glojo

Afternoon Marcos,
Yes the weather is really damp, more of a heavy wet mist than rain.

It looks like my next question has to be addressed to a European member with an estate as it does not appear to be a newer option.

OSLO!!!!!..........
Has your estate got pnuematic locking? (in all fairness I would have no idea unless I had seen the technician 'play' with the tubing.

Thanks for the update,
John

A very damp afternoon in Torquay

Barry45RPM

Perhaps since in the US, rear seat passengers must pull up the door locks to open the door, unless they wer unlocked by a person in the front exiting the vehicle or operating the unlock dash switch, we get the Y shapes lock posts. If the flush ones were used here & the front seat people didn't unlock the doors electrically, the rear seat people could not exit. ...or if the electric locks did not operate if the car was under water, the rear passengers would be trapped.

I guess MBUSA has given this market "child proof" rear locks, by default, not user programmable mechanically by the owner, therefore the American style lock posts... another example of an unnecessary cost increasing variation that MB should eliminate, rather than deleting good content to save money.

Kurko

Hi. I'm waiting my e350 4matic and started to wonder how cold it was when this happened?
Just curious as I live in Finland that really meets the spec:"REAL COLD"! I came back from our winter cottage 2 days ago and it was -17F

SAguirre

Well, it acts up in different ways. I have two garages and one is not heated. When the car is in the non-heated garage and the garage gets to about 32 F, and the car sits for a few days. It will act up one time and then the lock works fine.

When the car is outside and it gets down below 20 F then it will do it and keep on doing it until the heat in the cabin has heated the door up. You have to remember that this is not a totally bad thing (to have it only act up when it is cold). It has now given me a warning before it completely broke. The other locks and actuators are all working as they should.

I am getting the car fixed tomorrow and I am very happy about that. Right now at 12:30 pm here in Colorado it is 16 F (almost -10 C) it will get even colder tonight. It is snowing and very slick out. When I go up to the mountains it will easily get as low as -40 F in January. Seeing that otherwise all the other locks are working well, I doubt that I will have more problems. I think that it was a factory flaw from the start.

I would be willing to bet that a lot of the people in warm climates might also have problems with their locks, but don't know it since it has not gotten really cold for them.

I am sure your will be fine and that you will absolutely love the 4 Matic performance (I am also sure you will get the tight tires for it).

Steve

SAguirre

I can tell you why the MBs have side marker lights (you called them repeater lights). It is a DOT (Department of Transportation) requirement to have clear side visibility of the car. They require a side marker light that is yellow/amber at the front and red at the back. This makes some sense since it lets you see if there is a car next to you and since yellow goes in front of red you know the direction of travel. All the people here in the US who are removing the strip and the marker light are technically voiding their car’s DOT certification. I seriously doubt anything would ever happen, but they could technically get a ticket for improper lighting of their vehicle. Slim chance of this happening though.

My European 190E and a lot of the MBs of the 70s and 80s had only amber blinkers on the rear sides. For the US market, they had to put a little red lens on the side where the blinker would otherwise be. That was a really easy way to see if the car was a US or Euro spec car. The front blinkers are also the parking light and side marker lights. This meant that there was a double filament bulb in the front corner blinkers.

My 300E actually had an extra red light on the side of the taillights. When I used the side parking lights, it did not light! But when all the parking lights were switched on they would all light up. My US 300E had 4 red lights where as the European only had 2. I think that the US version was a lot safer! As you might also know, it was the DOT that required that all cars from 1986 and up had to have a third brake light. Also proven to be much safer. This was done in the US since a lot of US cars have a brake light and blinker on the same filament and could cause some confusion.

For all of you in Europe who have sedans, do you have 4 light bulbs on in the rear when you turn on your parking lights? When I have the all around parking lights the rear has 4 bulbs on, when I have just the side parking lights I only have one on. Is this how it is in Europe too or is MB saving pennies and again only has two light bulbs on in the rear?

Also, I think that it is great that the DOT allowed MB to leave the European front parking light in the high beam reflector. I think that it looks great to have that reflector on when the parking lights are on.

Steve

SAguirre

John,

Your lock plungers look like pieces of LEGOS!!!! You know, the axels for the wheels?. I noticed this because I was just playing with LEGOS today. LOL I much rather have plungers that I can use to play golf than LEGO parts!

Well, since people have offended me personally by saying that they don’t like my car’s lock plungers , I have to fight back with all I have!!

As per these US plungers being a theft problem; John!!! Locks are for honest people. Thieves will break the window anyway. Thinking that these tumblers can facilitate a brake in is like saying that locking a convertible top car will deter thieves. If you lock your convertible, you are guaranteeing a ripped canvas top.

But now to stop joking. I would like to know why the US and Europe have different plungers. Especially since Fords here in the US have plungers like the European MBs. Also, why it seems that even European W211 sedans have totally electric locks and your estate has pneumatic locks?

Steve A.

glojo

Strange how we all think our countries policy are the right ones.

Red indicators at the rear are a very BIG no, no in the UK. The very simple logic behind this is that brake lights are red and if one bulb has gone........... Is it an indicator a loose back light connection, only one back light working??

Indicators have to be orange so there is no confusion that applies to both the front and rear. If a bulb goes there is no confusion. (the indicator for that side will not work)

Parking lights.
In the UK if there is a 30mph speed limit or less and there is street lighting then motor vehicles do not need to display any lights when parked providing they are parked legally. Examples of illegal parking are facing the direction of travel, not within 15yards of a junction and not in 'controlled space' (my definition because they are countless examples)

If you park on unlit streets or highways then parking lights are required. (Or where there is a speed limit in excess of 30mph). Again there are regulations that cover this regarding wattage, white lights to the front red to the rear. In the UK it used to be lights on both the offside and nearside, but now I think (I stand to be corrected) but I think you only might need one offside light at both the front and rear. Again though they must not be to bright. It is against the law to park at night facing oncoming traffic.

Regarding your statement "yellow goes in front of red you know the direction of travel." I understand what you are saying but it still appeals to my sense of humour. No doubt US drivers are more situationally aware than that??

I will have to start imposing a law in the US whereby vehicles display an orange light on the left side and a green light on the right side so that drivers will know what way vehicles are travelling When they are not using their indicators?

Tonight the temperature will be dropping to 3 degrees centigrade, I just cannot imagine the temperatures you are experiencing.

Bye for now,
John

glojo

Go for it

Our car thiefs are obviously more considerate. They just needed a piece of tape to get round the door seal and hook it over the 'golf tee' type plunger to gain access to the interior of the vehicle. It was a very common method and I could do it on a purely scientific basis in about 12 seconds. Experienced thiefs done it in 5 or 6 seconds. It did not take long for car manufacturers to stop making these golf tees.

Hopefully this answers the above paragraph and part of the lower one.

The pneumatic question has really got my attention and I have now contacted a couple of estate car owners and am awaiting their response. Unfortunately unless you take the panels off the car it is not going to be easy to answer. The wife removed the rear panel to photograph the piping but there is a further insulation cover retained with security screws which she could not take off. Obviously the technician had all the equipment and must have taken it off without a second thought.

I suppose there must be tubing going into each individual door, but I do not want to ask anyone to pull out rubber grommets to see if there are wires or pipes.

Bye again from the land of leggo

John FORE!!!! or should it be FOUR!!!!

Kurko

Thanks for quick reply. None of my friends have seen this happening, so I think this was just a unique case. I just got so scared after reading this

Jep, I'm really looking forward to have this car, as it has been bought without a chance for a test drive I drove E240 4Matic and it's 4wd was amasing even the engine wasn't that powerful.
I have chosen Nokia Hakkapeliitta 4 to be my wintertires, as there is such a big difference between tyres with or without studs in rough conditions. www.nokiantires.com

marcos

I'm going to pop into the dealership tomorrow so I'll ask about the door locks just to settle it. If I remember, I haven't slept for nearly 72hrs now and my brain is just not working.

Take care
Marcos

glojo

Hi Marcos,
Thanks very much, it is also annoying me. I just hope I did not misunderstand the technician. Although 'the boss' was present when he made the statement.

Regards,
John (The baffled)

Fastbuck

Maybe it was "New Magic" locks he said!!!! :p

glojo

I knew we should not have run that bag piper over.

I told the wife, but would she listen??

Regards,
John

johna1

I don't think you should run over bagpipers, now piano accordianists are another story...

SAguirre

New update! And even another video!

I drove through some really nasty stuff but eventually made it to me dealer to drop off my car to get this demonized lock actuator replaced along with the VCM of my cell phone.

Since the car never acts up when you bring it to the dealer (and today was no exception). I brought my video to finally prove to the GM and my service rep that the lock did in deed act up. They always believed me, but they had never seen one act up before in spite of already having complaints about them and just fixing them. They were very happy to see the video and also confirmed that ALL Es (at least in the US) no longer have pneumatic driven lock actuators. The GM said that the system is simpler and a million times easier to troubleshoot and repair when it does brake. They thought that this system is superior! I just wish that I did not already have to have it fixed though.

So John!!! Their statement also included station wagons (ok, I will say “estates”). So my service writer gave me a couple-of-month-old E320 4-Matic “estate” as a loaner car. By the way, I forgot how much heavier the rear end is in these! The car rides much more like my old 124 (this is not a bad thing). I can also tell that my sedan (or saloon) is much quicker! Same power train in these two but definitely different gearing. I also noticed that the brake pedal had a bit more travel before it engaged. This made it much easier to release the brakes softly after coming to a full stop.

This car also has the M&S Continentals. For having these tires it handles well, but compared to my Bridgestone Blizzaks WS 50, this wagon skids a lot! I noticed that the ESP is not as effective since when the brakes are applied by the computer that wheel just locks up and the car keep on skidding. I also could break the tires loose on start up with the car in “C” mode. My car can not even brake them loose in “S” mode, the car just grips and halls as#. I really liked being able to compare the same car (for the most part) with two different sets of tires. I am very happy I bought my snow ties and wheels!

The ride to and from the dealer was in very bad road conditions and extremely cold temperatures. The wagon was totally clean when I picked it up and the pictures will show you what it looked like after 20 miles.

Here is the link to the video:

http://steveag.home.comcast.net/wagonlocks.avi

The locks again sound really loud in the video, so ignore the volume, but you can see that these are also totally electric. John, are your locks this fast? I know they must be quieter.

After tomorrow, there will be no little nagging things going on with my car!!!


Steve A.

glojo

Hi Steve,
Thanks for the update, Obviously I am not doubting either yourself or the dealer, I really had to have a chuckle though over your comment, ***** The GM said that the system is simpler and a million times easier to troubleshoot and repair when it does brake***** Thank goodness your system is not pnuematic!!!

I am somehow going to remove the rear nearside panel and take a picture of my 'phantom' pnuematic piping and let people try to figure out what it is.

Plus I will have to bend my dealers ear because I cannot stand mysteries and this is indeed a mystery. I have asked a number of UK based owners and none can tell, but they thought they were electric. One is going to have a go at getting a definite answer, but either way, I will definitely post the outcome. I have always supplied this information in good faith and now I am getting my doubts!!

My locks travel at the same speed as your golf tee's in the second video, but my leggo stub axles 'glide' up and down, (or more like they do not stop dead at the end of their travel).

I just nipped onto the UK Mercedes-Benz site to look at the figures for the Estate vs the saloon. Unfortunately they do not publish the 320 petrol figures anymore, but I went with the new 350. The 4Matic is not available so these figures are for the basic vehicle.

The estate figures are in brackets:

Fuel Consumption Mpg Mpg
City 20.2 (20.0)
Extra Urban 39.2 (37.7)
Combined 29.1 (28.5)

Acceleration 0 - 62.5mph 6.9sec (7.1)
Top Speed 155mph (155)

Weight 1579kg (1810kg)

Mind you that is without ALL that snow and yukky stuff. I would have kittens, NO double kittens, if our vehicle got that dirty. I thought snow was white!!! That is the dirtiest car I have ever seen. Does the salt (if that is what it is) cause any corrosion problems?

Good luck with the car,

Regards,
John

A very mild overcast afternoon in Torquay

marcos

I went to the dealers today to sort out my air-matic and asked about the locks, the answer I got is as follows.

The locks on the W211 and S211 are electrical and definately not pnuematic, the system was changed on some of the very last W210's as a trial and all the newer models have electrical locking systems, more reliability apparently.

He also stated that the air hose on your car John could be from a number of things, self levelling and something else that I've forgotton now

Bottom line is that both myself and Steve have been given the same info so it must be right.

Regards

Marcos

glojo

I bit the bullet, gotthe crutches, got the wheelchair, got the security driver, got the camera and got the 'Boss' to help me. Boy will I be in trouble.

If we have a regiment of Scots Pipers playing "Scotland the Brae" through my pnuematic pipes then my life will END. 'The Boss' says that I am mad to undo the screws, but enough was enough!! Here in full technicolour are the pipes.

If possible Steve could you check on your estate (if you still have it) it check to see if this air system is fitted? If it is then I would suggest it operates the tailgate? If it is not there, then I would go with my technicians statement. Thinking about this as I type, what opens the boot on the saloon variant?

This still might be the cause of the noise if the pipes open the boot?

As can be seen by my post, I am not interested in who is right or who is wrong. I just want to solve the mystery of the air pipes.


The top picture shows the nearside panel that conceals the pipes and the lower picture shows my pnuematics!
Take care,
John

SAguirre

That sure looks like a pneumatic central lock air pump to me!! I still have the wagon but I have to return it today. I will however take that panel off and take pictures. I am curious about what I will find!

I am sorry that you are so incapacitated, hopefully just temporarily. I guess this must have really gotten under your skin to go thru all that trouble to take these pictures! Because of all your efforts, I will make sure I take pictures right after work today!

As per the British humor, that is all it is. I am joking (for the most part). I must say though, our old schooner had a 40 HP Perkins diesel that was bulletproof!! It was made in England. I thought I should say something positive too. But you know, they say that computers are not made in England because the British can’t figure out how to make them leak oil. But I have to say our sailboat’s diesel never leaked , but our Jaguars were terrible.

Steve

glojo

Ouch Ouch It only hurts when I laugh OUCH

Being an ex very keen motor cyclist I can fully understand the 'oil' joke. British bikes always believed in nsharing their oil. I must confess to having worked on many a P4 and P6 Perkins, but my engines never leaked.

Don't forget new Jaguars are now owned by Fords so hopefully they 'should' get more reliable. (I am no fan of Jaguars) apart from the old 'leaky' XK's and early 'E' types. Sadly they were renowned for perhaps the odd drip or three of oil.

I am pleased that you have managed to see the pictures. I only took out two security screws and just gently pulled back the insulation.

Good luck,
John

Nearly forgot, don't forget my nearside is your offside The large metal box in the lower right corner is the DVD COMAND navigation housing.

marcos

I feel another trip to the dealers coming, I will take the pictures of your car with me John and see if this can't be solved

glojo

Thanks Marcos,
They are only small copies of what I took. I think there is a part number on the foam insulation. Not so sure now though it reads A211800.

The pipes you can see are the ones that kinked and the noise was quite loud. I am only saying it is the central locking because that is what the technician told me. It could control something completely different.

I posted the pictures because of the very legitimate doubts that were being raised.

Good luck with your enquiry, my vehicle is booked in on the 12th so I was going to raise the issue to try and sort out an answer.

Thanks again,
John

Fastbuck

Good work Sherlock.


Maybe the tank is the hot air for the DVD Nav woman. ie Turn right here, get ready to turn right in 7 miles, I told you to turn right 5 minutes ago you creton, ohh yes I did! etc!

SAguirre

I took everything apart and this is what I see: it looks nothing like your car. I would be willing to bet it has something to do with your movable floor. This wagon has the 3rd row seats and an automatic tailgate opener/closer. The picture is of the US driver's side panel and the Navigation unit. The floor of the wagon has the seat and the spare tire, so there is no air pump in this wagon (estate).

So now I have some to this conclusion: John both you and your car are SPECIAL! Well, I would seriously wonder if that technician who told you it was the locks knows what they are talking about, or decided to just tell you something so you would accept it and leave him alone.

Steve A.

glojo

Hi Steve,
Thanks very much for your efforts. At present I certainly have no reason to doubt what you are saying.

In my heart I hope you are wrong because I do NOT like being 'fobbed off', but it would certainly be nieve to discount what you have said.

If it was the movable floor would the pump be operating when the floor was not being used? I ask this because of the noise the kinked pipe used to make. This noise would be made with the engine off and the tailgate shut?

I am still thinking whilst typing and another strange thing comes to mind. As soon as the technician heard the noise he immediately knew what it was? How did he know? Why did he know where the pump was? My vehicle is the only one supplied by our dealer with a moving floor? The technician would have had absolutely no knowledge of this option whatsoever? One minute your suggestion sounds perfect, and the next minute it has just a few flaws?

It would be easiest to trace the piping but unfortunately that is not an option. Your movable floor suggestion is certainly plausible and I am definitely NOT dismissing it.

Thanks again for your excellent co-operation, and suggestion.

John