El Cid

He did much more than just give his driving impressions.
Also, if he is going to repeatedly solicit people to join his survey site, they should be aware of what he has already concluded about the vehicles.

mkaresh

I have no personal interest in how any car rates in the reliability survey. My sole interest is in accurately reporting how reliable a car is, whatever that happens to be.

Also, in my view there are no perfect cars. They all have strengths, and they all have weaknesses. I'm not the sort of person who sees things as either all good or all bad.

I am well aware that some people do see everything in black and white, and don't grasp that there's any other way to see things.

220S

People will always be critical of any car you or I might own, so don't take it personally. He wasn't criticizing MB owners, just the car.

Michael Karesh contributes to TTAC, and as a contributing writer it's his right to let the chips fall where they may according to him. TTAC doesn't fear the pull of advertiser's dollars and says whatever they feel like about the industry.

However, True Delta (not TTAC) is simply a collection of user information designed to help get a feeling for the reliability of specific autos. Nothing more and nothing less. He solicits data everywhere, not just on MBWorld. What the owner of True Delta feels about your car or mine, has absolutely no bearing on the data.

K-A

Are you serious?

Like it or not, you're car isn't perfect, and lots of people won't like it. A good Reviewer will state their opinions, and even better ones won't do it with soft-ball comments.

It's not like he has a personal vendetta against the car, or that any of you/us have a vested interest in the success of the 212. If it isn't up to par for him, then so be it. I don't like the 212 all so greatly either, but I'm not going to lie to people if they ask me what I've heard about its Reliability.

I think you shouldn't be so uptight as to trying to "warn" people against contributing to something that will ultimately only help THEM and YOU, the cars consumers and owners.

El Cid

Mr. Karesh.
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but did your review state that you would not recommend the 2010 W212 because of hard seats and light steering?
Also, on your TrueDelta website, didn't you have an "opinion" as to why the Hyundai Genesis had low reliability reports.
If so, this is more than just commenting or reviewing on a vehicle's pros and cons or reporting reliability information as received.

mkaresh

I'd answer you here, but as others and myself have repeatedly noted this is simply not relevant to the topic of this thread. The driving experience and reliability are two entirely different things.

There's already another thread on this forum on my review. If you want to discuss the review, that's the place to discuss it.

I often note in a comment when a relatively complicated luxury model is all-new. I made the same comment for the Genesis that I made for the C-Class. It's not my opinion that both cars were all-new, this is a matter of fact. It's also not simply my opinion that both, by having average scores, did better than others such as the Cadillac CTS and Jaguar XF in their first years.

As much as you're trying to make the case that I am, I play no favorites with the reliability stats.

K-A

Conspiracy theorists.

mkaresh

Conspiracy theories tend to be more entertaining than the truth.

We should have at least a partial result for the W212 in May, and could even have a full result if enough owners participate.

Not yet signed up? Help us provide the first reliability stats for the W212:

Car reliability research

jumper4000

I added my car, but for some reason it says, 2010.5 E-Class. My car is a regular 2010 E-Class. How can I change that?

mkaresh

Thanks for the heads-up, fixed. I check for these twice a month.

mkaresh

It's looking like we will have an initial result in May. But more participants remain needed for a full result.

Not yet signed up? Details here:

Car reliability research

mkaresh

Need just 10 to 15 more owners for a full result.

Looking forward to having at least a partial result in May.

mkaresh

We'll have a partial result for the new E-Class next month, with a preview for participants next week.

It looks like we'll fall a few responses short of a full result this time around, but if two or three more owners sign up and participate we should have one in August.

Not yet signed up? Details here:

Car reliability research

mkaresh

Make that a full result next month--ended up with excellent participation by W212 owners, and so more responses than initially expected.

Thanks, guys.

We are going to be right at the minimum for a full result, so additional participants would still be very good to have.

Car reliability research

mkaresh

That stat next week, with another update in August. The more owners participate, the more precise these stats will be.

petee1997

I take these outside surveys with a grain of salt. Owners who are satisfied expect as much from a new car in its first year and are less inclined to answer an outside survey. On the other hand, a dissatisfied owner wants everyone to know and is more motivated to answer. Factory surveys would be the exception because owners have a vested interest in the results.

mkaresh

The survey process is designed to avoid this potential issue. If you look at the actual results, you'll find that the reported repair frequencies are if anything lower than you might expect. With some new models hardly any owners have reported a repair.

El Cid

Before I sign up, how about telling us here about your results so far?
Last time I went to your site, you had to join in order to view reports on W212.
I am particularly interested in how many cars are in the pool, especially if you can differentiate between 350's/550's/sports/luxury/RWD/4Matic, etc.
Thanks

mkaresh

No result until later this week, and I'll be posting it to the thread next time around.

mkaresh

We have an initial reliability stat for the new W212 E-Class based on owner experiences through March 31, 2010. As far as I know this is the first such stat anywhere.

With a reported repair frequency of 56 repair trips per 100 cars per year, the new E-Class is very close to the average for all cars, which is quite good for an all-new German luxury car.

A big thank you to everyone who has been helping. We'll have further updates in August and November. With more participants, we could provide more precise information and cover all model years.

Mercedes-Benz E-Class reliability comparisons

El Cid

How many cars are in the pool now? Any breakdown as to sedans vs. coupes, 350 vs. 550, RWD vs. 4Matic?
thanks,

mkaresh

We had responses for 26 sedans, not split by powertrain. Not nearly enough data yet for that. I'd like a larger number, but with this sample size it's clear that most owners have had no repairs at all so far and that these aren't trouble-prone cars.

I've been treating the coupe as a separate model, and there aren't nearly enough owners signed up yet to include it in the survey.

El Cid

I'm confused. This quote says no repairs, but earlier one said 56 visits per 100 for repairs-or did I read that wrong? Glad to see you are treating coupe separately as there are apparently significant differences between it and sedan.

mkaresh

It says "MOST owners have had no repairs," not all of them. The 56 per 100 is an extrapolated figure.

El Cid

If I read your report correctly, you have only 26 W212 sedans in the sample with an average time in the sample of 3.3 months and 2700 miles on ODO. Is this correct?
So, actually 6 vehicles had to be taken in for non-routine repairs or is it 14 or some other number?
Also, why do you not include repairs that were not successful. It seems to me that this is a most significant finding for a car.
If I register my vehicle, the trips to the dealer and mileage up till now would not be included, correct?