CLS as psychological proxy
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From: Bay Area
2004 E500
CLS as psychological proxy
Like others, I like the CLS from some angles and not others. Future-thought: Is the CLS preparing our eyes for the new W221 S class? Is the fugly (to my eyes) E60 5-series BMW preparing us for something that looks good in the future? I’ve noticed that certain cars prepare us for an evolution. The AMC Pacer and Gremlin are examples. Ugly as they were, they prepared us for a packaging revolution that followed -- some good, some bad. Though I’m a W211 lover, I really hated the looks of the last W210 E-class. I thought the headlights were outrageously ugly. They barely improved with the freshening when they were canted back more. Then lo and behold, I totally fell in love with the looks of the W211, especially the headlights and bought one (after 20 years of 5-series ownership). In some unconscious way, I think the (still ugly to my eyes) W210 prepared my favorable perception of the W211. So, specifically, here are my questions:
Will the E65 7-series BMW Bangle-butt prepare us to like the little hump on the W221 S class? Will the Dame Edna eyes of the E60 5-series prepare us to like the headlights on the W221 S class? Will the fast back “gangsta” deuce-coupe look of the CLS prepare us to like the more sloped roofline of the W221 S class? Do designers prepare us for their eventual target designs with severe examples on low volume models and then throttle it back for high production models?
Case for “Yes”: The 7-series bubble butt prepared me to accept the mini-hump of the W221
Case for “No”: I hated Bangle’s Z9 concept car and increased my loathing as BMW rolled out the 7-series, 5 series and 6 series featuring the fugly butt.
Will the E65 7-series BMW Bangle-butt prepare us to like the little hump on the W221 S class? Will the Dame Edna eyes of the E60 5-series prepare us to like the headlights on the W221 S class? Will the fast back “gangsta” deuce-coupe look of the CLS prepare us to like the more sloped roofline of the W221 S class? Do designers prepare us for their eventual target designs with severe examples on low volume models and then throttle it back for high production models?
Case for “Yes”: The 7-series bubble butt prepared me to accept the mini-hump of the W221
Case for “No”: I hated Bangle’s Z9 concept car and increased my loathing as BMW rolled out the 7-series, 5 series and 6 series featuring the fugly butt.
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'14 E350 wagon; BMW G12 (2020) G01 (2019)
An interesting theory but car companies need to make money today not just tomorrow. If your theory was right they'd need to be prepared to forgo substantial profits on short term sales in order to create new profits on long terms sales. In a market as competitive as auto sales, you could never be sure of recouping the losses, so I think the theory does not hold if what you are talking about is some deliberateness on the part of the car companies. From a purely "gut reaction" standpoint, does one generation of cars create styling cues that could lead to wider acceptance? Maybe. Maybe not. Think Edsel. Think old style Citroens. Think Saab. They have limited followings and do not create wider acceptance for their styling.
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This is the kind of stuff I love on the forums. It's actually intelligent discussion.
However, I loved the Pacer and Gremlin, and occasionally look for a Gremlin when I get the chance. If anyone has a Gremlin X with 304 engine in good shape, willing to sell, I am in the market. Prefer 73-74.
-s-
However, I loved the Pacer and Gremlin, and occasionally look for a Gremlin when I get the chance. If anyone has a Gremlin X with 304 engine in good shape, willing to sell, I am in the market. Prefer 73-74.
-s-
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'08 AM Vantage V8 - '03 E500
Ah, so many good questions, grasshopper! You're asking if the designers themselves "prepare" us for future evolution along the same lines, not whether the companies plan it that way, but the company management would have to buy into such long-range design planning. I don't think that's how they work any more. The days of the Raymond Loewy/Harley Earl design auteur are gone, despite all the attention given to Chris Bangle. Car companies design their cars to sell when they hit the showroom, not to pave the way for some paradigm shift down the road. I don't doubt that every loathsome crease and bustle to spring from the brow of Chris Bangle was approved by focus groups of potential buyers long before it got translated into sheet metal. Those of us who despise the current direction of BMW styling have been eagerly studying the sales figures for the new 5, 7 and Z for proof that BMW blew it, but the results are ambiguous at best. We may not like it, but car companies don't take their styling in a new direction without building a good business case for the change.
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From: THE NAPA VALLEY, CA
Build date 2-04 E500
Let me knock to level of this conversation down a bit and add....
I think its far less complicated. Automakers probably use an idea from one of there up and coming younger designers and use the old... "run it up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes it" approch...If its liked, then we incorporate it into next years ideas....Thus your evolution.
I think its far less complicated. Automakers probably use an idea from one of there up and coming younger designers and use the old... "run it up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes it" approch...If its liked, then we incorporate it into next years ideas....Thus your evolution.
Last edited by HELL ONA HARLEY; Aug 15, 2004 at 12:22 PM.
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2005 E320
Hindsight is 20/20. What may look like a preparative design for a longer-term design scheme, in order to "prepare us" for what's to follow, may in fact be the natural evolution of the design process and continual improvements upon that design.
I think it is just hard for people, whether it be about cars or anything else in life, to accept change of any kind. We like being comfortable with what we have, it makes things predictable. When we settle with the fact that we have no choice but to acept change we look upon that change with different eyes.
I think it is just hard for people, whether it be about cars or anything else in life, to accept change of any kind. We like being comfortable with what we have, it makes things predictable. When we settle with the fact that we have no choice but to acept change we look upon that change with different eyes.
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In September 2003 we needed a new car because a red-light runner had just offed our '97 BMW 528i. I had seen the pictures of the upcoming '04 5-Series and I had no desire whatsoever to "accept change." I did in fact have a "choice", and that's why I'm driving a Benz now, not a BMW like we had been driving since 1984. I'm still seeing the new 5-Series with the same eyes that I had when I saw the first spy photos of it, and to me it's still bufugly. As it so happens, it's also selling reasonably well. BMW management made a conscious decision to reach out to a younger demo with the new styling, and from a purely business perspective, it will probably turn out to be a smart move on their part.
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I'm not saying that everyone will eventually like every change. Just that there are a percentage of those who reject it initially and grow to like or event love it.
Everybody is always entitled to their opinion. Even if I don't like some change initially, I force myself to at least give it some time to let it sink in before I make up my mind. Then, if I still don't care for it, at least I know it's genuine and not because I comfortable with the old.
Personally with the new 5, I hated both inside and out initially. Since then, I've come to grow to like the agressive exterior, but don't think I could ever come to appreciate the rather blah (IMHO) interior.
Everybody is always entitled to their opinion. Even if I don't like some change initially, I force myself to at least give it some time to let it sink in before I make up my mind. Then, if I still don't care for it, at least I know it's genuine and not because I comfortable with the old.
Personally with the new 5, I hated both inside and out initially. Since then, I've come to grow to like the agressive exterior, but don't think I could ever come to appreciate the rather blah (IMHO) interior.
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