rmeltz1

Two articles published on the same day (12/15):

Mercedes-Benz wants 150 of its suppliers to lower their prices by 5 percent within the next three years.

The amount includes a flat 2 percent reduction plus 3 percent to be achieved by making technical changes to the ordered vehicle components.

DaimlerChrysler boss Jürgen Schrempp told the Mercedes-Benz Car Group's purchasing department for more cost saving measures to help offset a drop in sales.

DaimlerChrysler suppliers say it's not accidental that Chairman Jürgen Schrempp's management legacy is under attack -- not only in a US courtroom but also in the marketplace, where Mercedes-Benz's reputation for quality is declining.

Suppliers say that, since Schrempp took over in 1996, Mercedes-Benz has lost its engineering focus and has placed a higher value on cost control. The old maxim that Mercedes over-engineers its cars is seldom heard these days.

Mercedes has fallen behind rival BMW for the first time in the latest member satisfaction survey by the ADAC, the largest German roadside organization. Mercedes-Benz drivers ranked the company No. 32 out of 33 brands scored.

Complaints about Mercedes-Benz quality are not new. Customers have complained that the brand isn't what it used to be at least since the introduction of the W190 in the 1980s.

The brand has been stretched to cover a wide range of products, from the entry-level Vaneo to the McLaren SLR supercar.

The early models for the W124 E class ran into quality problems. The A class tipped over without ESP.

But consumers forgave Mercedes. They had faith that the brand's core engineering values would let the company fix teething problems and deliver cars that were more durable and reliable than its competitors.

But that faith now seems to be ebbing.

The problems are confined to surveys so they haven't hurt sales yet. But as the global luxury market has boomed, Mercedes-Benz has underperformed rivals BMW, Porsche and Lexus.

The problem is more than just poor execution on innovations or a drift from brand values.

The problem is the product: rusting doors in the E class, poor corrosion resistance on the M class; defective airbags on the C, E and S class models and poor electronic reliability.

"Mercedes has an astonishingly large number of problems," says German magazine AutoBild.

What happened? Suppliers say that, since Schrempp took over, Mercedes-Benz has lost its engineering focus and has emphasized cost cutting. Mercedes has reduced over-engineering. The E class was designed to cost 11 percent less than the old model -- and generates half the division's profits, say analysts. But DaimlerChrysler is shifting the profits to support its Chrysler and Mitsubishi brands.

Even the strongest brand can fade when products no longer support the value-for-money proposition that built it originally. Mercedes-Benz must restore its core values if it is to retain its luxury-brand premium position in the long term.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Well.... I'm certainly not here to defend Mercedes but this could be said about most all car companies these days, although most other brands are a lot cheaper in price. I think its hitting Mercedes harder than most other companies simply because they have more to lose...
Its all about making a profit for the share holders... I guess the secret is to do it cheaper and keep the quality up. Well I guess thats no secret, but no one can seem to do it....

nyca

I don't know, all of the auto makers are looking to cut cost of parts.

I think one problem MB has is value, what you get for what you pay. Example, I know two people who did not buy W203 C classes (2001/2) for one reason: the car did not come with a standard CD player and the dealers wanted $995 for a glovebox changer. that blew the whole deal, they went someplace else.

Mortenstein

Isn't there something like "You get what you pay for"?? But the problem is, MB pays less to built the car but the sales prices go up every year. So over the years... you get less than you pay for - that's the problem.

People spend a lot of money for an unfinished product (so did I) - and obviously their quality control is a big problem. When I got into my car, the ventilated seat (driver) was making a terrible noise, one fan seems to be broken. In my eyes nobody ever checked to see if everything worked in the car since they would have heard that it is not. They should spend another 100Euro per car on quality control and deliver "perfect" products - that's what people really want.

allenjdmb

it's also the more disapppointing owner experience. A certain level of not only quality, but enjoyment, satisfaction, and other intangibles used to come with even an old 240D. I know, I've been buying them for over 20 years, and my Dad another 20 years before that. I beleive that the build quality is not that awful compared to others in the marketplace--but Benz build quality has suffered while others have markedly improved. I would have to say that article is spot on, as my main beef is that the quality of raw materials is now so poor, particularly plastics, leather, carpet, and glass. I know that cost and weight is king, but I think that DC's drive towards cost savings, in an effort to obtain more and youthful customers, is going to bite them in the *** in the long run, as there will be no long term loyalty and satifaction. Of course, they're not helping themselves by flooding the US market with so much product.
You listening Monvale? Of course you aren't. I keep assuming you care.
Wrong.

W210

What does this thread have to do with W211? Moderator please move it to general discussion, thanks!

E-1F4

Think about hurtling down the road at 100 mph and one of those "cost effective" parts fails. All because some dumb*&$ wanted to improve the bottom line .


If you can't make money on a 50 thousand dollar car as it is, you should be working for the government.

allenjdmb

The same thing it does to every model in the line. This continual drop in quality is no longer a secret just known to long term owners. It's now public knowledge, known to those even on the fringe of the automotive community. Many of us care about the brand, and have been affected by this sorry turn of events in the last few years in terms of resale, aggravation and plain old being pissed off. The factory claims a "return" to quality with the 211. Huh? We'll see. Wait'll you try to trade or sell your 211, or have a serious out of warranty repair. The whole thing stinks. I know its the world we live in, but doesn't make it any more pleasant. Gee, I'm turning into an old man...

W210

Perhaps I should have made myself more clear, why should this belong specifically to the W211 section and not in the General MB section for all to read.

The world is still wonderful, MB quality goes up or down, BMW styling turning you on or off, Lexus cars not having driver's feel, etc..

Cars are still better now than ever, let's face it, with all the technology in our cars, the debugging is a hard to avoid trade off. Happy motoring.

mbr129

This has been evident to me for a while. And that is why the only Mercedes I would buy is the E320 CDI (because diesel engines are bullet-proof) and I would be sure to option it with a few electronic gadgets as possible. Those are usually what break, not the barakes or transmission. I'd get mine only with metallic paint and a sunroof. As it is, there is plenty of stuff to go wrong, why add more complexity by getting gadgets I don't need.

I also will never own a new model. I rather wait 2-3 years.

allenjdmb

complex things requiring repair. I have and still own complex computers, watches, hi fi gear and lots of other neat stuff that breaks. I 've spent many enjoyable afternoons at the hi fi store tweaking the latest product that doesn't work properly or has an improvement. That's a far cry from the denial of DC and MBUSA telling us that all is well with thier world.
What I do have a problem with is MB coasting on an illusion of quality that used to exist when it no longer does. I'm fully aware that complex things break and need more tweaking. What I don't like is cheaper carpets, leather that is approaching the quality of midrange Japanese cars, water based paint that is eaten up with rock chips due to sorry clear coats, front ends that aren't stable because the components are so light weight, glass that pits at the hint of a molecule in the air, $150 keys that won't open the trunk, and propaganda that tells me that the stuff is better than ever.
Sorry. someone needs to call them on it. Stay vigilant.

W210

I'm curious as I find most modern MB far more stable at speed than the models they replace, due to better aero dynamics. I still prefer the leather used in higher end MB over the Japanese, but then, I go for the napa leather which is far softer than the regular. It's not a big deal but I find the leather in Lexus and Infiniti smelling like plastic, compared to the leather used by the Germans.

I agree with you on the water based paint but it seems to apply to all cars made and not MB alone.

Would love to vote with the wallet, but the Lexus simply doesn't have the same driving feel and the new BMWs are killing themselves with the cheap interior and ugly exterior. My bitter experience with Audi & Volvo doesn't help.