gaazmon

Nice article K-A

K-A

Thanks.

I've started "collecting" different M-B Articles and pics of sorts, heh.

Unfortunately, the most recent one I read is this:
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...916_851170.htm

Looks like M-B is in some major trouble and getting lots of Government help, as well Dr. Z is rumoured to be replaced?

Apparently lots more cost cutting to come in the future they're saying, so if yalls want an M-B, grab 'em while they're still fancy!

racetested

I was looking to upgrade and the new E-Class was on my list.

Initially I did/do like the exterior but the interior left me pretty disappointed for a car that is optioned out to over $70k. I asked the salesman if the interior was MB-Tex even though I believe leather is standard as the interior seating seemed pretty stiff and plastic feeling which I wanted to get away from on my current car. I then asked if there is at least a leather upgrade but there isn't.

As someone mentioned people view luxury differently but my current 2008 C350 is loaded with just about the same technology as the new E-class but for the price difference I was hoping for more plushness inside but the materials are identical in many places.

The only main upgrades I truly see are the V-8 motor and air suspension I want but I don't see a $30+ plus trade difference being justified as the rest of the car is not much better IMO. A little nicer, yes but not for that much more money. I can see why someone would chose a W211 E-Class over the W203 C-Class but the gap in size and luxury doesn't seem as apparent on the newer models.

These are just my initial impressions. Maybe a second and third look will make me see things differently which is the case many times.

Enthusiast1

Let's not forget that when the first E-class debuted several years ago with the four elliptical head lights, that at the time this was deemed polarizing and gimmicky as well. Many hardcore traditionalists at that time shunned the design change then, as they are now. Mercedes is a great company with great traditions, including innovative and controversial designs throughout it's entire heritage, not just now. I say we cut them some slack and see what time will tell.

gaazmon

There be talks of mergers with BMW and such nowadays. These are sad times indeed.

The 550 has leather standard but haven't seen what kind of leather they have now.

Ya, there was a big difference in luxury with the W203 vs W211 (I've owned a W203). I don't see much now with the W204 vs W212 (wait till the next gen CLS comes out, what do you guys think THAT will look like on the inside).

Also, MB should have gone back to the one piece headlight design on the W212 (just as they did on the W216 CL). I think the two piece design shouldn't have carried over with the current design philosophy.

MBNUT1

All I know is that when I got in my car this morning the dash material appeared pretty durable to me. I don't expect it to start cracking like the W210's did.

MBNUT1

I guess I absolutely don't get anybody dissing the styling of the W211. I've have had more people come up to me and tell me that it was a beautiful car than anytime before. Literally from the first hour after I bought it until last weekend.

The reason that this occurs is simply because it is a beautiful car.

MBNUT1

Yeah to me the front headlights just look disjointed with respect to the inner driving lights.

gaazmon

My 94 S420 wood cracked in a few spots. Let's see what happens with this car.

+100. I always get compliments.

K-A

Yeah, this is true. The E and C are more similar than ever before. Due to M-B's new cost cutting necessity, many parts are identical, and they even share many underpinnings apparently.

Agreed! What the 211 is, is a greatly proportioned, simple, yet quality and effective design. It won't spark controversy, but it looks as classic "Mercedes" in terms of grace and elegance as it gets IMO. People compliment my car ALL the time, many would believe me if I said it was just released. It's an easy on the eyes, graceful, elegant and timeless design IMO. Not as "attacking" as the 212 is, but I grow tired of those styles myself usually.

EXACTLY. I don't get how some people don't notice this. That's what makes me feel like some people on the "new" bandwagon are there just 'cause it's "new". How can you not notice how sloppy in proportion these are?




Or look at how messy this is? All the lines not in coherence with each other. It even looks like the gas tank is out of alignment.


The 212 does have some striking and very good looking angles. But it also has some amateur and sloppy ones. The 211 or any classic "Benz" design didn't have the latter so much. I'm very picky so if my eyes pick up on areas that are noticeably imperfect, it drives me nuts.

RJC

The new E sedan also reminds me somewhat of a Cadillac CTS like in the front/side pic above...

K-A

Yeah, agreed. Funny someone else said that about that pic. Here's another angle of that same car, looks really CTS here. Whoever took these pics REALLY doesn't know how to capture the good angles of the car. The 212 is very angular, looks good from some angles, yet sacrifices others:

220S

The '01 740i is one of my favorites, too. The stance is aggressive and the split grill is the perfect proportion, imho. The later ones have gotten fat looking. But the '71 3.0 CSL is my all time favorite BMW. The Hofmeister kink fits in perfectly with the car's greenhouse design.

220S

Do you recall the period in the 1970s when exotics went to a more angular design, leaving the curves of the late 50s and 60s? It's interesting to note that they eventually went back to the curves with the latest and most current models.



1960s


1970s


2000s

gaazmon

My uncle just bought a 01 740i. He has a 97 735i as well and a prefacelift W220 S430. He really doesn't like the Benz all too much actually. He's had all the airmatic struts go out as well.

I think the 06 750i was a big improvement over the 02 - 05 745i's. The car seemed more aggressive. The new 2010 7... well, there is a reason why we don't see that many on the road, unlike W221 S classes. Also, I noticed something, you barely see any of the new Z out as well.

K-A

Yup, indeed. That's why I always like the 50's, 60's, and post 90's designs the most. 70's and 80's had a lot of angular cars, and IMO those generations look more dated than others, I just think box=dated faster. We're re-living that, cars are getting square-r, and when the W213 comes out, everyone will be tired of the box look, so they'll go back to curves.... Like BMW did.

Good thing you didn't post a pic of a pre-F.L E65. .

I like the '01 style 7'ers as well, my Step-Dad had one all through my High School years, so I spent a lot of time in it. I do like the E39 5'er MUCH more personally though.

Seems like the new 7 isn't selling to well to me too, maybe it's the Economy though, I wonder how its numbers compare to the W221. I actually really like the new 7, really clean, one of my favourite new car designs out there actually.... Although it wouldn't inspire me enough to ever wanna buy one I'd think.

K-A

Man that 3.0 CSL is shweet!!

Kar don

No ENZO in your pics? Oh that disproves your theory.

K-A

Definitely doesn't disprove the theory simply because an Enzo isn't included I don't think. The Enzo is a supercar/race car anyway, so I personally wouldn't even count it. Ferrari did start up with very curvy, round, and femininely lined cars in the 2000's, and are now sharpening the angles up with some models, in keeping with current design trends.

To note, M-B's new SLS is a HUGE step away from the newer design language on their "regular" cars, namely the very angular W212 and even E-Coupe, it's a very clean and fuss-free, smooth design.

petee1997

I, for one love this car. Funny thing, all the complaining about this car comes from non owners. This may be the nicest Benz I have owned to date, based on build and material quality,ride,comfort performance and technology.This car takes the E class to a whole new level. Body style is subjective so I won't go there.
At the risk of dating myself,my opinion is based on the fact that since 1983,between my wife and I,we have owned 5 SL,3 CLK, 3 ML, 2 S, 4 E. Most of them were nice cars. However the 03 CLK500,03 E320,04 SL500 were crap and drove us to BMW. My wife still drives her 335 coupe. This is my come back car. I traded the BMW on the W212.I could not be any happier of my decision and I'm sure my wife's next car will be the E coupe. I think this is an informed opinion as opposed to all the naysayers, non owners.


PS
My comments are not meant to be offensive to anyone, but simply informative to any prospective future owners. THIS CAR WILL NOT DISAPPOINT!!!

gaazmon

Ya, problem wise, the 03 CLK/E were crap. Even the SL ranked as one of the most unreliable MBs. The 07+ SLs are nicer exterior wise and have far less problems (still watch out for ABC, but every ABC car has those issues). Also, the 07+ E's (maybe one of the most popular E's on the road) have been great with much less problems and worries (no SBC and such except for 63). MLs have always been crap IMO, all my cousins that had them had nothing but problems. I can't say anything bad about the S classes, we've loved the 2 that we had.

I think for all of us that have owned the 03 - 04 MBs can really give our share of problems on the car. Even some of the 05s can chime in as well. With 06s you can notice an uptrend in quality, don't hear many issues with those.

Btw, the 997 is a sick car. Porsche had the right idea going back to the more 993 look vs the 996.

K-A

Indeed '03-'04 M-B's were garbage from a quality perspective.

Just to note, I've driven the new E, and I give it tons of credit, so it's not like I'm here spouting BS about the car. The areas I feel I don't think it compares to the car I personally drive, are either subjective, or I have specifically compared and described.

Congrats BTW.

220S

Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini all went into a period of sharper and more angular designs in the 1970s. It was the fashion at the time. Perhaps you're too young to know that(?)

Rather than continuing with that trend, they have return to similar designs of the 1950s and 1960s. Maranello has discussed this in some of their recent press releases.

The Enzo was Ken Okuyama's one and only Ferrari. He now operates his own design studio right here in SoCal. And in the same building that used to house the Mercedes Advanced Design Studio. Okuyama was also teaching here at Art Center for a while. (He's obviously no longer at Pininfarina.)

Anyway, here's the Okuyama designed Enzo. Not anything like the 1970s era exotics. And if you know the Enzo's history, you'll also know that it polarized a lot of the world's automotive press. It was one of the Ferraris that got lots of mixed design reviews. Very controversial to say the least.

No other current Ferrari design has followed suit. It's a one and only.

220S

fwiw, my only concern with the W212 is design. I personally think it's empty. And it's really the only reason I didn't order a new 2010 W212 E63 and instead recently bought a new 2009 W211 E63. The rest of the car, I have no issues with. I was sadly disappointed when the design was released as I was planning on getting one. I had an invite to see it when it first toured SoCal early this year and was equally disappointed seeing it in person. And not everyone at that event was pleased either; it happens to be a somewhat polarizing design. We all know that.

Yes, design is subjective. But as someone who holds the MFA degree it's also something I happen to be invested in (I work in post production for income.) My spouse was VP of Design at a major record company (she's responsible for those CD covers you either love or hate ) Our house is designed by an architect known for his design. Etc., etc.. Design is an important part of some people's lives.

Design is a discipline and can be discussed in a formal and academic manner. But what one ends up preferring for themselves is subjective like many things in life.

So, it means more to some people than others. Unfortunately for me, a particular car could be the most technologically advanced in the world and drive like no other, but if I think it's a poor design then I don't want it. The entire car must agree with me.

The W212 has some good design aspects but overall it just doesn't work for me. I personally can't live with those tail lights and rear end. I'll wait for the facelift and see what happens. And keep an eye on other options (M5, e.g.)

No doubt the W212 drives well and suits your own needs. Enjoy!

p.s., one should note that the 2009 W211 was much improved over the early ones. The 2009 also has the newer COMAND and VC. Many folks coming from early W211's haven't driven the last version. It's different than the previous ones.

capp325

Let's not forget that Pontiac Aztec was also penned by a "design professional" who likely had an MFA degree or something similar . So I wouldn't necessarily say that your occupational background gives your opinions on styling any extra weight.

I don't understand why some people feel such a strong urge to express their views on something as purely subjective as styling. You think that w212 looks cheap/disjointed/whatever? Great. I happen to think that w211 looks like a late 90's Taurus. I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. And that's just how it is.

People come here to seek advice on things like reliability, options, pricing, etc. But I can assure you that no prospective w212 buyer gives a crap what you personally think about that car's design. So what exactly are you trying to achieve with your constant bashing of the new E-Class? A cynic in me would say that you bought the outgoing model because you got a good deal on it and are now suffering from a major case of buyer's remorse, with which you deal by constantly rationalizing your purchase and trying to convince yourself that the new E is "ugly".