Confession Time
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From: Torquay, England
E-class E300e Estate, Sprinter (stretched limo)
Confession Time
Humble Pie tastes quite nice, I know, I'm eating some right now.
For months I have defended the OUTRAGEOUS claims that the 320CDI is noisey!!!
I had read an interesting article that stated the diesel was quieter than its petrol equivalent at every speed other than tick-over. Unfortunately I could not locate that article to substantiate this claim.
So I contacted Mercedes-Benz of Germany and asked them for any information that might be helpful.
Humble Pie time:
320 CDI (S211)
Standing 49 Decibel
Passing by 72 Decibel
Inside at 50kmh 56 Decibel
Inside at 100 kmh 63 Decibel
Inside at 130 kmh 67 Decibel
E320 (W211)
Standing 43 Decibel
Passing by 69 Decibel
Inside at 50kmh 53 Decibel
Inside at 100 kmh 63 Decibel
Inside at 130 kmh 67 Decibel
You might notice that one is a 'S' and the petrol is a 'W' (crafty critta's were definitely sticking the knife into me there) The good news though is that at 'Nitty Gritty' speeds they both have the same noise level.
Sorry for any inconvienance I might have caused,
Regards,
John
Still a misty morning in Torquay
For months I have defended the OUTRAGEOUS claims that the 320CDI is noisey!!!
I had read an interesting article that stated the diesel was quieter than its petrol equivalent at every speed other than tick-over. Unfortunately I could not locate that article to substantiate this claim.
So I contacted Mercedes-Benz of Germany and asked them for any information that might be helpful.
Humble Pie time:
320 CDI (S211)
Standing 49 Decibel
Passing by 72 Decibel
Inside at 50kmh 56 Decibel
Inside at 100 kmh 63 Decibel
Inside at 130 kmh 67 Decibel
E320 (W211)
Standing 43 Decibel
Passing by 69 Decibel
Inside at 50kmh 53 Decibel
Inside at 100 kmh 63 Decibel
Inside at 130 kmh 67 Decibel
You might notice that one is a 'S' and the petrol is a 'W' (crafty critta's were definitely sticking the knife into me there) The good news though is that at 'Nitty Gritty' speeds they both have the same noise level.
Sorry for any inconvienance I might have caused,
Regards,
John
Still a misty morning in Torquay
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 271
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From: Hertfordshire, UK
ML 320 CDI
It's funny that you have posted this. An old freind has just purchased a W211 E320 CDI on mine and others recomendations and he hates it. The main problem he says is that it is so noisy with virtually no torque. He reckons he has to thrash it everywhere to get the thing moving and can't hear himself think at speeds above 50mph.
Now mine has bags of torque and at any speed other than tickover you just can't tell it's a diesel. I haven't been in his car yet but I reckon it has some serious issues. I've sent him a link to this post so he can see your data and then maybe he'll admit that there might be something wrong with his car.
Now mine has bags of torque and at any speed other than tickover you just can't tell it's a diesel. I haven't been in his car yet but I reckon it has some serious issues. I've sent him a link to this post so he can see your data and then maybe he'll admit that there might be something wrong with his car.
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From: Torquay, England
E-class E300e Estate, Sprinter (stretched limo)
Originally Posted by marcos
I've sent him a link to this post so he can see your data and then maybe he'll admit that there might be something wrong with his car.
Glad to help, an Executive Assistant from the Global Service & Parts / Logistics Strategy and Processes department kindly obtained the information for me.
Regards,
John
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 698
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From: Oslo - Norway
The measurement of noise (bels and decibels) is logarithmic. In other words 40 decibels is not just twice as loud as 20 decibels. And, 40 decibels is actually about nine times as loud as 20 decibels. The reason for this is that loudness increases approximately three times for every bel (or 10 decibels). So 30 decibels is three times as loud as 20 decibels. 40 decibels is three times as loud as 30 decibels. This makes 40 decibels nine times as loud as 20 decibels. Loudness itself is quite subjective. What sounds twice as loud to one person may not sound twice as loud to another. To the average human ear, however, an increase of 10 decibels means that the perceivable increase in noise is triple the noise.
Thread Starter
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From: Torquay, England
E-class E300e Estate, Sprinter (stretched limo)
Originally Posted by Oslo
The measurement of noise (bels and decibels) is logarithmic.
Thanks very much Oslo.
(still no sign of the package)Regards,
John
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Posts: 119
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From: UK
As some of you might have noticed, over the last two months that I have been in possession of my new E320CDI been posting questions/statements on how noisey I believe my car is. At cruising speeds on the motorway, its very smooth. At idle, it is as most people agree, a typical diesel. My biggest grumble as been with acceleration and low speeds, town driving and the like. It really seems to me that when the accelerator is depressed, there is significant diesel tapping, not just the roar of a large engine.
I returned to my dealer last week and one of the senior technicians came out with me for a test drive. He said that the car sounds pretty much like any 320CDI he has driven and that the noise is mainly the turbo cutting in. He said I don't have anything to worry about.
Sure, as a previous poster said, we all a different perceptions of noise. Maybe, I am just too picky. I have to say, that I am thinking of getting rid of the car. Yes, some of you will think I'm nuts, but I am just not comfortable with the noise. I am not sure what I'll replace it with and I dread to think how much money I will have lost on a a two month old car.
Apologies, for my negative post.
I returned to my dealer last week and one of the senior technicians came out with me for a test drive. He said that the car sounds pretty much like any 320CDI he has driven and that the noise is mainly the turbo cutting in. He said I don't have anything to worry about.
Sure, as a previous poster said, we all a different perceptions of noise. Maybe, I am just too picky. I have to say, that I am thinking of getting rid of the car. Yes, some of you will think I'm nuts, but I am just not comfortable with the noise. I am not sure what I'll replace it with and I dread to think how much money I will have lost on a a two month old car.
Apologies, for my negative post.
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From: Torquay, England
E-class E300e Estate, Sprinter (stretched limo)
Originally Posted by Barry45RPM
I am constantly amazed at the intelligence on this board! No wonder MB has to work so hard to satisfy us!
Admit it Barry! You were referring to me with that comment? Seriously though,
Oslo is an amazing source of all sorts of technical information, and what really embarrasses me is that English is not his native tongue and he has a better grasp of it than myself!!!
Bye for now,
John
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Very intelligent people here!, Yes, you too.
In reading all this diesel info, I wonder if even a "very good" diesel powered car just "Isn'r ready for Prime Time" here in the US. We here have been prejudiced against diesels in cars for years, for their performance/noise/smell/searching for clean diesel fuel stations issues relative to what we can drive here thats gasoline powered. (Gasoline is readilly available in clean stations, feels cleaner, doesn't smell and isn't noisy) Right now, diesel fuel is considerably more expensive than a gallon of gas (even though the MPG will be better in a diesel) I wonder if the price of purchase of the diesel option, coupled with the price of the fuel, and the afforementioned "shortcomings" (percieved OR real) of diesel powered cars contributes to some level of owner dissapointment.
To me, today's diesels are much better then their soot belching '80's ancestors, but don't measure up when dropped into a luxury car. (I used to love getting in front of people riding in a convertable when driving my dad's '84 500 SD, & floor the car to see the swirling black cloud of soot envelope the car and the people behind me with their top down, waving their hands in front of their mouths! ... of course, I was young & stupid then...) I live in the US, so conditions around the world are different, necessitating diesels/smaller engines, etc. be used in those areas to be viable... I just don't understand a diesel Luxury car here (so far) in the US, except to be different...
In reading all this diesel info, I wonder if even a "very good" diesel powered car just "Isn'r ready for Prime Time" here in the US. We here have been prejudiced against diesels in cars for years, for their performance/noise/smell/searching for clean diesel fuel stations issues relative to what we can drive here thats gasoline powered. (Gasoline is readilly available in clean stations, feels cleaner, doesn't smell and isn't noisy) Right now, diesel fuel is considerably more expensive than a gallon of gas (even though the MPG will be better in a diesel) I wonder if the price of purchase of the diesel option, coupled with the price of the fuel, and the afforementioned "shortcomings" (percieved OR real) of diesel powered cars contributes to some level of owner dissapointment.
To me, today's diesels are much better then their soot belching '80's ancestors, but don't measure up when dropped into a luxury car. (I used to love getting in front of people riding in a convertable when driving my dad's '84 500 SD, & floor the car to see the swirling black cloud of soot envelope the car and the people behind me with their top down, waving their hands in front of their mouths! ... of course, I was young & stupid then...) I live in the US, so conditions around the world are different, necessitating diesels/smaller engines, etc. be used in those areas to be viable... I just don't understand a diesel Luxury car here (so far) in the US, except to be different...
Super Member
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From: Oslo - Norway
Originally Posted by glojo
(still no sign of the package)
Regards,
John
Regards,
John
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Posts: 1,439
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From: THE NAPA VALLEY, CA
Build date 2-04 E500
Originally Posted by glojo
320 CDI (S211)
Standing 49 Decibel
Passing by 72 Decibel
Inside at 50kmh 56 Decibel
Inside at 100 kmh 63 Decibel
Inside at 130 kmh 67 Decibel
E320 (W211)
Standing 43 Decibel
Passing by 69 Decibel
Inside at 50kmh 53 Decibel
Inside at 100 kmh 63 Decibel
Inside at 130 kmh 67 Decibel
Thread Starter
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From: Torquay, England
E-class E300e Estate, Sprinter (stretched limo)
Originally Posted by Oslo
I can’t understand what the delay is. One week now. I could swim over in less. Perhaps Her Majesty’s Customs and Excise is holding on to it for some unknown suspicious reasons?
Picture of sea-sick Viking sailor attached
John
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Posts: 698
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From: Oslo - Norway
Originally Posted by glojo
Picture of sea-sick Viking sailor attached
John
John
Found this news. Could it be that the high sulfur in US diesel is the reason for noisy diesel engines?
Aral introduced the new SuperDiesel in October 2002 at all stations in Germany. Minimum cetane number is 55. Engine noise drops in half (3 dB(A)) at startup and is 1 dB(A) quieter otherwise. Sulfur content is under 50 ppm - taking advantage of the new lower tax rate.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 51
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Latent mate I know where your coming from.
I was used to driving petrols for decades and only recently swapped to the W211. The engines i was driving were all VTECs which are silky smooth and very quiet and at idle you have to remind urself your not stalled by pressing throttle.
So I guess changing to the W211 was a big shock in the noise department and it is probably noiser than yours being a 220 model. What i did notice was when used BP Ultimate or injector cleaner the noise was marginally less..i would try it if it helps.
I have had the car 12 months now and like you wanted to get rid or upgrade to 320CDi within 4-6 weeks of buying it. I would really examine ALL the other qualities you like about the car and then decide. Noise is just one issue and there must be other good things you like about it.
Trading it in after 2 months will be painful and i would sell privately if you can otherwise i would opt for the E350 and get a bigger discount off your new car if you lose on yours.
If you want to change model completely then the new GS is out next year and so is the new 3 series...as well as many other new models,,,,2005 is the time to change car...not now b4 Xmas. I would at least keep it a year....unless the noise is such a factor you can't live with it.
Just make the right decision....and move to a car your happy with...make sure you test drive as many diff engines b4 commiting you hard earned.
Good luck.
Adam
I was used to driving petrols for decades and only recently swapped to the W211. The engines i was driving were all VTECs which are silky smooth and very quiet and at idle you have to remind urself your not stalled by pressing throttle.
So I guess changing to the W211 was a big shock in the noise department and it is probably noiser than yours being a 220 model. What i did notice was when used BP Ultimate or injector cleaner the noise was marginally less..i would try it if it helps.
I have had the car 12 months now and like you wanted to get rid or upgrade to 320CDi within 4-6 weeks of buying it. I would really examine ALL the other qualities you like about the car and then decide. Noise is just one issue and there must be other good things you like about it.
Trading it in after 2 months will be painful and i would sell privately if you can otherwise i would opt for the E350 and get a bigger discount off your new car if you lose on yours.
If you want to change model completely then the new GS is out next year and so is the new 3 series...as well as many other new models,,,,2005 is the time to change car...not now b4 Xmas. I would at least keep it a year....unless the noise is such a factor you can't live with it.
Just make the right decision....and move to a car your happy with...make sure you test drive as many diff engines b4 commiting you hard earned.
Good luck.
Adam
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From: Canada
2004 E500 / 2001 C240
Originally Posted by Oslo
The measurement of noise (bels and decibels) is logarithmic. In other words 40 decibels is not just twice as loud as 20 decibels. And, 40 decibels is actually about nine times as loud as 20 decibels. The reason for this is that loudness increases approximately three times for every bel (or 10 decibels). So 30 decibels is three times as loud as 20 decibels. 40 decibels is three times as loud as 30 decibels. This makes 40 decibels nine times as loud as 20 decibels. Loudness itself is quite subjective. What sounds twice as loud to one person may not sound twice as loud to another. To the average human ear, however, an increase of 10 decibels means that the perceivable increase in noise is triple the noise.
Thread Starter
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From: Torquay, England
E-class E300e Estate, Sprinter (stretched limo)
Originally Posted by atssystems.com
Also, you have to take into consideration the ambient noise.. So, in some areas the surrounding noise is so loud that the cars noise is masked.
Stationary the diesel is definitely noisier, but above that there is very little difference in noise levels and once above 50kph (I know that we are all clever enough to convert that into mph) the noise levels equal out.
Latent has his own view on the vehicles performance and they must be respected:
""Acceleration and low speeds, town driving and the like. It really seems to me that when the accelerator is depressed, there is significant diesel tapping""
Fortunately these have not been our experience, but as he quite correctly points out, ""we all 'have' a different perceptions of noise""" I for one do not think he is being to 'picky'. We are just all 'different'.
My personal view is the torque of the diesel is a definite plus for town driving and there is very little need for putting more than a little bit of pressure on the accelerator.
I might try to obtain noise levels of both the 270CDI and the 500, I would be interested to hear what the 400CDI is like, but it will not be gracing our shores anytime soon so there is little point.
Regards to you all this halloween evening,
John
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Texas
05 E320 CDI
Originally Posted by Oslo
Could it be that the high sulfur in US diesel is the reason for noisy diesel engines?
Aral introduced the new SuperDiesel in October 2002 at all stations in Germany. Minimum cetane number is 55. Engine noise drops in half (3 dB(A)) at startup and is 1 dB(A) quieter otherwise. Sulfur content is under 50 ppm - taking advantage of the new lower tax rate.
Aral introduced the new SuperDiesel in October 2002 at all stations in Germany. Minimum cetane number is 55. Engine noise drops in half (3 dB(A)) at startup and is 1 dB(A) quieter otherwise. Sulfur content is under 50 ppm - taking advantage of the new lower tax rate.
High cetane fuel has a shorter delay after injection before it ignites, and produces a flatter and broader power pulse as it burns, compared to lower cetane fuel which produces a narrower and "peaky" pulse. This reduction in the peak pressure during the power stroke is what I think reduces the "knocking" noise the engine produces.
Additives which improve the cetane of diesel are readily available and subjectively I think they do make the engine run slightly quieter. Typically diesel fuel in the US has a cetane rating of around 40. Diesel sold in eastern Texas starting April 2005 (TxLED - Texas Low Emission Diesel) is mandated to have a minimum cetane of 48. I'll report then whether the TxLED "sounds" better.
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From: Torquay, England
E-class E300e Estate, Sprinter (stretched limo)
Originally Posted by rbordel
Additives which improve the cetane of diesel are readily available and subjectively I think they do make the engine run slightly quieter.
(new word my American friends have taught me, I hope it is suitablePlease be aware though that......
*****The use of fuel additives limits warranty claims.******
Direct quote from manual. (might be worth putting into new FAQ's)
Regards,
John
A cold morning in Torquay
