2003mb

a BMW 545i. I loved the look of the new e but wasn't happy with the ride of the whole car. I had the sports package and left it on the stiffest setting and still didn't like the ride. It was like riding a boat. I test drove the new 545i and it was 10 times better handling than the E. Also it has more torque to the motor. When you step on the gas pedal it goes, not like the E where it seems a little slugish. Just want to tell people what I had experienced with the two cars.

bmms8

congrats on your new car, i hope you like it better than the E, have fun with it, just one Q, how many miles did you have on the E, once again, congrats!

2003mb

1000

HELL ONA HARLEY

Good luck with your new ride.... Was wondering why did you choose the e500 first???? Seems the two cars have two different funtions to me. BMW seemed to be more of a sports car first and family car second and the e500 the other way around. Its too bad you could'nt figure it out sooner. It would definatly of cost you a lot less $$$ in the long run... B.T.W what kind of resale did you get on that 500??? Did you trade it or sell it privatly.
Again, goodluck.

2003mb

I fell in love with the looks and really didn't like the looks of the bmw 545. As I drove the e500 I would sort of get a little light headed as if I was sailing on a ship. Mean while after seeing the five series in person and on the road, it kinda grew on me.
I sold if private and lost maybe close to $4800. Big mistake.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Hey bro, nobody is perfect so try not to freak out on the money part.... Get what you want in life as its too short to go with out....
Happy motoring

GearHead

After owning a few bimmers in the past, I do agree that they do make Driver's machine. Unfortunately for the E60 545, for the price they charge, IMHO, BMW is short changing the consumers.

Before going out to get the E500, I had test drove the E60(w/ sport pkg) and was in love with its performance. But the exterior is too retro. I will need time for adjustment. The cheapy interior and the irritating iDrive made me abandon the idea of getting it.

After owning the E500 for a few months, I have to agree the E does ride like a big car when compared to the 5 series. If you can overcome the interior and iDrive issues (that I had) of the Bimmer, and drivability performance is key to you, go for the 545.

Good luck in your decision

Adobe

BMW build world class chassis and provide a very secure and exciting driving experience. Add to that what used to be a great looking body that was well made and you have a very attractive package.

However, even ignoring it's controversial styling, the E60 interior simply kills it for me. It's a disaster! The dash is made up of bits and pieces while the competition have beautifully integrated dashes. The ergonomics stink. It's not just the iDrive but the usual BMW lack of integration with switches and buttons scattered all over the place as if each one was an after thought.

Finally, the quality, fit and finish of the materials continue to be down market compared to Mercedes and Lexus. I won't even mention that wierd stuff they call wood or the plastic coated interior door handles.

It's too bad because consumers really need great products from BMW to provide an alternative to Mercedes' quality problems or Lexus lack of excitement.

JWS3

Be VERY sure you like the BMW. There are already numerous glitches and problems w/ the new 5 series, not the mention its exceedingly polarizing (and, in my NSHO, strikingly ugly) styling both inside and out. No door moldings mean ding-city in no time at all. The iDrive is nearly universally panned and the interior is beyond cheap, with a bizarre and very plain looking dash. I am in a different situation. I've got a 530 and am thinking of a E500. Why? The BMW is just too odd looking and the iDrive too annoying. I thought I'd get a 545 right up until I saw the picture and then sat in one.
If you really like it then consider waiting a year. at least the depreciation won't be as bad and some of the bugs arguably worked out.

Mercedesfan

Curious if you tried the E320 with the sports (appearance) package. As a lighter weight car its agility may have been more to your liking than the 500. The E320 is a closer match to the BMW in some respects.

lpolo

Here is final answer to this and my final opinion: Everyone must read this!!

E500 vs. 545i:
Obviously, majority will choose E500 if they know what they are doing. Exterior: I like 545i a little bit better. The new eyes (even though some people said it is weird), I think it is awesome. It's just like some kind of eagle eyes? In fact, exterior 545i is great, but E500 also did a great job. I am young too and fans of BMW. but....

Problem:
545i interior: totally sucks!!!. I was about buying 545i too, but thinking about spending $60k on the car, I expect some kind of deceent interior. I invited few my friends and girls to come inside and take a look. They don't know if it is BMW. They thought it is $20k car!. BMW interior is just like IKEA furnished furniture. E500 interior is really really great!! Sophisticated, looks rich (especially on 2004 or the one with navigation).

Talking about 545i handling is better than E500? My question is: "how fast are you driving and how often are you driving that fast?" If you often drive like the one in the movie (fast and furious), you can say BMW has better handling and go with BMW (whatever). However, I don't think you are able to drive that fast, that often and that long. In US, cops are everywhere, you will get tickets or will create danger to other cars and pedestrians.

So, in this case, E500 is better choice and reason why I decided to get E500. I WISH: I have a car with 5 series exterior and E-Class interior.

E-Class rules.... hehehe...........

W210

I'm curious what options you have for the 545i? The 545i was rather expensive fully optioned so I'll take a wait and see approach until the M5 gets here.

In the mean time, I'll enjoy my E55. I posted elsewhere if you're a heavy user of the in-car telematics, you may be bitterly disappointed with the 5-series.

glojo

Totally agree with these sentiments. If this was a BMW forum and I elected to sell my new 5 Series with the intention of buying a Mercedes-Benz W211, I should imagine there would be a fair degree of criticism pointed at the E-class.

We all have different tastes (I am one of a minority that own the estate version of this fine automobile) I say good luck, and enjoy your new car.

Regards,
John

aaron300z

Where is the handling?




8,350 RPM without a Turbo or Compressor

Fastbuck

A least it's handling a bit better than this did with its dross Active Steering!


See here

norb

Mercedesfan

Norb - that's great. I thought I was the only one who kept seeing a large pair of sunglasses mounted on the front center of the new BMW's. At least the eagle eye lights on the newest 5 series are an improvement over the other more disasterous recent design experiments coming out of Munich.

MBZman

aaron300z, in response to the "where is handling" that is the base E320, that does not have the optional airmatic suspension and is definitely not the E55.

Adobe

Well, the E60 exterior is growing on me and the back isn't so bad if you pick the right color.

The interior is the problem but it isn't quite as bad when you see it as it looks in pictures.

The hand brake screws up the console and is an example of something that Mercedes wouldn't do, i.e. hand brake with auto transmission.

The wood trim still looks too much like plastic imitation and then there is the dash made up of bits and pieces.

Of course there are the continuing BMW problems (plastic trunk latch, water pumps, radiators, oil filter mounting on the V8, valve cover leaks, carpeting that's well below Lexus and Mercedes standards, leather that's not perforated, ignition lock on the steering column instead of dash). The list goes on but it boils down to driving experience vs. ergonomics and interior quality.

I have to admit that the best long trip I ever took was in a 318I with manual transmission. The seats were small and the engine only had 101 HP. Still, we went from North Carolina to the west coast of BC and back in 2 1/2 weeks and enjoyed every mile. We always looked for winding, two lane roads rather than the Interstate.

bmms8

i dont want to flame, but cant we all just be happy for him, what a way to go out, and remember us by......i think a great handling car just doesnt come with speed, you can take corners with more confidence, and you dont need speed to feel happy, and i dont most people will choose the E if "they know what they are doing" because your just saying that because you have the E, and you like it better, but there are other opinions out there too

Dema

I will probably follow your example. However, I do not want to buy first year production car even BMW, so I'll buy '05 545. I was impressed with active steering. I will take SMG/sport, nav, head-up, bluetooth, sunshades, prem sound. I hope to get invoice.

JWS3

You will not get invoice. BMW does not have the same kind of holdback as MB. You'll be lucky to get 1500-2000 off sticker.

glojo

Could you possibly explain the difference between 'Invoice' and 'Sticker'

Is invoice the price the dealer supposedly buys the car from the manufacturer, and if so, where does he make a profit?

Thank you for any reply,
John

JWS3

"Invoice" is what the dealer pays the mfgr for the car. With some makes, like MB or Ford, etc., there is also a "holdback", or percentage of list (sticker)price that is refunded to the dealer after the sale. It is intended to compensate the dealer for paying for the car while its on the lot unsold. If you order the car the holdback becomes pure profit.
In the US, BMW no longer has a holdback, although there is supposed to be some money given back depending on the dealer's customer satisfaction ratings. I do not know all the details on this.
Thus, the dealer's profit is the difference between the invoice and the window sticker price.

Adobe

http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/pricingmaze.html

Holdback for MBUSA (for example) is 3% of the MSRP and has a life span of 90 days. A dealer orders a car from MBUSA and pays Invoice for it. MBUSA then starts a clock on an the holdback so that if the dealer sells the car right away, Mercedes will send them back a check for the total holdback. If the dealer sells the car after 45 days, he gets a check for half the holdback and so on. The value of the holdback goes to zero after 90 days.

A mercedes dealer can also make an additional 1-2% depending on how well they are judged by MBUSA.

Edmunds and Yahoo used to tell you the percentage of holdback but stopped doing it. They do say that the holdback is not something a dealer will negotiate with.

Of course with American cars the whole buying process is insane. There are dealers who will tell you they'll pay off your credit card if you buy a new car from them. It makes you wonder what they are really paying the manufacturer for the car.

BMW used to have holdbacks and I don't know why they would stop. It's just not publicized anymore. Of course the newer the model, the less opportunity you have to get a great deal. However, you are probably going to pay more in tax and license fees than the dealer makes on the car. You are probably also going to lose more on the used car you trade in (rather than sell) than the dealer will make on the new car and you will certainly pay more if you finance the purchase than if you just took the money out of the bank and paid cash for the car.

I personally think that you should choose a car very carefully so you won't be buying one very often, that you should sell your old car yourself and that you should NOT finance the deal. Dealer profit then isn't all that important.