Jun 17, 2015, 07:47 PM
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E320 suspension - I don't get it. Rough.
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E320 suspension - I don't get it. Rough.
Is it just me, or is the regular E320 suspension very poorly tuned?
I've adjusted tire pressure from 29psi up to 40psi all the way around. Regardless, this car is very jarring over medium to large bumps in the road. When cornering, if ONE wheel hits a bump, the entire front end skirts to the side. So much for independant suspension.
Are they trying to compete with BMW by transfering more bumps to the cabin? The real trick is to communicate the little stuff yet soften the blow of medium and larger bumps. Somehow, Mercedes managed to hide the small stuff completely, make the car hop sideways in a corner over medium or larger bumps, and make large bumps very rough, and yet STILL have the thing float around up and down like a Cadilac!
I love the car, but the suspension tuning could have been done by a Kindergarten class (with no stated objective).
So far, I'm happiest with higher pressure (at 36.5psi today). At least it doesn't float as much. The bumps are jarring regardless of pressure.
I used to drive a 330i with sport suspension with Pole Position S-03 tires at 37+ psi, so don't classify me as a wussy who can't handle feedback. This is flat out poor tuning. I'm sure we have some marketing morons to thank for it.
The 5 series with sport suspension is far superior in this regard. More firm, yet less jarring. If it weren't for the stiff runflat tires, it would probably be perfect.
Comments?
I've adjusted tire pressure from 29psi up to 40psi all the way around. Regardless, this car is very jarring over medium to large bumps in the road. When cornering, if ONE wheel hits a bump, the entire front end skirts to the side. So much for independant suspension.
Are they trying to compete with BMW by transfering more bumps to the cabin? The real trick is to communicate the little stuff yet soften the blow of medium and larger bumps. Somehow, Mercedes managed to hide the small stuff completely, make the car hop sideways in a corner over medium or larger bumps, and make large bumps very rough, and yet STILL have the thing float around up and down like a Cadilac!
I love the car, but the suspension tuning could have been done by a Kindergarten class (with no stated objective).
So far, I'm happiest with higher pressure (at 36.5psi today). At least it doesn't float as much. The bumps are jarring regardless of pressure.
I used to drive a 330i with sport suspension with Pole Position S-03 tires at 37+ psi, so don't classify me as a wussy who can't handle feedback. This is flat out poor tuning. I'm sure we have some marketing morons to thank for it.
The 5 series with sport suspension is far superior in this regard. More firm, yet less jarring. If it weren't for the stiff runflat tires, it would probably be perfect.
Comments?
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More questions:
Any idea why the car rides fairly rough? Would different bushings make a difference?
Is the suspension aluminum like the E60, or is it steel?
I would think with 16 inch wheels, the unsprung weight would be very reasonable. Wouldn't that make tuning out the bumps very easy?
Maybe Mercedes customers of old are expecting a certain road feel and they tried to preserve that. To me, the suspension feels dated by a minimum of 20 years.
Any idea why the car rides fairly rough? Would different bushings make a difference?
Is the suspension aluminum like the E60, or is it steel?
I would think with 16 inch wheels, the unsprung weight would be very reasonable. Wouldn't that make tuning out the bumps very easy?
Maybe Mercedes customers of old are expecting a certain road feel and they tried to preserve that. To me, the suspension feels dated by a minimum of 20 years.
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06 320E CDI, Porsche 911 C2, Pontiac Montana
What? I run my tires at 35 psi and the car rides great. I live in Toronto and it's not exactly cow paths but even over rougher pavement, I don't have any problem with the ride.
What tires are you running and where do you live?
What tires are you running and where do you live?
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From: Sacramento
'08 AM Vantage V8 - '03 E500
It's not your imagination, C.O. I've got an E500, and you would think that the air suspension would totally change the ride/handling equation, but it doesn't. I've been complaining for as long as I've had the car (one year next month) that for a supposed luxury car, it sure has a rough, jolting and noisy ride on a less-than-perfect road surface. I don't find that it floats, which may be a difference between the E320 and the E500, but I can sure relate to your comments about the jarring ride and the poor isolation from road irregularities.
I've had the opportunity to make a BMW/M-B comparison, too. Our previous car was a '97 (E39) 5-Series. The folks in Munich are as brilliant at tuning suspensions as the people in Stuttgart are clueless. Our E39 was a remarkable combination of supple and quiet ride and tack-sharp handling.
I can't stand the exterior or interior of the current 5-Series, so I'm seriously considering going downmarket to an Acura TL or Infiniti G35.
I've had the opportunity to make a BMW/M-B comparison, too. Our previous car was a '97 (E39) 5-Series. The folks in Munich are as brilliant at tuning suspensions as the people in Stuttgart are clueless. Our E39 was a remarkable combination of supple and quiet ride and tack-sharp handling.
I can't stand the exterior or interior of the current 5-Series, so I'm seriously considering going downmarket to an Acura TL or Infiniti G35.
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From: Christchurch, New Zealand
17 E220D, 11 E350 CDI(sold), 06 CLS320 CDI (sold), 05 Cadillac DeVille (gone), 04 E320 CDI (sold)
Can you tell us what options you have fitted? e.g. Airmatic suspension, sports package? wheel size and tire choice?
My E320 certainly doesn't behave like yours, I find it the nicest riding car I've driven for a long time, and the handling is quite acceptable given what it is trying to achieve.
My E320 certainly doesn't behave like yours, I find it the nicest riding car I've driven for a long time, and the handling is quite acceptable given what it is trying to achieve.
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From: California
2014 C250 sport
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious
Is it just me, or is the regular E320 suspension very poorly tuned?
I've adjusted tire pressure from 29psi up to 40psi all the way around. Regardless, this car is very jarring over medium to large bumps in the road. When cornering, if ONE wheel hits a bump, the entire front end skirts to the side. So much for independant suspension.
Are they trying to compete with BMW by transfering more bumps to the cabin? The real trick is to communicate the little stuff yet soften the blow of medium and larger bumps. Somehow, Mercedes managed to hide the small stuff completely, make the car hop sideways in a corner over medium or larger bumps, and make large bumps very rough, and yet STILL have the thing float around up and down like a Cadilac!
I love the car, but the suspension tuning could have been done by a Kindergarten class (with no stated objective).
So far, I'm happiest with higher pressure (at 36.5psi today). At least it doesn't float as much. The bumps are jarring regardless of pressure.
I used to drive a 330i with sport suspension with Pole Position S-03 tires at 37+ psi, so don't classify me as a wussy who can't handle feedback. This is flat out poor tuning. I'm sure we have some marketing morons to thank for it.
The 5 series with sport suspension is far superior in this regard. More firm, yet less jarring. If it weren't for the stiff runflat tires, it would probably be perfect.
Comments?
I've adjusted tire pressure from 29psi up to 40psi all the way around. Regardless, this car is very jarring over medium to large bumps in the road. When cornering, if ONE wheel hits a bump, the entire front end skirts to the side. So much for independant suspension.
Are they trying to compete with BMW by transfering more bumps to the cabin? The real trick is to communicate the little stuff yet soften the blow of medium and larger bumps. Somehow, Mercedes managed to hide the small stuff completely, make the car hop sideways in a corner over medium or larger bumps, and make large bumps very rough, and yet STILL have the thing float around up and down like a Cadilac!
I love the car, but the suspension tuning could have been done by a Kindergarten class (with no stated objective).
So far, I'm happiest with higher pressure (at 36.5psi today). At least it doesn't float as much. The bumps are jarring regardless of pressure.
I used to drive a 330i with sport suspension with Pole Position S-03 tires at 37+ psi, so don't classify me as a wussy who can't handle feedback. This is flat out poor tuning. I'm sure we have some marketing morons to thank for it.
The 5 series with sport suspension is far superior in this regard. More firm, yet less jarring. If it weren't for the stiff runflat tires, it would probably be perfect.
Comments?
The "new" E-class has a reasonably smooth ride, but I do agree, it could be better and its leaning too much on the firm side. However,the chassis feels very rigid and strong, and there's no booming noises, and a lot less road noise compared with the W210. The E-class does have capable handling though.
PS--If you really want a smooth and quiet ride (but with no handling capabilities), get a Lexus LS 430 :p
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From: Southern California
Ok, let me ask the obvious questions. What kind of tires are you using? What suspension (airmatic?) is on the car? If comfort is a priority, why are you inflating the tires above the factory recommendation? What is your driving style? Autobahn burner or leisure cruise? What road surfaces are you driving on?
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Luxury1, Did you have an E39 or an E60?
I think the W211 rides rougher than an E39 with sport package. The E39 let the little stuff through (surface texture), but not the bigger stuff. The ride of the W211 makes it feel heavier than it is, and maybe that was their goal
My car doesn't feel floaty with the tire pressure at the current 36.5psi. It did when I went 29 all the way around. I realize that this is lower than MB suggests for the rear.
I also find the car to be surprisingly noisy over textured pavement. I suspect the tires are a major contributor (neither of the stock tires were well reviewed at tirerack). I also wonder if having tinted windows (and therefore the inside rubber seals rubber replaced with fuzzy felt stuff) might contribute also.
Like I said, I love the car. I did ride in a 10 year old Lexus ES300 that was quieter and less bumpy though. I'd expect more for a car in this class.
I think the W211 rides rougher than an E39 with sport package. The E39 let the little stuff through (surface texture), but not the bigger stuff. The ride of the W211 makes it feel heavier than it is, and maybe that was their goal
My car doesn't feel floaty with the tire pressure at the current 36.5psi. It did when I went 29 all the way around. I realize that this is lower than MB suggests for the rear.
I also find the car to be surprisingly noisy over textured pavement. I suspect the tires are a major contributor (neither of the stock tires were well reviewed at tirerack). I also wonder if having tinted windows (and therefore the inside rubber seals rubber replaced with fuzzy felt stuff) might contribute also.
Like I said, I love the car. I did ride in a 10 year old Lexus ES300 that was quieter and less bumpy though. I'd expect more for a car in this class.
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
Purely an opinion - I think this car is optimized for high speed cruising. That is when it seems happiest to me.
The ride / noise level in the city is a bit higher than I would have liked.
The car just feels better at speed. In the city I find the steering ratio to be impossibly slow - at speed it feels just fine.
In the city I think the throttle response / transmission response can be funky. At speed - no problem.
In the city - I think the brake "feel" is awful. At speed - the brakes are excellent.
The ride / noise level in the city is a bit higher than I would have liked.
The car just feels better at speed. In the city I find the steering ratio to be impossibly slow - at speed it feels just fine.
In the city I think the throttle response / transmission response can be funky. At speed - no problem.
In the city - I think the brake "feel" is awful. At speed - the brakes are excellent.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Southern California
I think you hit a good point. For this particular MB, the ride seems to be somewhere between a Lexus and a BMW. Lexus being the smoothest ride and BMW being the sportiest luxury ride. The E seems somewhere in the middle of the two.
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
I "love" how you have to manually "un-turn" the wheel to center after turning a corner! What's that all about? Just like the rudder on a ship! ...Just nit picking, though.
Last edited by Barry45RPM; Aug 23, 2004 at 02:37 PM.
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
Originally Posted by Barry45RPM
I "love" how you have to manually "un-turn" the wheel to center after turning a corner! What's that all about? ...Just nit picking, though.
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Joined: May 2004
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From: Warren, NJ
'05 E320 CDI;'04 S2k;'94 Supra TT;'10 QX56;'38 Buick;98 Port City Offset Late Model
Positive caster causes a self-centering. Is there something in the power steering defeating this?
Obiviously it would be nice if you specify which brand, model, and size of tire you have when reporting handling and ride issues.
Thanks,
David
Obiviously it would be nice if you specify which brand, model, and size of tire you have when reporting handling and ride issues.
Thanks,
David
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lig,
Good point. The car may be optimized for higher speeds. Hadn't thought about that.
I do agree steering is a little slow around town, but I drive this car slower than I drove my 330i, so I guess it doesn't bother me much.
FYI, I believe my tires are Michelin MXV4 Plus or something like that.
Good point. The car may be optimized for higher speeds. Hadn't thought about that.
I do agree steering is a little slow around town, but I drive this car slower than I drove my 330i, so I guess it doesn't bother me much.
FYI, I believe my tires are Michelin MXV4 Plus or something like that.
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From: Toronto
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious
Is it just me, or is the regular E320 suspension very poorly tuned?
I've adjusted tire pressure from 29psi up to 40psi all the way around. Regardless, this car is very jarring over medium to large bumps in the road. When cornering, if ONE wheel hits a bump, the entire front end skirts to the side. So much for independant suspension.
Are they trying to compete with BMW by transfering more bumps to the cabin? The real trick is to communicate the little stuff yet soften the blow of medium and larger bumps. Somehow, Mercedes managed to hide the small stuff completely, make the car hop sideways in a corner over medium or larger bumps, and make large bumps very rough, and yet STILL have the thing float around up and down like a Cadilac!
I love the car, but the suspension tuning could have been done by a Kindergarten class (with no stated objective).
So far, I'm happiest with higher pressure (at 36.5psi today). At least it doesn't float as much. The bumps are jarring regardless of pressure.
I used to drive a 330i with sport suspension with Pole Position S-03 tires at 37+ psi, so don't classify me as a wussy who can't handle feedback. This is flat out poor tuning. I'm sure we have some marketing morons to thank for it.
The 5 series with sport suspension is far superior in this regard. More firm, yet less jarring. If it weren't for the stiff runflat tires, it would probably be perfect.
Comments?
I've adjusted tire pressure from 29psi up to 40psi all the way around. Regardless, this car is very jarring over medium to large bumps in the road. When cornering, if ONE wheel hits a bump, the entire front end skirts to the side. So much for independant suspension.
Are they trying to compete with BMW by transfering more bumps to the cabin? The real trick is to communicate the little stuff yet soften the blow of medium and larger bumps. Somehow, Mercedes managed to hide the small stuff completely, make the car hop sideways in a corner over medium or larger bumps, and make large bumps very rough, and yet STILL have the thing float around up and down like a Cadilac!
I love the car, but the suspension tuning could have been done by a Kindergarten class (with no stated objective).
So far, I'm happiest with higher pressure (at 36.5psi today). At least it doesn't float as much. The bumps are jarring regardless of pressure.
I used to drive a 330i with sport suspension with Pole Position S-03 tires at 37+ psi, so don't classify me as a wussy who can't handle feedback. This is flat out poor tuning. I'm sure we have some marketing morons to thank for it.
The 5 series with sport suspension is far superior in this regard. More firm, yet less jarring. If it weren't for the stiff runflat tires, it would probably be perfect.
Comments?
Super Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 758
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From: Warren, NJ
'05 E320 CDI;'04 S2k;'94 Supra TT;'10 QX56;'38 Buick;98 Port City Offset Late Model
Bilstein offers several different replacement shocks for the W211 in Germany, however none for Bilstein USA. My experience is that the Bilsteins solve alot of problems. That said, isn't the Airmatic DC a Bilstein product?
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From: Sunny Fort Lauderdale, FL USA
2004 E500 w/ AMG Sport Package
it depends on what you're looking for. I am very new owner and I bought my E500 because I wanted a sport sedan. Remember the E55 is the fastest Sport Sedan On the planet. So i expected a bumpy ride especially with the AMG Sports pkg. with that said the ride could be better. I feel when the suspesnion is adjusting and that sucks. My GS300 was a far more smoother car, but the E Class definately handles the road better.
I bet you the S Class has a way more smoother suspension, and the CL over the SL.
I bet you the S Class has a way more smoother suspension, and the CL over the SL.
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From: Sunny Fort Lauderdale, FL USA
2004 E500 w/ AMG Sport Package
Originally Posted by Barry45RPM
I "love" how you have to manually "un-turn" the wheel to center after turning a corner! What's that all about? Just like the rudder on a ship! ...Just nit picking, though.
drive me nuts too....many times i've let go the steering wheel only to realize i gotta "unturn" it.
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From: Warren, NJ
'05 E320 CDI;'04 S2k;'94 Supra TT;'10 QX56;'38 Buick;98 Port City Offset Late Model
Can some of the current CDI owners chime in? I recall think that an E320 we test drove in February was a bit rough, crashing in to bumps like railroad tracks. However, seeking out railroad tracks in two CDI test drives, the problem seemed minimized. I wonder if the 200# of added weight on the nose makes a difference.
It is my understanding (which may be wrong) that low frequency shock stiffness affects handling over low frequency bumps and through corners, and high frequency stiffness affects ride over sharper bumps like railroad track, expansion joints, and potholes.
In earlier times shocks got stiffer at higher frequency, creating a loose floating feeling while still banging into bumps. Digressive shocks do just the opposite, providing firm control over body movement while being relatively soft over high frequency bumps.
It sounds like a shock problem...IMHO.
It is my understanding (which may be wrong) that low frequency shock stiffness affects handling over low frequency bumps and through corners, and high frequency stiffness affects ride over sharper bumps like railroad track, expansion joints, and potholes.
In earlier times shocks got stiffer at higher frequency, creating a loose floating feeling while still banging into bumps. Digressive shocks do just the opposite, providing firm control over body movement while being relatively soft over high frequency bumps.
It sounds like a shock problem...IMHO.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Texas
05 E320 CDI
Originally Posted by DavidNJ
Can some of the current CDI owners chime in?
