No start for about 2 - 3 hours after engine switch off
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Newbie
Joined: Jun 2018
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W 211 E 350 T 2006
No start for about 2 - 3 hours after engine switch off
W 211 E 350 2006
The car runs well, sometimes I get FC P0172 & P0175
After engine switch off, restart is possible within 5 minutes, after that time car does not start for 2 - 3 hours, than starts normally und runs well until the next engine switch off.
This is consistent.
With not starting I mean the engine cranks but does not fire. It does not fire because there is no pressure on the fuel rail.
After the waiting time of 2 - 3 hours when I switch on the ignition fuel pressure is established immediately.
After switch off the engine for more than 5 min the fuel pump is not activated anymore because the fuel pump relay does not get activated,
I changed the fuel pump, unit left and right, the problem remains, I changed the fuel pump relay, the problem remains.
If I know I will stop for a short time, I will switch off the engine and immediately switch on the ignition and leave it on without starting the car,
on my return I can start the car.
My conclusion is that the engine management computer receives some sensor info that prevents the activation of the fuel pump.
But that is just a guess.
I changed Crank position sensor as well as cam position sensor, the problem remains.
The car runs well, sometimes I get FC P0172 & P0175
After engine switch off, restart is possible within 5 minutes, after that time car does not start for 2 - 3 hours, than starts normally und runs well until the next engine switch off.
This is consistent.
With not starting I mean the engine cranks but does not fire. It does not fire because there is no pressure on the fuel rail.
After the waiting time of 2 - 3 hours when I switch on the ignition fuel pressure is established immediately.
After switch off the engine for more than 5 min the fuel pump is not activated anymore because the fuel pump relay does not get activated,
I changed the fuel pump, unit left and right, the problem remains, I changed the fuel pump relay, the problem remains.
If I know I will stop for a short time, I will switch off the engine and immediately switch on the ignition and leave it on without starting the car,
on my return I can start the car.
My conclusion is that the engine management computer receives some sensor info that prevents the activation of the fuel pump.
But that is just a guess.
I changed Crank position sensor as well as cam position sensor, the problem remains.
Last edited by Axelpuhl; Jun 7, 2018 at 04:46 AM.
Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 101
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From: Los Angeles
2005 E500 AMG Appearance Pkg
I had similar problem but I was dealing with more than one thing plus a no crank no start. You say it cranks but doesn't start so not exactly
the same. I changed both sensors as well. In addition to no crank no start my shifter would get stuck in Park. Anyway I mention because it didnt
happen all at once at first I couldn't get out of reverse then I couldn't get out of park without doing the manual over ride and of course at around the
same time if I shut the car off for longer than 5 minutes I would have to wait 3 hours before it cooled down enough to restart. I don't remember exactly
what fixed it or if it was a combination of things but what I was going to mention before typing way too much was that at around the same time
I had the fuel pump replaced as well but I did this at the dealer for free. There is an extended warranty, you may still be covered. I think it was
15 yrs or 120,000 miles something like that. It was a considerable amount of time, have the dealer look at it, they might find something wrong
with it as the warranty covers your fuel tank fuel pump and fuel sending units so perhaps the crank but no start issue lies somewhere within that
terminology. You can apply for reimbursement if the work wasn't done at the dealership.
the same. I changed both sensors as well. In addition to no crank no start my shifter would get stuck in Park. Anyway I mention because it didnt
happen all at once at first I couldn't get out of reverse then I couldn't get out of park without doing the manual over ride and of course at around the
same time if I shut the car off for longer than 5 minutes I would have to wait 3 hours before it cooled down enough to restart. I don't remember exactly
what fixed it or if it was a combination of things but what I was going to mention before typing way too much was that at around the same time
I had the fuel pump replaced as well but I did this at the dealer for free. There is an extended warranty, you may still be covered. I think it was
15 yrs or 120,000 miles something like that. It was a considerable amount of time, have the dealer look at it, they might find something wrong
with it as the warranty covers your fuel tank fuel pump and fuel sending units so perhaps the crank but no start issue lies somewhere within that
terminology. You can apply for reimbursement if the work wasn't done at the dealership.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2018
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W 211 E 350 T 2006
Many thanks for your reply, I have to drive about 600 km to get to a decent MB workshop.
It is now to long to describe everything I did and changed (fuel pump also)
After extensive measuring the problem seem to be that after engine switch off, irrespective how long the engine was running 1 min or 5 hours, if one waits longer than about five minutes the engine will crank but not start.
It will not start because the relay that switches the fuel pump does not get activated (by the ECM I guess)
From here I do not get any further and have no information why the ECM, if it is the ECM, will do so.
It is now to long to describe everything I did and changed (fuel pump also)
After extensive measuring the problem seem to be that after engine switch off, irrespective how long the engine was running 1 min or 5 hours, if one waits longer than about five minutes the engine will crank but not start.
It will not start because the relay that switches the fuel pump does not get activated (by the ECM I guess)
From here I do not get any further and have no information why the ECM, if it is the ECM, will do so.
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From: Republic of Texas
'99 and '05 E55 AMG
Fuel pump relay is activated by the rear SAM. SAM may have a fault in it or it may be your idea of a bad sensor. If it is a sensor, most likely is the crankshaft position sensor; if the ECM does not receive a signal indicating the engine is running, the ECM will shut off the fuel pump as a safety feature (plus it seems that an old CPS is heat sensitive but I would expect that to cause your engine to stop running while driving; a slight puzzle here). I do not know if your car has a camshaft position sensor but that is another one to look at. You really need an OBD2 code reader that logs data so you can look at the sensor values when running and when it fails.
Member
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Posts: 101
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From: Los Angeles
2005 E500 AMG Appearance Pkg
he says he replaced both camshaft and crank position sensor so since you cant get to the dealer which is unfortunate because im pretty certain your 06
would be included in the extended warranty, bbirdwell's suggestion of getting an obdii reader is the best thing to do. it could be a simple overlook kind of
mistake perhaps the wiring to the fuel pump when you replaced it were installed reversed (this happened by accident to me in the past). Personally i do not
think the ECM or rear SAM needs to be replaced. try and get an MBII by icarsoft or call the dealer and verify that the extended warranty for fuel sending units
(tank/pump etc) applies to your car and you are within the limits and if so inform them about your situation if you cant start the car in order to get there maybe
they have some kind of solution or suggestion. you have already determined that the fuel pump is not activated when you attempt to restart the car
(im sure you have tried replacing the relay) so it is certainly a part of the fuel sending process that benz would inspect anyway in regards to warranty.
would be included in the extended warranty, bbirdwell's suggestion of getting an obdii reader is the best thing to do. it could be a simple overlook kind of
mistake perhaps the wiring to the fuel pump when you replaced it were installed reversed (this happened by accident to me in the past). Personally i do not
think the ECM or rear SAM needs to be replaced. try and get an MBII by icarsoft or call the dealer and verify that the extended warranty for fuel sending units
(tank/pump etc) applies to your car and you are within the limits and if so inform them about your situation if you cant start the car in order to get there maybe
they have some kind of solution or suggestion. you have already determined that the fuel pump is not activated when you attempt to restart the car
(im sure you have tried replacing the relay) so it is certainly a part of the fuel sending process that benz would inspect anyway in regards to warranty.
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W 211 E 350 T 2006
Many thanks to everybody for your input. I started actually by replacing the crankshaft sensor and the camshaft sensors, that did not change anything. As I mentioned before the car starts actually fine, when it has been standing for a couple of hours and runs very well, so I assume if it would be bad wiring I would have problems when the car is running, but not so, the car runs well, idles well, accelerates well.
Only after switch off, when one waits longer than 5 minutes, it has the problem that it cranks but does not start because, no power to fuel pump, because the relay for the fuel pump is not activated.
I do not have much info on the car but I assume that there must be a sequence of events that have to be O.K. for the car to start and maybe one item in that sequence is missing.
It is a strange problem and it might well be that it is a tiny little thing, but I do not know where to look anymore.
I have a fault reader, but the fault recorded are, that happens during the times when it does not starts, are left and right bank mixture is to lean, yes because it does not get fuel !
Only after switch off, when one waits longer than 5 minutes, it has the problem that it cranks but does not start because, no power to fuel pump, because the relay for the fuel pump is not activated.
I do not have much info on the car but I assume that there must be a sequence of events that have to be O.K. for the car to start and maybe one item in that sequence is missing.
It is a strange problem and it might well be that it is a tiny little thing, but I do not know where to look anymore.
I have a fault reader, but the fault recorded are, that happens during the times when it does not starts, are left and right bank mixture is to lean, yes because it does not get fuel !
Member
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 101
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From: Los Angeles
2005 E500 AMG Appearance Pkg
MBII code reader will tell you if the conditions necessary to allow the car to start are present. (Yes vs No)
It is designed for and only reads Mercedes codes, you should get one whenever possible goodluck
It is designed for and only reads Mercedes codes, you should get one whenever possible goodluck
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2007 cls550
I’ve been reading similar problems in the W204 forum where a guy is pouring a bottle of water on the ECM and it fires right up. He is considering sending the ECM out for repair. You might want to take a test drive with a bottle of water. I think another was trying to pour water down on the crank sensor as a test.
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Thread Starter
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W 211 E 350 T 2006
Hi + thanks 95 Viper,
It is correct that in electronic one can get intermittent faults that are based on components getting to hot.
In general , apart from a few exceptions, heat is the arch enemy of electronics, so is water in cable looms and multipoint sockets and plugs.
In electronic shops one will find a spray that is called "Freezing Spray" . This is designed to check if components are prone to the problem as mentioned above.
Short burst of freezing spray will cool the component down.
I did this on various components of the engine and also the ECM, all was fine hot or cold.
It is correct that in electronic one can get intermittent faults that are based on components getting to hot.
In general , apart from a few exceptions, heat is the arch enemy of electronics, so is water in cable looms and multipoint sockets and plugs.
In electronic shops one will find a spray that is called "Freezing Spray" . This is designed to check if components are prone to the problem as mentioned above.
Short burst of freezing spray will cool the component down.
I did this on various components of the engine and also the ECM, all was fine hot or cold.
