petee1997

I bought this car from a picture. I saw and drove the coupe before ordering but they are very different cars from the sedan. I decided that if the coupe drives that nice the sedan can only be better. I was right. I love the design because it is completely different from what I have been looking at for the last 14 years. Having said that,I think the W210 and W211 are great looking cars but it was time for a complete break from the past. We saw this in the last three genrations of the SL. Nothing in the design was carried over from one generation to the other. Some people will not buy this car for that reason. If MB did their research correctly,they will gain more new and younger buyers than they lose.
If you remember Cadillac catered to their base for years with evolutionary design and one day they woke up and the average age of their customers was in the seventies. They went from number one in luxury sales to number last. I doubt we will see MB make that mistake.

patrick_y

Having driven the E63 sedan already (W212 version), don't expect any major difference.

I think the interior could use some improvement, the door carrier feels like it's made from hard plastics.

As for the handling, I have to say the E63 is a noticeable improvement over previous E-Class AMG cars. I have driven the E350, but wasn't able to put it through its paces, since it ran out of fuel on me in the middle of the test drive. Don't go to Anaheim Mercedes-Benz; they'll give you a test-drive on a car that runs out of fuel. Management didn't seem to be apologetic enough about it. When they sent the rescue car, a mechanic just handed the salesman a can of fuel and a funnel. The salesman and I had to fuel the car ourselves.

Did I mention, it's unsafe to run out of fuel in the middle of the road when there's Los Angeles traffic all around you?

220S

I think AMG marketing has helped a lot in that area, too. The C63 is getting popular with previous M3 owners and younger buyers. I agree 100% that between the W211 and the W212, the latter should appeal much more to younger buyers. I don't think MB will lose any customers. And they also need very much to attract first time owners, too. I'm waiting to see if we get a US version of the W212 E63 wagon. If not the new F10 M5, then an E63 wagon might do nicely for me. But I need to see it in the flesh.

The economy is the only drawback for MB right now. imho, they are on a roll otherwise. Bad timing. We'll have to see what happens.

MBNUT1

I don't doubt for a second that the W212 provides a better driving experience than the equivalent W211 and will likely be a very reliable and safe vehicle. One thing I like about it is it's improved fuel mileage. 18 /26 is pretty darn good. A guy I know at work who just bought one said that he got 31+ on a recent trip and the car is still brand new.

MBNUT1

Where the disappointment stems from is as soon as a lot of us buy our car we begin the hunt for the next one. If you are a committed Mercedes buyer and don't like the next evolution of your model where does that leave you? Particularly if the you like the size of it. Your choices are a) stick with Mercedes and go bigger or smaller. b) Hang on to your current one until the next iteration c) overlook what you don't like about the new one or d) look elsewhere.

K-A

At this point it's just fun to **** off a bratty hothead like yourself. Carry on.

I agree about the door, some hard and seemingly "cheap", to me, plastics. Just doesn't look/feel too refined/fancy and is a bit austere in that area IMO.

Let me add to all this that if someone were to come to me and say "what should I buy, 211 or 212, money not an object", of course I'd tell them the 212 is the better car. I'd say if they're not against the looks, or not dead set on the 211's, then it's not really a contest.

However contrary to our new resident whino's (Capp) apparenty psychic powers, if I were in the market today, I still would buy a 211, or a 221, or Jag XF, etc. as I need my cars design to be enjoyable for me look at at all times, at all angles. If you love the 212's looks, you're gonna be a happy camper, as it will surely please in about every objective way as well.

220S

Hmmm, so you know why MB owners come here to post on MBWorld after your six illustrious posts as a newbie? Impressive.

btw, developing your skills at reading comprehension could probably help in the future. It avoids miscommunication and will make your life easier. No need for the 'nasty pill' prescription, either. Talk to your physician about alternatives.
Cheers.

capp325

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings, bud. Some people don't need 1000 posts to figure out the obvious

220S

You've now contributed a total of 7 beneficial posts to the MBWorld community. Thanks for the introduction and keep up the good work.

sacguy

Design is subjective but great design is easy to spot and this car is not great. It is not bad, it is just not "wow". The exterior is a hodge podge of styles and is in some ways overdone to me. I am sure the build quality is much improved over the W211, but that is just not filling my emotional needs! So my 2006 W211 is my 1st Mercedes and my next car will need to be something else. Such is life!

For those that really like it, Enjoy!

Stuttgart-UT

that's right, K-A is spending his life to the forum only to tell us that he don't like the car... that is crazy!

K-A we all know that you don't like the car, but do you tell us every day the same?!?
Change your life, there is more than only a MBForum....

K-A

I do what I like, and apologize to no one.

Car Forums are a waste of time period. Don't fool yourself into thinking fan-boying is a better use of time than venting about something and discussing cars you do, and don't like. In fact, I release most of my negative energy on these Car Boards with the various debates, as my real and professional life don't have any room for that.

Again, the things I say about the car are all rationale and I give it credit along with criticism. What I don't get is why the fans of the car can't combat what I say with any realistic points, rather than complaints about my expressiveness.

petee1997

If the car is technically sound and you agree, it leaves very little to argue about. Design is in the beholder's eye. There is no right or wrong. If we all liked the same thing,we would all be sleeping with the same woman.

220S

And to paraphrase an 'old Russian proverb,' some men will live with an ugly woman because she cooks well. Some men will live with a beautiful woman who can't cook

Anyway, joking aside and I'll say one last thing then I'm out of here. The W212 has had some mixed reviews in respect to the design. Both from laypersons and the automotive press. Therefore it's a controversial design choice. If you look at a few posts back on this thread, you'll see I mentioned the same thing happened when the Enzo was introduced (designed by a Japanese designer; and his first Ferrari design ever.) It happens to all manufacturers. BMW went through the same thing with Chris Bangle. And his designs are still not 100% accepted by BMW owners and prospective buyers to this day.

From Top Gear, to TTAC, to Edmunds, to MBWorld, to the AMG Private Lounge (MBUSA's AMG forum), the W212 design has been discussed. It's everywhere. Some hate it, some are okay with it. BMW had the "Bangle Butt" comments and MB now has the "Hyundai Butt" comments. http://paultan.org/2009/01/12/w212-m...eophilus-chin/

And so the dialogue will continue until the car eventually disappears into the MB mainstream and it becomes simply the E Class.

And there's no need for the asinine comments about K-A being 'jealous' because he doesn't have one. The guy is obviously compassionate about MBs and design.

I'll say it again, it's simply a juvenile retort. Case in point: in May of 2009 I had a choice between a new W211 E63 (I already owned a 2009 E350 and I have two other cars so I was in no rush) and ordering a new W212 E63 (they will be released now in 2 weeks.) I specifically chose the W211. Why? Because, as SACGUY said in his post (see above), it "filled my emotional needs." Yes, design may be somewhat subjective (although designers will argue that point.) But design is an integral part of my daily life and so it's more important to me.

And as MBNUT1 says (see his above post): "If you are a committed Mercedes buyer and don't like the next evolution of your model where does that leave you? Particularly if the you like the size of it. Your choices are a) stick with Mercedes and go bigger or smaller. b) Hang on to your current one until the next iteration c) overlook what you don't like about the new one or d) look elsewhere."

It's as simple as that.

Many of the W212 buyers are either first time buyers or come from a pre-2005 E Class. The W212 fills your practical and emotional needs. But some owners are, as MBNUT1 implies, simply disappointed.

There's nothing wrong with controversy. It stimulates the mind and promotes new ideas and progress.

p.s., if anyone is sincerely interested in the dialogue of design, I recommend Vilem Flusser's "The Shape of Things: A Philosophy of Design." There's an English translation now available. It's an amazing dialectic. He puts forth the premise that design represents both a threat and an opportunity. And that design is not simply "subjective."

gaazmon

If that is the case about all cars, then Porsche shouldn't be able to sell a 911 since the body hasn't really changed since the dawn of the car. You have to remember that when you change something drastically (like with Japanese cars), generally speaking, the value just plummets on the car.

Man, I remember when the 745i and current gen 5 series came out. The uproar was amazing. I mean people were signing petitions and sending them to BMW. So you guys complaining about the older model owners dislikes with the car should see the stuff people did when Bangle released his designs on the market. People were just flooding the internet.

petee1997

The Porsche 911 is a niche market car and not a mainstream volume car. BMW's Bangle designs put BMW on the map. Look at the increase in market share from that point on. As far as resale value, the Japanese cars have the highest residual values due to their reliability. Best you rethink your logic. I'm tired of dicussing design. I've had a W210,W211, been there,done that. I've moved on.

LETO

The 911 is a niche car it is like a black suit, just changes a bit every decade but always a staple.

It is an exception in the sense that everything below it wants to be better than it and everything above it still has to be compared to it as being better than it.

The E class is a middle of the pecking order family/executive transport (in mercedes terms). It's ultimate purpose is safety/luxury with the branding of a three pointed star. I think the new model serves that criteria well. If you want more from a benz, get an S. If you can live with less get a C. Design is subjective but mid size sedans are not exactly designed for boulevard cruising or arriving at some grand occasion. Mid size sedans are designed to be driven daily and to transport. That is why they have 4 doors, a generous boot and as a plus the E has tech, comfort and luxury.

On a separate note, I saw a 350 in the parking lot at work today. The trunk lid spoiler realy brings together the rear on this model nicely. I think this model could have used a more pronounced decklid and this finishes the car nicely

gaazmon

I've never liked the enzo design, and I love Ferrari's though. I don't even like lambo designs, I wouldn't buy any lambo.

I liked that Theophilus chin idea, looks more like C/CL tail light mixed together. The W212 tail light reminds me of the W210 E with the two pieces, one on the trunk lid and one on the side. Again, I think they should have gone with one piece head light and tail light to stay in line with the current MB designs (S, CL, C). The C, CLK, and SL before had one piece headlights but would look like two pieces from further back due to the design (kind of like a cell splitting into two, but not yet separated). I love the current C head lights, nice design, and the SL has a design similar to SLK/CLS IMO.

EDIT: Actually looking at the "chin" tail light again, it looks like an A6 tail light. What do u guys think?

gaazmon

I mostly use the form for research on sh*t that goes wrong with the car and other stuff such as mods, wheels, updates, and sometimes opinions. I find the guys that have been here longer "knock some sense" into me when I think of doing something. I have a lot of respect for the knowledge and input those guys have.

I don't really have anyone to talk to about MB related stuff cause most of my friends are all like "MB sucks. BMW and Audi rule." Anything new BMW and Audi come up with they love just cause of the name. If Lexus took sh*t and put in a box with that L logo, people would buy it.

K-A

So there's no point in discussing subjective opinions? Or no point in just "talking cars" on a Car Talk Forum? Sounds pretty damn boring to be. Maybe I'm just too passionate for my own good. I'm not telling people "you're an idiot for liking the new W212", I'm simply discussing something that I analyze extensively, and that is important to me: Design, and this is a car company that has rarely, if ever, displeased me before, so here I am talking about it. The personal comments from the 212'ers are bratty and laughable.

Unlike maybe some people, I like to debate design, even though it's subjective, it can be done on an intelligent and respectful level. For instance, the guy claiming the 212 is more "cohesive" than the 211, I'd be down to know why, and I am more than willing (and do) post why I disagree and what makes the 212 non-cohesive to me.

Very well put, and I think not much more needs to be said in explanation.

petee1997

A new car attracts new people searching for information to help them make a decision on their future purchase. This forum has been hijacked by non owners.
Anyone coming here for information will only get opinions instead of experiences from owners.

K-A

That will change once more people buy the car. Not enough owners yet to make up for the majority. I dunno if the car is selling slowly, etc. but of course the economy isn't helping anything. Soon enough the place will be flooding with owners, and "Tech Talk" about the car. Right now it's still new enough to where people will be coming saying things like "Saw the new E today for the first time", which will naturally go into an opinion based Thread.

gaazmon

Next friday I have an appointment at the dealer for some recalls on the CL500. Gonna go see if I can get a test drive of the new E. I'm sure the "drive" and "performance" of the car is way above the level of the W211 (all eyes are on the new E63 to be released). If the engine and tranny mix feels anything like the W204 C350 in regards to power and throttle response, then it's a big improvement.