Vivek

Does it make sense to take advantage of the discounts on remaining E320 4Matic or wait for E350, actually to wait for a year or so, so that initial problems if they arise with the new engine are resolved, may be 2007 model year? I went to the dealer today and found a car that meets my requirements except it does not have the HK Sound

I am in Toronto and the discount on E320 is not much, about US$4000 off the MSRP. The new E350 will probably be about US$2000 more then the current E320. There isn't not much discount on new cars otherwise so the new E350 will probably be at the MSRP or with very little discount. Is it worth saving US$6000 and buy the car that has been in the market for a long time and tested or wait for a nicer enginer?

BTW, the power of E320 is good enough for me, ofcourse I don't mind having higher performance of E350. And as I want the 4Matic, it will still come with 5-speed.

Fastbuck

The 350 engine is tried and tested in other models. I don't think you'll be taking a huge risk if you choose to go down that route.

nasdaqsam

We faced the same decison. Because my wife does not need the extra power and discounts were so good we decided the 320 was the ticket for us, YMMV.

Also, shop a little more you can get a few more thousand off the 320. It is quite common to get about $ 6,500 to $7,000 off and that is not including the $ 2,000 extra for the 350. It was a no brainer for us. I ended up with more than that off but I really like to play the game. It's the art of the deal. I actually think I like making the deal more than any other part of the process. I'm sick.

Le Burpor

My only concern is the depreciation of the market value of the E320 once the E350 is out. Some say the effect will be minute but I don't know.

Aside from that, the E320 is a gorgeous car and as you've said, the power is sufficient. So...... go get it

I've resigned to the fact that I cannot chase the latest tech as I don't have deep pockets. Who knows, when the E350 comes out a face-lifted E-class will be scheduled the following year. So, whatcha gonna do? Never buy the car??

Somethings you need to enjoy now. It's not an investment consideration after all, is it?

Vivek

Le Burpor, you have made a valid point. You can never keep up with the technology. And the car manufacturers will keep updating something or the other every year so that buyers are tempted to buy newer vehicle. This year MB is releasing the E350 and I think for 2007 facelit is scheduled to be released. May be later this decade the new E class will be released. You can never keep upto it. Moreover, the only change in E3204M and E3504M is the engine. Everything else remains the same. The fact that E350 is a 2006 year model, that itself will cause a depreciation. Is tha

I am not a good negotiator and do not know the tactics to get a good deal. Also, I think you get better deals in the US. I will however try to see what I can do. The only thing I am upset about is that I am not getting the HK sound system. I like to enjoy music while I am driving.

Le Burpor

I do not have the HK system and I can assure you that the standard sound system is good as well. I listen to a wide variety of music (ie. R&B, Classical Opera, Pop etc etc) and the quality has been acceptable for a car sound system. BTW, is the HK system better than the BOSE option?

If you want good sound, then save it for when you get home where there are no road noise and you can position yourself in the right sweet spot. I spent $16k for my front speakers & $12k for my amps in my 'music room'. That's where I go whenever I want to listen to 'good quality' music But to spend an extra $1k+ for the HK system...well, no thanks

BudC

IMHO, the best thing about the E350 is the 7G transmission. I don't like the 5G transmission on my E320. It's fine on the open highway but not in urban environments. The 7G offers more gear ratios so that you are more likely to get one that's appropriate. The 4 speed transmission on my 300E is actually much better in urban driving situations than the 5G on my E320.

If you aren't going to save much money on the E320, get the E350. The depreciation on the E320 will be severe and the only way it won't mean much is if you keep a car for a long time.

There is one more advantage to the E350. The E320 has a coarse V6 sound that is too much like something you'd get from General Motors. Mercedes have worked hard to improve the sound of the V6 in the E350.

The V6 in the E350 really hasn't been proven yet but otherwise the E350 should be OK.

plocjim

I was actually thinking about this on the way into the office this morning..should I buy a new E350 now or wait. I made a decision to wait (99% sure)...I love my car, there's nothing wrong with it at all...the only reason I was thinking of changing was for the extra HP, the 7G tran and because I wanted something new! I'll see how the E350 does in its first year (although I'm not too worried about "first year" glitches) and what the future face lifts bring...then decide. Meanwhile, to quell the urge for something new...I'll gut the kitchen and put in a new one! And, to top it off, I'll spring for the wood/leather steering wheel - that will trick me into thinking I have a new car...for a while at least!

Not bad for a Sunday morning drive to the office!

Nevada Jack

Very close to my thoughts...I cancelled my negotiation for a 350 wagon just last week. I wanted the wagon badly but the 2003 E 320 is a great car ( I have the wood wheel already) and I enjoy driving it. I am interested in the R Class (GST) due out in the Fall and maybe at that time I will decide to change rides. If the R has the 350 available it should be a nice package (if you like the mini van crossover look.) I have some shots of the R at my *** site below.

plocjim

The R is actually a great looking vehicle...the pics are awesome!

Barry45RPM

I believe (my ears say) that the HK sound system is not the best sound system available in a luxury car from any manufacturer, but it is head and shoulders above any Bose system offered in any Mercedes. Sound systems are such a very important way the average consumer rates the overall quality of a car that it is beyond me why more effort isnt made to have a really good sound system standard, with a great sound system as an option. It is not all about the number of speakers or amplifiers included, but rather the design and manufacturing quality put into the number of speakers/amps the manufacturer chooses to put in. Weak amplifiers, lightweight speakers, and small thin speaker wiring are inexcuseable in an expensive car. The base sound system should sound really good to the majority of the car buying public, and it hasn't in a Benz... it OK, but...

There shouldn't be any buts... its such an easy thing to get right from the start. In this day and age its no engineering marvel to have a fabulous stereo system in a car. Its a matter of saying "This is not good enough" versus, "This is good enough for them, its a car, not a living room."

cdiken

If its transportation to you, get the E320 and spare the cash.

If you hold out you may get a deeper discount, but I think the time is now while selection is still good and you are only "settling" for no HK in addition to the 320 engine. You may never find a new 4matic E for less than right now.

If its more than just transportation and getting exactly what you want has holistic value, put $65,000 into a good investment for a year, you'll more than get your $6K, and buy after the "new model hype" cools.

I wanted a CDI ever since I heard they existed in other markets years ago. But after they hit the shores here, I forced myself to wait and got a discount -$500 off MSRP, nothing monumental, but better than the $2K-$3K over MSRP a few copies sold for.

BTW I don't think engine reliability is an issue. The motor has been out for a while, and its not a "breakthrough technology" type engine, output of the 350 engine is modest so its not tearing itself apart when you goose it.

KB

NWmb

Oh master Nasdaqsam,

Could you share some of your insights that are particularly effective with the MB dealers?

Thanks in advance, NWmb

BudC

A 2005 E320 with Leather, metallic paint, Entertainment and Sunroof packages has an Invoice of $50,196. Mercedes currently have a cash back plan to the dealer on this car of $1,500 plus another $1,000 if you finance it through MBUSA.

Start with the $1,500 cash back. This results in an Invoice of $49,696. This should be the maximum you should pay for the car. When I got mine, I got $2K off invoice at the end of the model year.

If you finance the car through Mercedes you'll get another $1K off. You have to wait 3 months before you can pay off the loan but even if you are going to pay cash you can finance it, take the extra discount and then pay it off after three months.

Ask the dealer to e-mail you a copy of the Invoice for a car you are interested in and you can start from there.

If you live in the SE of the US then there will be an extra $600 that is added to the Invoice as an advertising charge. The copy of the Invoice should show if there are any additions to the Invoice.

Forget about MSRP and think Invoice. Not only is the E320 at the end of a model year but it's being replaced. You should be looking at less than Invoice price for a 2005 E320.

Go to www.edmunds.com. All this Info is there.

RJC

I'd rather have an '06 base 350 than a '05 320 with extras...

Barry45RPM

Go with a credit app completed & a check. offer $ 1000 over invoice. He'll come back with a good counter-offer.

nasdaqsam

To get the best deal I find it quite helpful to know what the invoice (not MSRP) is and keep in mind invoice is not what the car cost them. There are dealer reserves, hold backs, advertising incentives, volume discounts and volume rebates.

Anyway the invoice is easy enough to find by checking the web on sites like. fleetrate.com, now you know the MSRP and then they now can get you another chunk off that invoice price by buying at fleet rates. Usually around $2,500 to $3,000 more off.

The one I priced was $ 57030. w/metalic paint, premium package and heated front seats. The invoice was around $ 53,088. from there you can take the fleetrate off so around $ 49,500. With that info I start to search for other web sites that work in a similar way and work it back and forth to get the best price.

Since this is a lease I start to work on that next. Usually if you get a good deal at one place they will stick you on the lease. So I find my own and save even more. Leasecompare is good for this. I can not use them because they do not lease in NY but....there are ways around that also .

This works well in the states but not sure about elsewhere but knowing beofre you go is always best. And keep in mind even at the better price on the car and the lease they are all still making money.

If this will not work where you are then at least you can go in armed with close to what the car costs and tell them what you are willing to pay. I have always done best just calling the sales manager direct and telling him I do not have time to play games, I know what I want, I know what I can get it for elsewhere and what I am willing to pay. Some will tell you to go fly a kite others will ****er a little. It depends on demand in your area. Try to find an area that is large with a lot of compitition. I have also been known to mention the Lexus a few times during the conversation.

Good Luck

Vivek

I am not sure about in USA and remainder of Canada, but in Toronto area all the dealerships are owned by Mercedes Benz itself and are not privately owned. The salesperson is an employee of MB Canada. There are a couple of dealerships outside Toronto that are privately owned. I am not sure what discounts MB employee can give. They don't seem to have power to give better discounts but only the ones released by MB Canada itself. If anyone has any information, it will help. Thanks.

steph280

When we got ours, we were first attracted to the dealer by a rediculously low lease rate of $339/month. Of course when we got to the dealer they had none of those base models left. But salesperson showed us carsdirect.com price and say that's the price they can offer to us. The price grabbed my attention since it was below invoice, plus there were the $1500 rebate and $1000 finance kickback. So there was not much negotiation needed. You might want to check that web site and see who's the affliate dealer in your area who can offer that price.

For us the choice of large discount over new model was a no brainer. We plan to drive it for a long time so depreciation is not an issue. I work in the IT field and if I had to wait for new technology before making a purchase, I'd probably still be using an IBM XT right now. My philosphy has been if I need it, buy it now and enjoy it now. Life is short and one can only wait so long.

We got the HK system in ours and frankly it's just another brand name hype, just like the old Bose. For the same money MB charged for this upgrade, I could have installed an aftermarket system sounding much better.

krispykrme

You will be dissappointed with the 7G transmission. It's not as smooth nor compatible with the engine as compare to the 5 speed.

My E500's transmission often would shift very harsh. It seems that it just does not work well with the throttle.

Compare to the 5 speed on my wife's CLK320 and my E55, the 7G tranmission is horrible. Plus every time i shift out of park at incline, there is that clunck sound.

SAguirre

Wow! I had no idea that the 7G was bad in that ways you described. If you want an E350 or E500 with the 5 speed, you could still order the car in 4 Matic, those models only come with the 5G.

I personally love the 5G tranny on the E. I have been driving a loaner ML for the past 8 days and in spite of the ML's great 5 G the Es is much more refined. The Es does not hunt and can tell if you are still driving uphill so as to not up shift.

However, I find it hard to believe that the 7G is that bad. Maybe yours has a problem???

Steve

BudC

I guess I'm an oddball but I don't like the 5G transmission. It's fine on the open road but when driving around the neighborhood, it always shifts down two gears to go around a corner (5th to 3rd) and so you wind up with 4th being too high (numerically) and 3rd too low. The old four speed worked better because it would shift down to 3rd which is right between 3rd and 4th on the 5G.

I guess I'm more interested in the E350 because of the 7G transmission than I am for the CGI V6.

This is a bit off topic Steve, but did you get your SBC brake problems resolved. As I told you, bleeding the brakes on my '04 E320 made an amazing difference. They are now perfect.

krispykrme

No, actually this was pretty much normal for the early 7G transmission. If you do a search on the 7G transmission in this forum, you will find that I am not the only one complaining rough shift and some hesitation on the 7G transmission. I haven't drove the newer models, but my E500 was the among the 1st cars to get 7G transmission.