBUSA, and then someone at MBUSA is assigned to address the problem with the dealership. If they did this, most surveys at the end of the process would always be positive, thus achieving the restoration of the image of the mark. Take Baby Jocko's example in the previous post, with this process, his issue could easily be resolved and he would be a happy customer.
Anyone that has worked in a big company is used this kind of professional escalation process for issues.
I will say that I think this process is flawed at MB. If they want to fix problems with dealers and service, they should not just rely on a survey at the end of the process (at which point the customer may already be upset), they should implement a model, where an owner has a defined escalation path in the dealership during the process of buying/service and then to MBUSA, and then someone at MBUSA is assigned to address the problem with the dealership. If they did this, most surveys at the end of the process would always be positive, thus achieving the restoration of the image of the mark. Take Baby Jocko's example in the previous post, with this process, his issue could easily be resolved and he would be a happy customer.
Anyone that has worked in a big company is used this kind of professional escalation process for issues.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,348
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From: Northern NJ
2014 BMW 550i
I agree with abhansali. It is all about the way that the dealer approaches the situation. There should always be a point to where if a problem exists, that the dealer should WANT to know about it so that they can fix it. One so that they don't have any issues with MB corporate, but mainly the reason should be so that they keep the customer happy, ie, the reason that they are in business in the first place (well, to make money too).
I've seen a lot of different industries that have had changes happen and exposes the fact that service is key. Now, the differences between different brands in cars, as well as with a lot of other things, is diminishing. Service has to be something that sets them apart.
When I had my Lexus, I always answered them accurately, and my dealer had always offered in a follow up call to make sure that everything was OK and asked if anything could be done to make it better.
Although, MB should have a question as to whether you would like for this information to be shared with your dealer, anonymously. If you had this option, I'm sure a lot more people would answer their surveys more candidly.
I've seen a lot of different industries that have had changes happen and exposes the fact that service is key. Now, the differences between different brands in cars, as well as with a lot of other things, is diminishing. Service has to be something that sets them apart.
When I had my Lexus, I always answered them accurately, and my dealer had always offered in a follow up call to make sure that everything was OK and asked if anything could be done to make it better.
Although, MB should have a question as to whether you would like for this information to be shared with your dealer, anonymously. If you had this option, I'm sure a lot more people would answer their surveys more candidly.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 454
Likes: 0
From: NC
'03 Mercedes E320
My dealer, on a mailed pre-survey from the dealership simply says: "If there's anything that would prompt you to rate our performance less than outstanding, please let us have the opportunity to correct the problem first."
That's fair.
That's fair.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,690
Likes: 2
From: Washington State
E-500
Originally posted by jim256
My dealer, on a mailed pre-survey from the dealership simply says: "If there's anything that would prompt you to rate our performance less than outstanding, please let us have the opportunity to correct the problem first."
That's fair.
My dealer, on a mailed pre-survey from the dealership simply says: "If there's anything that would prompt you to rate our performance less than outstanding, please let us have the opportunity to correct the problem first."
That's fair.
What is not right is the outright bribe that some dealers offer. Most of those seem to be the ones with the worst sales/service operations.
It must work and must be easier than cleaning up their operation.
It you participate in the deception you are only adding to the continued sleezy operation. It will never get any pressure to clean up from MB.
The survey is very important to the dealership. The allotment of cars is somewhat based on the surveys. I understand the hold-back is based on the survey also. A dealership that does not go all out to earn the "perfect" score deserves the pressure it gets.
Maybe MarcusBenz can enlighten us as to the importance of the survey to the dealership.
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Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 216
Likes: 1
From: Albuquerque
2003 E320
Sorry but I hate those damn things. I almost never fill one out. I consider it a waste of time. They can fill it out if they want to because I will not. If the dealer was not doing a good job, I might consider it but they are great. I have found if you are nice to them, they treat you nice as well. Not that there has never been a problem but if there was, it was always fixed and more.
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
E500
I find it interesting that MB sends us surveys both shortly after delivery and then again a year later. they concentrate almost solely on the dealer (sales & service).
Why is it they never ask us what we think about the car itself. Design, engineering, opinions of features offered or omitted, etc.
Why is it they never ask us what we think about the car itself. Design, engineering, opinions of features offered or omitted, etc.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,630
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,445
Likes: 3
From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
Originally posted by e500
I find it interesting that MB sends us surveys both shortly after delivery and then again a year later. they concentrate almost solely on the dealer (sales & service).
Why is it they never ask us what we think about the car itself. Design, engineering, opinions of features offered or omitted, etc.
I find it interesting that MB sends us surveys both shortly after delivery and then again a year later. they concentrate almost solely on the dealer (sales & service).
Why is it they never ask us what we think about the car itself. Design, engineering, opinions of features offered or omitted, etc.
Maybe MB wants to keep their problems internal?
Almost a Member!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, California
E63 AMG
My dealer always asked that I bring in "the survey" to them for a free tank of gas. I usually did - until I noticed in bold print on the survey itself, "DO NOT RETURN TO YOUR DEALERSHIP. USE THE ENCLOSED SELF ADDRESSED POSTAGE PAID ENVELOPE"
For once, I returned it myself with a couple misgivings about the number of times my 03 E500 has been in for repairs and that some items were still not fixed properly. Where it asked, "WOULD YOU BUY ANOTHER MB" I marked "Somewhat Unlikely".
A couple weeks later, I received a call from Customer Service in Montvale asking if everything was resolved to my satisfaction. I never returned the call. But I did recieve a surprise GIFT - A Mercedes Benz wool blanket. I hope they keep trying. However, I believe Schremmp has done to Mercedes-Benz what Eisner has done to Disney.....
RMELTZ
For once, I returned it myself with a couple misgivings about the number of times my 03 E500 has been in for repairs and that some items were still not fixed properly. Where it asked, "WOULD YOU BUY ANOTHER MB" I marked "Somewhat Unlikely".
A couple weeks later, I received a call from Customer Service in Montvale asking if everything was resolved to my satisfaction. I never returned the call. But I did recieve a surprise GIFT - A Mercedes Benz wool blanket. I hope they keep trying. However, I believe Schremmp has done to Mercedes-Benz what Eisner has done to Disney.....
RMELTZ
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey
I have always found it incredibly annoying that the dealerships put so much pressure on you to provide a greta survey. In my opinion, this issue has gotten way out of hand!
When I bouhgt my new vehicle at Ray Catena, I had a deal negoiated for a price on the car, but financed via leasing. When I went to take delivery, the sales manager quoted me a money factor that was 0.5% over the tier one factor. When I challenged them on it, the answer was that "we have a right to make a financing premium on the car". They eventually backed down, but on the relavnt questions on the survey for financing, I rated them poorly. Believe it or not, I got a call form the salesperson giving me a hard time, telling me "you cost me 100 dollars".
MBUSA needs to address the survey process, there is no way they are getting realisic results given the way they do it now.
When I bouhgt my new vehicle at Ray Catena, I had a deal negoiated for a price on the car, but financed via leasing. When I went to take delivery, the sales manager quoted me a money factor that was 0.5% over the tier one factor. When I challenged them on it, the answer was that "we have a right to make a financing premium on the car". They eventually backed down, but on the relavnt questions on the survey for financing, I rated them poorly. Believe it or not, I got a call form the salesperson giving me a hard time, telling me "you cost me 100 dollars".
MBUSA needs to address the survey process, there is no way they are getting realisic results given the way they do it now.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,445
Likes: 3
From: WOT somewhere in the Bay Area
1951 Caterpiller D6
Originally posted by pat a.
I got a call form the salesperson giving me a hard time, telling me "you cost me 100 dollars".
I got a call form the salesperson giving me a hard time, telling me "you cost me 100 dollars".
Unprofessional!
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
04' E500 w/Appear. PKG, Panorama Roof
You know I had a truly rough experiance having my wheel fall off after a service tech balanced my tires. But maintaining my cool and treating the service folks and the GM as pleasant and even as humorously as I could, we turned the event into a good relationship. Now don'tr mistake that for me lowering my standards or secumbing to any bribery. If there is anything wrong I am sure to let them know, but in a friendly way. It goes a long way. I will keep my documentation of thw wheels,and any surveys and while I will give them a chance to make things right, they know that means they need to not happen again either. I think my dealer treated me right on this deal and I actually would hesitate using another. all in my Opinion
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
From: New Jersey USA
2014 E350 4Matic/2011 E350 4matic / 2003 E500 /2000 CLK 430
I got roped into the survey thing back in 2000.
My sales guy, who should be selling used Buicks, gave me a cheap bottle of champagne & a key fob. This gift also included inept and condescending service techs.
I have four repair requests - my new car has 1K miles on it. I will base my survey on:
a. how quickly they take my car and provide a loaner
b. if the repairs are made correctly and expeditiously.
My sales guy, who should be selling used Buicks, gave me a cheap bottle of champagne & a key fob. This gift also included inept and condescending service techs.
I have four repair requests - my new car has 1K miles on it. I will base my survey on:
a. how quickly they take my car and provide a loaner
b. if the repairs are made correctly and expeditiously.
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: USA
2007 E350 Sport
I agree with the above posts.
I refuse to be bribed by the dealership in exchange for a (falsely) positive survey. Years ago I took the free detail on a Mercedes and found it to be nothing more than a cursory car wash with armour-all'd wheels. I felt badly they got away with it. Another survey (Jaguar) that I filled in honestly but critically, caused them to try harder with future servicing. Now, I either fill out the survey honestly or if they're really trying, I hold the survey or don't send it in at all.
Last edited by Carnaught; Dec 6, 2003 at 12:58 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,851
Likes: 196
From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
Surveys....
The sales manager at my dealer explained that dealer employee income and employment are dependent on survey results. Having been in the same situation (computer service business) I can say that is the wrong use of survey results.
Unfortunately businesses today want quick fixes and answers and feel punishment at the customer interface level (the bottom) works bests. Satisfaction surveys should be used at a high level only (maximum respondents) to analyze the processes involved and make corrections. Rarely can survey results be accurate to the individual person unless a 'significant statistical' measurement has been met. Don't blame the dealers, blame MB for putting the pressure at the wrong place. Instead of looking at employee failures they should worry more about training, diagnostics, problem feedback, and quality. Do you think Lexus just happens to hire all the best auto workers in the business? MB is too arrogant to believe they are doing anything wrong.
Unfortunately businesses today want quick fixes and answers and feel punishment at the customer interface level (the bottom) works bests. Satisfaction surveys should be used at a high level only (maximum respondents) to analyze the processes involved and make corrections. Rarely can survey results be accurate to the individual person unless a 'significant statistical' measurement has been met. Don't blame the dealers, blame MB for putting the pressure at the wrong place. Instead of looking at employee failures they should worry more about training, diagnostics, problem feedback, and quality. Do you think Lexus just happens to hire all the best auto workers in the business? MB is too arrogant to believe they are doing anything wrong.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,630
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Re: Surveys....
Originally posted by mleskovar
The sales manager at my dealer explained that dealer employee income and employment are dependent on survey results.
The sales manager at my dealer explained that dealer employee income and employment are dependent on survey results.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,630
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
To get the best understanding of this matter please be sure to also read:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=54310
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=54310
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,630
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Associated thread, please be sure to record your experience(s)
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=54539
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=54539
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,630
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Welp, Back To Square One......#$%@!
Mr.Xristo
Could not have said it any better...
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=56016
Could not have said it any better...
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=56016
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 15,901
Likes: 4,630
From: North Scottsdale, AZ
'71 Pinto
Advice on handling unresponsive salesperson
Proof positive.
BoughtaBenz
I knew more about the car then even their General Manager, and that's a Shame!
drb
Each one said they did not know how the Internet worked, how to use email, etc.
Considering the three people I have dealt with at the dealership are often clueless about vehicle problems, service bulletins, etc. I suggested an information source with usually well informed people. Seems simple enough
Rudegar
Most are not savvy or interested
HELL ONA HARLEY
Have you ever been to the dealership on sunday afternoon??? I swear, every sales drone on the floor is in front of the tube watching the football game...
rgbyhkr
Hell, my original local salesguy was so uncomfortable finding his way around the computer that I had to show him where some of the menu items were in his Netstar screen and this guy has been a salesman for years!
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=55914
BoughtaBenz
I knew more about the car then even their General Manager, and that's a Shame!
drb
Each one said they did not know how the Internet worked, how to use email, etc.
Considering the three people I have dealt with at the dealership are often clueless about vehicle problems, service bulletins, etc. I suggested an information source with usually well informed people. Seems simple enough
Rudegar
Most are not savvy or interested
HELL ONA HARLEY
Have you ever been to the dealership on sunday afternoon??? I swear, every sales drone on the floor is in front of the tube watching the football game...
rgbyhkr
Hell, my original local salesguy was so uncomfortable finding his way around the computer that I had to show him where some of the menu items were in his Netstar screen and this guy has been a salesman for years!
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=55914
