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I've got the check engine light on. The codes are P2004 (state current): Diagnosis of tumble flap manifold: Short circuit to ground of sensor lines / Tumble flap shafts stick in the actuated position; and P2006 (stored): Intake manifold runner control stuck closed bank 1. I also have P0036 (stored): H02S Heater control circuit bank 1 sensor 2. There are also similar pending and historic codes.
I cleared all codes and for the last 2 days there is no check engine light.
As I understand, P0036 could be due to failing downstream oxygen sensor. I am not too worried about it, since I replaced 2 sensors already, and might need to replace the other 2 soon.
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I am worried about the manifold codes. I looked at the video showing manifold replacement on the same E350 W211. Getting it out is difficult. It seems that several things could fail: solenoid, pivot arm, plastic flap, vacuum leak, etc. There is also an aftermarket kit designed to repair the most common failure, replacing the plastic piece with aluminum.
Is there a way to diagnose the problem further without getting the manifold out? Would successful clearing of codes, at least temporarily, suggest a specific problem with the manifold? Clearing of the codes also cleared P0036, at least for now, which is strange if the heating circuit in the oxygen sensor has failed.
Take a light and shine at the front of the manifold. You should be able to see the levers for the flaps on each bank. If you can put your hands through the tight space and attempt to move the flaps you will know. If there is no resistance whatsoever, the plastic lever (mechanical fuse) that controls both banks is broken. If so, replace the manifold altogether.
If the manifold plastic lever controlling both banks is intact (sure old and brittle), the code can be a loose wire, or damaged sensor.
I would wait to see if the heater control error comes back. Could just be one of those one time things, maybe low battery power one day and not enough power for it or you have some intermittent wiring fault. But it's just a downstream sensor, should last the life of the car. I replaced the two upstream ones a while ago but still have the original two downstream sensors. I would just replace the one bad one instead of doing both. Maybe the wiring is just loose or you have a bad connection.
As for the intake, it's probably just a matter of time. The key is to see how easily the flaps move with the lever. If it's really stiff, it means the flaps are gummed up from oil coming from the oil separator/breather cover which goes bad over time. I'd replace those too when you replace the intake manifold. There are many videos on replacing the manifold, it's not really difficult, just long and involved. Basically need O rings for the fuel injectors and new gaskets for the intake. The gaskets tend to slide off if you don't have it attached right. I've replaced the manifold on my W212 but not the W211. Had pending codes but not actual codes. Eventually you get actual codes instead of pending codes. The flaps get harder and hard to move so eventually they'll break off and fall into the engine causing engine damage which is why just replacing the lever or rods that break is only a short term fix. Real fix is to replace the intake. FCPEuro sells the Pierburg manifold which was OEM. On my old intake, the lever was really hard to move and once I moved it, it didn't bounce back.
I would wait to see if the heater control error comes back. Could just be one of those one time things, maybe low battery power one day and not enough power for it or you have some intermittent wiring fault. But it's just a downstream sensor, should last the life of the car. I replaced the two upstream ones a while ago but still have the original two downstream sensors. I would just replace the one bad one instead of doing both. Maybe the wiring is just loose or you have a bad connection.
As for the intake, it's probably just a matter of time. The key is to see how easily the flaps move with the lever. If it's really stiff, it means the flaps are gummed up from oil coming from the oil separator/breather cover which goes bad over time. I'd replace those too when you replace the intake manifold. There are many videos on replacing the manifold, it's not really difficult, just long and involved. Basically need O rings for the fuel injectors and new gaskets for the intake. The gaskets tend to slide off if you don't have it attached right. I've replaced the manifold on my W212 but not the W211. Had pending codes but not actual codes. Eventually you get actual codes instead of pending codes. The flaps get harder and hard to move so eventually they'll break off and fall into the engine causing engine damage which is why just replacing the lever or rods that break is only a short term fix. Real fix is to replace the intake. FCPEuro sells the Pierburg manifold which was OEM. On my old intake, the lever was really hard to move and once I moved it, it didn't bounce back.
Thanks! Did you buy the manifold from an online OEM dealer or FCPEuro? It looks like OEM dealer is slightly cheaper than FCPEuro. Do they come with all gaskets or do I need to buy gaskets separately? Is it 3 gaskets (2 for the engine block and 1 for the back)? Is it 6 rubber rings for the injectors? Is there an OEM gasket for the breather oil separator cover? Do I need 2 breather gaskets, one for each side? Did you do anything else in your car during this repair except the manifold, injector gaskets and breather gaskets? It looks the maintenance for our cars are similar. Do you know what will fail next?
As for the oxygen sensors, so far I replaced 1 upstream and 1 downstream. I used OEM. They are expensive ($230-$300 each).
Got it from FCPEuro for the lifetime warranty. OEM from MB is just 2 years on all parts. You need to buy the intake manifold gaskets separately, there's just two of them, one for each bank. The one in the back is different, you can just reuse it. You need 6 O-rings for the fuel injectors. The oil separator and breather cover are two separate things. The oil separator is reverse threaded so you turn it in the opposite direction to loosen/tighten. There's no gaskets. You could do the spark plugs while you have it all part but not that hard to do later. There's several youtube videos on how to replace it, watch a few of them. The intake manifold is the major flaw in the M272, the rest is just normal maintenance. Some stuff like the wires in the trunk going happen to lots of people and some take a while to happen like ESP errors, had two of them so far, first was a steering angle sensor the other was a brake light switch. Very common error but other causes like bad magnet ring or speed sensor hasn't happened to me yet. But it might at some point.
The codes are back. I tried to move the manifold lever by hand. It is not stiff at all. It is very easy to move with one finger. It has very little resistance. Also, it stays in the position I set it by hand. Should it have some kind of retaining spring that should close it? Online videos suggest that there is a retaining mechanism that closes it. I looked at the levers and other plastic pieces. Nothing seems cracked, loose, or broken, at least as far as I can see. Flaps are moving, I think. I see an oil stain on the lever, passenger side. Where does it come from? Does not seem to be the breather cover. The breather cover is further back.
The codes are back. I tried to move the manifold lever by hand. It is not stiff at all. It is very easy to move with one finger. It has very little resistance. Also, it stays in the position I set it by hand. Should it have some kind of retaining spring that should close it? Online videos suggest that there is a retaining mechanism that closes it. I looked at the levers and other plastic pieces. Nothing seems cracked, loose, or broken, at least as far as I can see. Flaps are moving, I think. I see an oil stain on the lever, passenger side. Where does it come from? Does not seem to be the breather cover. The breather cover is further back.
There's lots of places where you can get oil leaks, maybe one of the camshaft/crankshaft position sensors. If the lever stays in the same position then there's something wrong, should bounce back. There's an oil separator behind the breather cover and that gets worn away. You'd only see it once you take it out.
My center link to the vacuum diaphragm is broken. The most common failure. Time for the new manifold. Do you know the part numbers for the oil separator and breather cover you replaced? Is there a gasket for the breather cover? Are those parts 260 and 270 on this diagram? I am getting an error saying these parts do not fit the car, but repair kits are available. Can't find any pictures for the repair kits. Thanks.
Last edited by ilya980; 10-26-2023 at 05:56 PM.
Reason: more info
There's lots of places where you can get oil leaks, maybe one of the camshaft/crankshaft position sensors. If the lever stays in the same position then there's something wrong, should bounce back. There's an oil separator behind the breather cover and that gets worn away. You'd only see it once you take it out.
Is this the correct picture? Is this the oil separator you are talking about?
Or is it a centrifuge in the back on the picture below? Or both? Thanks.
Is this the correct picture? Is this the oil separator you are talking about?
Or is it a centrifuge in the back on the picture below? Or both? Thanks.
The one by the driver's side doesn't really go that often, it's the other one which I guess they call the centrifuge that goes all the time and is reverse threaded. That and the cover.
Replaced the manifold, but the joy was not long. Everything was fine for 2 days. Now check engine light is on again. The mixture is too lean. P0171, P0174. What is wrong? Seems like an air leak somewhere.
When I was putting everything together everything seemed to fit well. I put a new gasket between the manifold and throttle body (came with new manifold). I reused the red rubber gasket bertween the MAF and the elbow. I put a new gasket between the air filter housing and the MAF. The old one was damaged (before this repair). Everything seems snug and fit.
How can I find out what is wrong? Thanks.
Some sort of smoke test or put it under pressure. You can also let it run and systematically spray something like brake cleaner around various intake parts and see when the idles changes
I cleared the codes. Drove the car for 15 minutes. No codes came back. Then I made some measurements at idle. They seem normal to me. Do you see anything wrong with the numbers on these photos? Thanks!
I replaced 2 lambda sensors about 2 years ago. Upstream passenger side and downstream driver side. I also replaced downstream passenger side together with this manifold replacement. It was giving error codes (open heating circuit or something like that). It also gave a code for "aging". The upstream driver side is still old, possibly original (2008). The check engine did not come back so far, but it has only been a couple of days. I did nothing to the car since it was on last time, just cleared it.
Last edited by ilya980; 11-24-2023 at 10:26 PM.
Reason: error
I replaced 2 lambda sensors about 2 years ago. Upstream passenger side and downstream driver side. I also replaced downstream passenger side together with this manifold replacement. It was giving error codes (open heating circuit or something like that). It also gave a code for "aging". The upstream driver side is still old, possibly original (2008). The check engine did not come back so far, but it has only been a couple of days. I did nothing to the car since it was on last time, just cleared it.
How many miles on the car again? If it's more than 100k, I would replace the upstream sensor. They get lazy with age/mileage and even if you get no codes, you'll get slightly better gas mileage so no use waiting til it sets a code.
How many miles on the car again? If it's more than 100k, I would replace the upstream sensor. They get lazy with age/mileage and even if you get no codes, you'll get slightly better gas mileage so no use waiting til it sets a code.
The car has 102.6K miles, so just slightly over 100k.
10-08-2023, 11:02 PM
