Yet another W211 with a SBC failure
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From: Down Unda
W204 C63 AMG, W212 E250 CGI, C207 E250 CGI
Seen that before and that doesnt really mean anything but a faulty unit that needs to be repaired or replaced. Any faulty unit in a car will come out with the same diagnosis. What i want to see is a writing from MB that says the sbc has a 10yr shelf life/expiration date or 200,000 depresses.
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From: dmv
2009 E550 2000 Honda civic mash n' go
I feel as though if you purchase a vehicle that is worth 65-70k$ brand new a 1k-2k$ wear and tear item repair is peanuts even 15 years later. Until someone dies from a sbc failure I would assume no law suit will be filed and passed. Mercedes knows first hand about the failures-hence the x-warr. Also there are alot of good points and tid-bits in the this thread, however sbc lets you know when it is going to fail-most of the time. I can vouch for that because the unit will require a update-once you get the update you should expect in the coming months or year the unit will need to be replaced. That is up to your SA to inform you on that. Most of you dont take your car to the dealership so there is another reason you wouldn't or don't know.
There's 2015 C-300 4 cylinder engines with 200 miles on the clock getting engine overhauls. Product defects are present on all makes and models. It's just when it comes time to address or pay for them people want to wave the lawsuit flag/this is a safety issue/it shouldn't be like this ect ect. To each their own, however if you are really that unsatisfied with your you MB or any vehicle for that matter-sell it and get you a TOMOS moped or VESTA. You gotta pay to play and Especially when you drive something with a MB on it!!!!!
It's one thing to purchase a MB-A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING TO MAINTAIN AND TAKE CARE OF IT.... product defect or not....
There's 2015 C-300 4 cylinder engines with 200 miles on the clock getting engine overhauls. Product defects are present on all makes and models. It's just when it comes time to address or pay for them people want to wave the lawsuit flag/this is a safety issue/it shouldn't be like this ect ect. To each their own, however if you are really that unsatisfied with your you MB or any vehicle for that matter-sell it and get you a TOMOS moped or VESTA. You gotta pay to play and Especially when you drive something with a MB on it!!!!!
It's one thing to purchase a MB-A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING TO MAINTAIN AND TAKE CARE OF IT.... product defect or not....
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2015
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2003 E320
Hey now beejAMG, don't make me get on the defensive here! 
I never whined about anything. I was attempting to learn more about the issue from others who have had the unit replaced; so that I could determine if it was worth it to me to pay for the repair given that the car is older and isn't worth too much any more, I was planning on replacing it in 1-2 years, and that I'm uneasy driving it now.
I took the advice to take it to an independent shop, got a quote for $1600, and decided that was worth it to me. You admitted that you replaced your w211, because the SBC failure was lurking in the back of your mind. Well, it's lurking in the back of my mind too.
I'm not complaining because it's a expensive item to fix. I had more costly problems than this with my previous C-class. You buy an expensive car, you should expect expensive maintenance.
I understand that conventional brakes fail too, without warning. But this is a chronic problem with a specific system and MB didn't put sufficient back-up braking capacity in the car, despite what they say. You all aren't getting the point of my argument, and I don't know how else to explain it... so
Shadow5501, I never got a white brake system warning. That would have been nice. In my experience, even after it completely failed, it didn't post any fault codes.
This is good to know! How do you check it? Do you have to have DAS?
I never whined about anything. I was attempting to learn more about the issue from others who have had the unit replaced; so that I could determine if it was worth it to me to pay for the repair given that the car is older and isn't worth too much any more, I was planning on replacing it in 1-2 years, and that I'm uneasy driving it now.I took the advice to take it to an independent shop, got a quote for $1600, and decided that was worth it to me. You admitted that you replaced your w211, because the SBC failure was lurking in the back of your mind. Well, it's lurking in the back of my mind too.
I'm not complaining because it's a expensive item to fix. I had more costly problems than this with my previous C-class. You buy an expensive car, you should expect expensive maintenance.
I understand that conventional brakes fail too, without warning. But this is a chronic problem with a specific system and MB didn't put sufficient back-up braking capacity in the car, despite what they say. You all aren't getting the point of my argument, and I don't know how else to explain it... so
Shadow5501, I never got a white brake system warning. That would have been nice. In my experience, even after it completely failed, it didn't post any fault codes.
This is good to know! How do you check it? Do you have to have DAS?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 17
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2003 E320
People, I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE COST! My only concern regarding the cost was versus the value of the car and my personal decision to trade it in sooner or later.
This. I was wondering if checking the SBC is on MB's service maintenance checklist, so that it can be preemptively replaced. You're right many people don't take their car to dealer. I'm one of them - I haven't taken the car to an MB dealership for service since 2011 (moved to a different state and I don't like the dealership closest to me).
Perhaps the result of a class action could be for MBUSA to provide free diagnostics/evaluation of the SBC for the life of the car at some determined regular interval. Only free to encourage people to take their car to the dealership, then they are free to take it to whomever for the work.
OK, I've officially spent too much time on this topic.
sbc lets you know when it is going to fail-most of the time. I can vouch for that because the unit will require a update-once you get the update you should expect in the coming months or year the unit will need to be replaced. That is up to your SA to inform you on that. Most of you dont take your car to the dealership so there is another reason you wouldn't or don't know.
Perhaps the result of a class action could be for MBUSA to provide free diagnostics/evaluation of the SBC for the life of the car at some determined regular interval. Only free to encourage people to take their car to the dealership, then they are free to take it to whomever for the work.
OK, I've officially spent too much time on this topic.
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From: dmv
2009 E550 2000 Honda civic mash n' go
[QUOTE=nysmith;6586117]People, I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE COST! My only concern regarding the cost was versus the value of the car and my personal decision to trade it in sooner or later.
This wasn't directly appointed to you-this thread-or topic. I was more-so saying the cost statement because I frequently see people complaining about costs all over this forum for repairs.... Like did you die? Did someone put a gun to your head and say you have to purchase this BENZ?
NYSMITH you did the correct thing in fixing your sbc especially since they weren't going to offer you much for the vehicle. Bite the bullet, like you said aside from this things have been great, and fix the MERC and get it back on the road!!!!
This wasn't directly appointed to you-this thread-or topic. I was more-so saying the cost statement because I frequently see people complaining about costs all over this forum for repairs.... Like did you die? Did someone put a gun to your head and say you have to purchase this BENZ?
NYSMITH you did the correct thing in fixing your sbc especially since they weren't going to offer you much for the vehicle. Bite the bullet, like you said aside from this things have been great, and fix the MERC and get it back on the road!!!!
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2006 E320 CDI
I took my 2006 E320 CDI to the MB dealership for the recommended 2yr brake flush in August. I also asked them to interrogate the SBC to determine how many times it has been activated and how many cycles are left. The SA told me that they could not perform that function. 85k miles now on the car and the SBC is out of the warranty period.
I plan on replacing the SBC when I hopefully get the white warning stop sign in the dash.
We all realize that parts fail. What is an important difference is that this system apparently has a PRE-PROGRAMMED service threshold, which when attained, shuts the system down to a backup mode. The backup is less than adequate according to forum members that have experienced the failure.
Owners with a DAS can interrogate, why can't the dealership? MB should instruct their mechanics how to interrogate and issue a recall for a free check. I am willing to pay for the replacement before the failure occurs.
JMTC
John
I plan on replacing the SBC when I hopefully get the white warning stop sign in the dash.
We all realize that parts fail. What is an important difference is that this system apparently has a PRE-PROGRAMMED service threshold, which when attained, shuts the system down to a backup mode. The backup is less than adequate according to forum members that have experienced the failure.
Owners with a DAS can interrogate, why can't the dealership? MB should instruct their mechanics how to interrogate and issue a recall for a free check. I am willing to pay for the replacement before the failure occurs.
JMTC
John
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From: Down Unda
W204 C63 AMG, W212 E250 CGI, C207 E250 CGI
Looking to blame others or the manufacturer, asking for a class
action lawsuit, wanting a recall, sounds like whining to me. When something fails in your car, get advice on how to handle it the cheapest possible way then move on. Thats what this thread was about up until my first reply. But when people start chiming in about lawsuit and what not, this thread has become a whining thread.
Show me an article that an sbc was the particular cause of death of an accident. NO ONE CAN. Full stop. Now tell me how many W211s were sold all over the world from 2002 compared to all the documented complaints about SBC. I understand that not all 211 owners whine in forums about their problems with sbc, but dont forget that not all 211 owners post their JOY and SATISFACTION with the sbc too.
OP: i fully understand your situation and i will be scared as well, but stop bein a baby, you got your advice, good ones if you ask me, fix the problem and move on. There will be more problems thatll youll encounter with your mb and youll need this forum again. When the time comes to upgrade, go for it like i did. People here a very helpful and knowledgable about MB, but some just get tired of pointing the blame or looking to pass the responsibility to someone else. Again, goodluck and like most of us here, hope you enjoy your 211 til your next MB. Cheers and happy motoring!
action lawsuit, wanting a recall, sounds like whining to me. When something fails in your car, get advice on how to handle it the cheapest possible way then move on. Thats what this thread was about up until my first reply. But when people start chiming in about lawsuit and what not, this thread has become a whining thread.
Show me an article that an sbc was the particular cause of death of an accident. NO ONE CAN. Full stop. Now tell me how many W211s were sold all over the world from 2002 compared to all the documented complaints about SBC. I understand that not all 211 owners whine in forums about their problems with sbc, but dont forget that not all 211 owners post their JOY and SATISFACTION with the sbc too.
OP: i fully understand your situation and i will be scared as well, but stop bein a baby, you got your advice, good ones if you ask me, fix the problem and move on. There will be more problems thatll youll encounter with your mb and youll need this forum again. When the time comes to upgrade, go for it like i did. People here a very helpful and knowledgable about MB, but some just get tired of pointing the blame or looking to pass the responsibility to someone else. Again, goodluck and like most of us here, hope you enjoy your 211 til your next MB. Cheers and happy motoring!
Last edited by beejAMG; Oct 16, 2015 at 09:06 PM.
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From: Republic of Texas
'99 and '05 E55 AMG
"I took my 2006 E320 CDI to the MB dealership for the recommended 2yr brake flush in August. I also asked them to interrogate the SBC to determine how many times it has been activated and how many cycles are left. The SA told me that they could not perform that function. 85k miles now on the car and the SBC is out of the warranty period."
I throw the BS flag on this one and call a penalty. If you want to rub this so-called "Service Advisor"'s nose into it, give him a copy of the following. Absolute rubbish on his part. If he doesn't understand it, tell him to join this forum and search.
--------------------------------
W211 SBC countcheck or reset (Must have "developer kit" software).
Start engine. (Note: Engine does not need to be running to only obtain count.)
Start Xentry, go through menus for your vehicle and go to:
-Control units
-Chassis
-SBC sensotronic brake control
-Development data
-Actuations (should be at the bottom of the menu so scroll if necessary)
-Complete index of Actuations
Break: To only get the count, select “Bremsenzaehler (DF_GetBrLiveTime)”. This
returns the total count to date. Stop here if only getting the count and backout of the menu using the F1 key.
----------------
Stuff happens and it sucks. Be prepared for anything. I still complain about the time the Chevy Chevette that I owned while attending university had a rear wheel bearing go bad; bearing overheated, melted the seals on the slave cylinder on the rear drum brake , and I lost all braking power (pedal to the floor!) with my wife and infant son in the car! After a sharp dose of adrenalin entering the bloodstream, I rapidly evaluated the situation, brought the car safely to a stop, and then drove it over 30 miles home on the Interstate using the parking brake when necessary. To make matters worse, that Chevette took most of my money to purchase. $250! Yep. My priorities were a bit different back then....
I throw the BS flag on this one and call a penalty. If you want to rub this so-called "Service Advisor"'s nose into it, give him a copy of the following. Absolute rubbish on his part. If he doesn't understand it, tell him to join this forum and search.
--------------------------------
W211 SBC countcheck or reset (Must have "developer kit" software).
Start engine. (Note: Engine does not need to be running to only obtain count.)
Start Xentry, go through menus for your vehicle and go to:
-Control units
-Chassis
-SBC sensotronic brake control
-Development data
-Actuations (should be at the bottom of the menu so scroll if necessary)
-Complete index of Actuations
Break: To only get the count, select “Bremsenzaehler (DF_GetBrLiveTime)”. This
returns the total count to date. Stop here if only getting the count and backout of the menu using the F1 key.
----------------
Stuff happens and it sucks. Be prepared for anything. I still complain about the time the Chevy Chevette that I owned while attending university had a rear wheel bearing go bad; bearing overheated, melted the seals on the slave cylinder on the rear drum brake , and I lost all braking power (pedal to the floor!) with my wife and infant son in the car! After a sharp dose of adrenalin entering the bloodstream, I rapidly evaluated the situation, brought the car safely to a stop, and then drove it over 30 miles home on the Interstate using the parking brake when necessary. To make matters worse, that Chevette took most of my money to purchase. $250! Yep. My priorities were a bit different back then....
Last edited by bbirdwell; Oct 16, 2015 at 09:40 PM.
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From: MA
2008 E350 4Matic, 2011 E350 4matic
It might not be. I seem to recall reading somewhere else that claimed that in their latest Star update, they got rid of developer mode so the dealership didn't have access to that mode anymore, but if you buy a knock off star system, it will have developer mode and you can find out what the number is. Maybe the dealership doesn't want the liability as they say you can really screw things up if you don't know what you're doing.
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From: Republic of Texas
'99 and '05 E55 AMG
It might not be. I seem to recall reading somewhere else that claimed that in their latest Star update, they got rid of developer mode so the dealership didn't have access to that mode anymore, but if you buy a knock off star system, it will have developer mode and you can find out what the number is. Maybe the dealership doesn't want the liability as they say you can really screw things up if you don't know what you're doing.
Quite possible after the lawyers get involved. Surely there is someone in the OP's area who can assist? If the OP were in my area I would be happy to be of service.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 17
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2003 E320
Thanks cmriv! Gotcha. SBC has been replaced, picked it up this evening, and saved a few hundred bucks thanks to your advice!!
beejAMG, are you looking to pick a fight? You're calling me a baby because I expressed my concerns over safety? Just because you aren't able readily find documentation of a fatality doesn't mean it hasn't happened, or that it won't. Recalls and class actions are meant to protect people (albeit, they aren't always used that way, but I digress). And in order for one to happen - people have to complain. You think corporations do it out of the goodness of their own hearts? I understand if you do not agree with my opinion, but belittling is neither appropriate nor constructive.
bbirdwell and cetialpha5, thanks for the informative posts. I've had the unit replaced, but checking on it every once in a while would give me some peace of mind. bbirdwell, I'm afraid I don't live near you, but thank you for your offer! I'm sure I can find someone in my area with the right tools.
SBC has been replaced, picked it up this evening, and saved a few hundred bucks thanks to your advice!! beejAMG, are you looking to pick a fight? You're calling me a baby because I expressed my concerns over safety? Just because you aren't able readily find documentation of a fatality doesn't mean it hasn't happened, or that it won't. Recalls and class actions are meant to protect people (albeit, they aren't always used that way, but I digress). And in order for one to happen - people have to complain. You think corporations do it out of the goodness of their own hearts? I understand if you do not agree with my opinion, but belittling is neither appropriate nor constructive.
bbirdwell and cetialpha5, thanks for the informative posts. I've had the unit replaced, but checking on it every once in a while would give me some peace of mind. bbirdwell, I'm afraid I don't live near you, but thank you for your offer! I'm sure I can find someone in my area with the right tools.
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,133
Likes: 134
From: Down Unda
W204 C63 AMG, W212 E250 CGI, C207 E250 CGI
Nope, not picking a fight, especially not over the internet.
Gave you my 2 cents on my first reply and you came back looking for lawsuits and stuff. wished you well on 2 different occasions already but you still keep coming. Some people...smh
Edit: ill save this thread so i can just copy paste the link for the next guy looking for a free ride.
Gave you my 2 cents on my first reply and you came back looking for lawsuits and stuff. wished you well on 2 different occasions already but you still keep coming. Some people...smh
Edit: ill save this thread so i can just copy paste the link for the next guy looking for a free ride.
Last edited by beejAMG; Oct 17, 2015 at 12:42 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,486
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From: dmv
2009 E550 2000 Honda civic mash n' go
There is a reason you don't see stuff about MB in the news. They handle situations like this accordingly and most of the time in a timely manner. Glad the OP got the situation resolved.
Technicians in america get paid flat rate. NO tech in their right mind is going to willingly interrogate sbc when a relevant fault isn't present. That is in-efficiency to a T. Until something is broken or has failed nothing can accurately be diagnosed or replaced. Chasing a problem that isn't their is stupidity. SBC isn't really that bad when you think about it. The following chasis have sbc, 211-219-230.
So please, tell me how a lawyer involved will assist any help with the "free ride" people are begging for? There's a small fraction of sbc units that have gone bad in comparison to the vehicle sold with sbc. OP not saying you wanted a free ride, but it seems to me at least in the w211 thread people complain all the time about a mechanical moving part that fails.....
Technicians in america get paid flat rate. NO tech in their right mind is going to willingly interrogate sbc when a relevant fault isn't present. That is in-efficiency to a T. Until something is broken or has failed nothing can accurately be diagnosed or replaced. Chasing a problem that isn't their is stupidity. SBC isn't really that bad when you think about it. The following chasis have sbc, 211-219-230.
So please, tell me how a lawyer involved will assist any help with the "free ride" people are begging for? There's a small fraction of sbc units that have gone bad in comparison to the vehicle sold with sbc. OP not saying you wanted a free ride, but it seems to me at least in the w211 thread people complain all the time about a mechanical moving part that fails.....
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Joined: Oct 2014
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2003 E55
umm...beejAMG...the STAR message says "service threshold reached". How can a reasonable person not interpret this message to indicate a service life? The service life is not time based. It is equipment actuation based. So every car can and will have a different time where it will reach the service threshold of the equipment. Your question is answered with the MB bulletin as proof. My 2cents. Remember, it is not a stereo system being discussed. It is the primary means to stop the car. It is not a fluke failure. It is known to occur. I have not had this problem yet in my E, but if I (or most other people) should actually experience this failure at highway speeds, I would not be so nonchalant in discussing whom should be responsible. So that being said...whom do I see about the cup holder?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,133
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From: Down Unda
W204 C63 AMG, W212 E250 CGI, C207 E250 CGI
umm...beejAMG...the STAR message says "service threshold reached". How can a reasonable person not interpret this message to indicate a service life? The service life is not time based. It is equipment actuation based. So every car can and will have a different time where it will reach the service threshold of the equipment. Your question is answered with the MB bulletin as proof. My 2cents. Remember, it is not a stereo system being discussed. It is the primary means to stop the car. It is not a fluke failure. It is known to occur. I have not had this problem yet in my E, but if I (or most other people) should actually experience this failure at highway speeds, I would not be so nonchalant in discussing whom should be responsible. So that being said...whom do I see about the cup holder?
No offence mate, but this ship has sailed a long time ago. Nothing you mentioned hasnt been said or written from previous posts on this thread. So basically you just wasted your time and im just wasting mine now. Try reviving another thread mate ot better yet start a new thread about SBC so i can just copy paste this link to your new thread. That being said...where do i go to read something worthwhile.
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I am trying to keep statistics and this is 3rd SBC failure reported by actual witness.
You decide if the number compared to years and vehicles with SBC is alarming.
What is still a bit confusing is the backup system.
One of the drivers reported total failure with pedal to the floor. If you play with SBC on stop car - the pedal is going to the floor, or close to it all the time, but you don't push it in normal driving or your wheels would lock.
In this case we hear the story from passenger and I would gladly hear the actual driver side.
Did backup system really fail, or was it just first impression when pedal required much more effort to activate the brakes?
In one of the reported failure the driver said he could safely stop the car and then drive it some distance to a shop.
Lastly the end of counter for SBC activation is not failure. Per report the end of the counter is giving messages for several weeks before putting the car in limp mode.
You decide if the number compared to years and vehicles with SBC is alarming.
What is still a bit confusing is the backup system.
One of the drivers reported total failure with pedal to the floor. If you play with SBC on stop car - the pedal is going to the floor, or close to it all the time, but you don't push it in normal driving or your wheels would lock.
In this case we hear the story from passenger and I would gladly hear the actual driver side.
Did backup system really fail, or was it just first impression when pedal required much more effort to activate the brakes?
In one of the reported failure the driver said he could safely stop the car and then drive it some distance to a shop.
Lastly the end of counter for SBC activation is not failure. Per report the end of the counter is giving messages for several weeks before putting the car in limp mode.
Member
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W211 320CDI -04, W210 270CDI -01
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/sh...t=bosch&page=2
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: dmv
2009 E550 2000 Honda civic mash n' go
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I had my car scanned by friendly technician and his multiplexer did read the SBC pump was manufactured in 2008 (car is 2004) even going into German menu he was not able to find the count.
Lately, thank to fellow forum member I was able to get copy of master inquiry and it did show SBC work in 2008.
The car, originating in NY had some corrosion on engine parts, while the pump look cleaner, so I did expect the pump to be newer, but nice to see confirmation.
Lately, thank to fellow forum member I was able to get copy of master inquiry and it did show SBC work in 2008.
The car, originating in NY had some corrosion on engine parts, while the pump look cleaner, so I did expect the pump to be newer, but nice to see confirmation.
Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 196
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From: Lantana TX
2004 Chrysler Crossfire
I am having an issue like many others. I have a 2004 E500 with 99,000 miles. The car first had the white brake notice which after a week or so turned into the red one. I have never noticed a brake problem and the car stops like it always has. Does this sound like the counter just hit its limit? I am tempted to pay $30 for one of the SBC reset tools. Or I can go to my favorite Indy and pay $130 for a diagnosis that the SBC pump needs to be replaced for $1,300.
I wish I still had my STAR/DAS system but I let it go with the V8 Crossfire. BTW, not too many dealers know about developer mode. It is in every system but requires a special WEP/Key to open it up and it is in German. I know because we used Developer mode to make a MB V8 ECU think it was supposed to be in a Chrysler Crossfire.
I wish I still had my STAR/DAS system but I let it go with the V8 Crossfire. BTW, not too many dealers know about developer mode. It is in every system but requires a special WEP/Key to open it up and it is in German. I know because we used Developer mode to make a MB V8 ECU think it was supposed to be in a Chrysler Crossfire.
