Anyone else disappointed?
#76
MBWorld Fanatic!
I bought this car from a picture. I saw and drove the coupe before ordering but they are very different cars from the sedan. I decided that if the coupe drives that nice the sedan can only be better. I was right. I love the design because it is completely different from what I have been looking at for the last 14 years. Having said that,I think the W210 and W211 are great looking cars but it was time for a complete break from the past. We saw this in the last three genrations of the SL. Nothing in the design was carried over from one generation to the other. Some people will not buy this car for that reason. If MB did their research correctly,they will gain more new and younger buyers than they lose.
If you remember Cadillac catered to their base for years with evolutionary design and one day they woke up and the average age of their customers was in the seventies. They went from number one in luxury sales to number last. I doubt we will see MB make that mistake.
If you remember Cadillac catered to their base for years with evolutionary design and one day they woke up and the average age of their customers was in the seventies. They went from number one in luxury sales to number last. I doubt we will see MB make that mistake.
#77
MBWorld Fanatic!
I haven't driven the new E yet, but after waiting 5 years to replace my E500 wagon, I'm underwhelmed at what I've seen in the showroom. With all this time to update the model, the advances seems slight. The interior looks cheaper than before, the styling is OK at best, there is no new engine excitement etc etc.
I was hoping for more. I'll wait and see what the E63 Wagon is like but I've lost the desire to update.
I was hoping for more. I'll wait and see what the E63 Wagon is like but I've lost the desire to update.
I think the interior could use some improvement, the door carrier feels like it's made from hard plastics.
As for the handling, I have to say the E63 is a noticeable improvement over previous E-Class AMG cars. I have driven the E350, but wasn't able to put it through its paces, since it ran out of fuel on me in the middle of the test drive. Don't go to Anaheim Mercedes-Benz; they'll give you a test-drive on a car that runs out of fuel. Management didn't seem to be apologetic enough about it. When they sent the rescue car, a mechanic just handed the salesman a can of fuel and a funnel. The salesman and I had to fuel the car ourselves.
Did I mention, it's unsafe to run out of fuel in the middle of the road when there's Los Angeles traffic all around you?
#78
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,336
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
I bought this car from a picture. I saw and drove the coupe before ordering but they are very different cars from the sedan. I decided that if the coupe drives that nice the sedan can only be better. I was right. I love the design because it is completely different from what I have been looking at for the last 14 years. Having said that,I think the W210 and W211 are great looking cars but it was time for a complete break from the past. We saw this in the last three genrations of the SL. Nothing in the design was carried over from one generation to the other. Some people will not buy this car for that reason. If MB did their research correctly,they will gain more new and younger buyers than they lose.
If you remember Cadillac catered to their base for years with evolutionary design and one day they woke up and the average age of their customers was in the seventies. They went from number one in luxury sales to number last. I doubt we will see MB make that mistake.
If you remember Cadillac catered to their base for years with evolutionary design and one day they woke up and the average age of their customers was in the seventies. They went from number one in luxury sales to number last. I doubt we will see MB make that mistake.
The economy is the only drawback for MB right now. imho, they are on a roll otherwise. Bad timing. We'll have to see what happens.
#79
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 4,267
Received 1,000 Likes
on
732 Posts
2010 E350 4Matic
I, for one love this car. Funny thing, all the complaining about this car comes from non owners. This may be the nicest Benz I have owned to date, based on build and material quality,ride,comfort performance and technology.This car takes the E class to a whole new level. Body style is subjective so I won't go there.
At the risk of dating myself,my opinion is based on the fact that since 1983,between my wife and I,we have owned 5 SL,3 CLK, 3 ML, 2 S, 4 E. Most of them were nice cars. However the 03 CLK500,03 E320,04 SL500 were crap and drove us to BMW. My wife still drives her 335 coupe. This is my come back car. I traded the BMW on the W212.I could not be any happier of my decision and I'm sure my wife's next car will be the E coupe. I think this is an informed opinion as opposed to all the naysayers, non owners.
PS
My comments are not meant to be offensive to anyone, but simply informative to any prospective future owners. THIS CAR WILL NOT DISAPPOINT!!!
At the risk of dating myself,my opinion is based on the fact that since 1983,between my wife and I,we have owned 5 SL,3 CLK, 3 ML, 2 S, 4 E. Most of them were nice cars. However the 03 CLK500,03 E320,04 SL500 were crap and drove us to BMW. My wife still drives her 335 coupe. This is my come back car. I traded the BMW on the W212.I could not be any happier of my decision and I'm sure my wife's next car will be the E coupe. I think this is an informed opinion as opposed to all the naysayers, non owners.
PS
My comments are not meant to be offensive to anyone, but simply informative to any prospective future owners. THIS CAR WILL NOT DISAPPOINT!!!
#80
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 4,267
Received 1,000 Likes
on
732 Posts
2010 E350 4Matic
Let's not forget that Pontiac Aztec was also penned by a "design professional" who likely had an MFA degree or something similar
. So I wouldn't necessarily say that your occupational background gives your opinions on styling any extra weight.
I don't understand why some people feel such a strong urge to express their views on something as purely subjective as styling. You think that w212 looks cheap/disjointed/whatever? Great. I happen to think that w211 looks like a late 90's Taurus. I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. And that's just how it is.
People come here to seek advice on things like reliability, options, pricing, etc. But I can assure you that no prospective w212 buyer gives a crap what you personally think about that car's design. So what exactly are you trying to achieve with your constant bashing of the new E-Class? A cynic in me would say that you bought the outgoing model because you got a good deal on it and are now suffering from a major case of buyer's remorse, with which you deal by constantly rationalizing your purchase and trying to convince yourself that the new E is "ugly".
![Stick Out Tongue](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
I don't understand why some people feel such a strong urge to express their views on something as purely subjective as styling. You think that w212 looks cheap/disjointed/whatever? Great. I happen to think that w211 looks like a late 90's Taurus. I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. And that's just how it is.
People come here to seek advice on things like reliability, options, pricing, etc. But I can assure you that no prospective w212 buyer gives a crap what you personally think about that car's design. So what exactly are you trying to achieve with your constant bashing of the new E-Class? A cynic in me would say that you bought the outgoing model because you got a good deal on it and are now suffering from a major case of buyer's remorse, with which you deal by constantly rationalizing your purchase and trying to convince yourself that the new E is "ugly".
Last edited by MBNUT1; 09-23-2009 at 09:58 PM.
#81
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Let's not forget that Pontiac Aztec was also penned by a "design professional" who likely had an MFA degree or something similar
. So I wouldn't necessarily say that your occupational background gives your opinions on styling any extra weight.
I don't understand why some people feel such a strong urge to express their views on something as purely subjective as styling. You think that w212 looks cheap/disjointed/whatever? Great. I happen to think that w211 looks like a late 90's Taurus. I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. And that's just how it is.
People come here to seek advice on things like reliability, options, pricing, etc. But I can assure you that no prospective w212 buyer gives a crap what you personally think about that car's design. So what exactly are you trying to achieve with your constant bashing of the new E-Class? A cynic in me would say that you bought the outgoing model because you got a good deal on it and are now suffering from a major case of buyer's remorse, with which you deal by constantly rationalizing your purchase and trying to convince yourself that the new E is "ugly".
![Stick Out Tongue](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
I don't understand why some people feel such a strong urge to express their views on something as purely subjective as styling. You think that w212 looks cheap/disjointed/whatever? Great. I happen to think that w211 looks like a late 90's Taurus. I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. And that's just how it is.
People come here to seek advice on things like reliability, options, pricing, etc. But I can assure you that no prospective w212 buyer gives a crap what you personally think about that car's design. So what exactly are you trying to achieve with your constant bashing of the new E-Class? A cynic in me would say that you bought the outgoing model because you got a good deal on it and are now suffering from a major case of buyer's remorse, with which you deal by constantly rationalizing your purchase and trying to convince yourself that the new E is "ugly".
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Having driven the E63 sedan already (W212 version), don't expect any major difference.
I think the interior could use some improvement, the door carrier feels like it's made from hard plastics.
As for the handling, I have to say the E63 is a noticeable improvement over previous E-Class AMG cars. I have driven the E350, but wasn't able to put it through its paces, since it ran out of fuel on me in the middle of the test drive. Don't go to Anaheim Mercedes-Benz; they'll give you a test-drive on a car that runs out of fuel. Management didn't seem to be apologetic enough about it. When they sent the rescue car, a mechanic just handed the salesman a can of fuel and a funnel. The salesman and I had to fuel the car ourselves.
Did I mention, it's unsafe to run out of fuel in the middle of the road when there's Los Angeles traffic all around you?
I think the interior could use some improvement, the door carrier feels like it's made from hard plastics.
As for the handling, I have to say the E63 is a noticeable improvement over previous E-Class AMG cars. I have driven the E350, but wasn't able to put it through its paces, since it ran out of fuel on me in the middle of the test drive. Don't go to Anaheim Mercedes-Benz; they'll give you a test-drive on a car that runs out of fuel. Management didn't seem to be apologetic enough about it. When they sent the rescue car, a mechanic just handed the salesman a can of fuel and a funnel. The salesman and I had to fuel the car ourselves.
Did I mention, it's unsafe to run out of fuel in the middle of the road when there's Los Angeles traffic all around you?
Let me add to all this that if someone were to come to me and say "what should I buy, 211 or 212, money not an object", of course I'd tell them the 212 is the better car. I'd say if they're not against the looks, or not dead set on the 211's, then it's not really a contest.
However contrary to our new resident whino's (Capp) apparenty psychic powers, if I were in the market today, I still would buy a 211, or a 221, or Jag XF, etc. as I need my cars design to be enjoyable for me look at at all times, at all angles. If you love the 212's looks, you're gonna be a happy camper, as it will surely please in about every objective way as well.
Last edited by K-A; 09-23-2009 at 10:40 PM.
#82
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,336
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Let's not forget that Pontiac Aztec was also penned by a "design professional" who likely had an MFA degree or something similar
. So I wouldn't necessarily say that your occupational background gives your opinions on styling any extra weight.
I don't understand why some people feel such a strong urge to express their views on something as purely subjective as styling. You think that w212 looks cheap/disjointed/whatever? Great. I happen to think that w211 looks like a late 90's Taurus. I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. And that's just how it is.
People come here to seek advice on things like reliability, options, pricing, etc. But I can assure you that no prospective w212 buyer gives a crap what you personally think about that car's design. So what exactly are you trying to achieve with your constant bashing of the new E-Class? A cynic in me would say that you bought the outgoing model because you got a good deal on it and are now suffering from a major case of buyer's remorse, with which you deal by constantly rationalizing your purchase and trying to convince yourself that the new E is "ugly".
![Stick Out Tongue](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
I don't understand why some people feel such a strong urge to express their views on something as purely subjective as styling. You think that w212 looks cheap/disjointed/whatever? Great. I happen to think that w211 looks like a late 90's Taurus. I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. And that's just how it is.
People come here to seek advice on things like reliability, options, pricing, etc. But I can assure you that no prospective w212 buyer gives a crap what you personally think about that car's design. So what exactly are you trying to achieve with your constant bashing of the new E-Class? A cynic in me would say that you bought the outgoing model because you got a good deal on it and are now suffering from a major case of buyer's remorse, with which you deal by constantly rationalizing your purchase and trying to convince yourself that the new E is "ugly".
Hmmm, so you know why MB owners come here to post on MBWorld after your six illustrious posts as a newbie? Impressive.
btw, developing your skills at reading comprehension could probably help in the future. It avoids miscommunication and will make your life easier. No need for the 'nasty pill' prescription, either. Talk to your physician about alternatives.
Cheers.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#83
Hmmm, so you know why MB owners come here to post on MBWorld after your six illustrious posts as a newbie? Impressive.
btw, developing your skills at reading comprehension could probably help in the future. It avoids miscommunication and will make your life easier. No need for the 'nasty pill' prescription, either. Talk to your physician about alternatives.
Cheers.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
btw, developing your skills at reading comprehension could probably help in the future. It avoids miscommunication and will make your life easier. No need for the 'nasty pill' prescription, either. Talk to your physician about alternatives.
Cheers.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#85
Super Member
Design is subjective but great design is easy to spot and this car is not great. It is not bad, it is just not "wow". The exterior is a hodge podge of styles and is in some ways overdone to me. I am sure the build quality is much improved over the W211, but that is just not filling my emotional needs! So my 2006 W211 is my 1st Mercedes and my next car will need to be something else. Such is life! ![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
For those that really like it, Enjoy!
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
For those that really like it, Enjoy!
#86
Member
Sounds to me like people with the old model just wish they had the new one.
K-A we all know that you don't like the car, but do you tell us every day the same?!?
Change your life, there is more than only a MBForum....
#87
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Car Forums are a waste of time period. Don't fool yourself into thinking fan-boying is a better use of time than venting about something and discussing cars you do, and don't like. In fact, I release most of my negative energy on these Car Boards with the various debates, as my real and professional life don't have any room for that.
Again, the things I say about the car are all rationale and I give it credit along with criticism. What I don't get is why the fans of the car can't combat what I say with any realistic points, rather than complaints about my expressiveness.
#88
MBWorld Fanatic!
I do what I like, and apologize to no one. ![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Car Forums are a waste of time period. Don't fool yourself into thinking fan-boying is a better use of time than venting about something and discussing cars you do, and don't like. In fact, I release most of my negative energy on these Car Boards with the various debates, as my real and professional life don't have any room for that.
Again, the things I say about the car are all rationale and I give it credit along with criticism. What I don't get is why the fans of the car can't combat what I say with any realistic points, rather than complaints about my expressiveness.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Car Forums are a waste of time period. Don't fool yourself into thinking fan-boying is a better use of time than venting about something and discussing cars you do, and don't like. In fact, I release most of my negative energy on these Car Boards with the various debates, as my real and professional life don't have any room for that.
Again, the things I say about the car are all rationale and I give it credit along with criticism. What I don't get is why the fans of the car can't combat what I say with any realistic points, rather than complaints about my expressiveness.
If the car is technically sound and you agree, it leaves very little to argue about. Design is in the beholder's eye. There is no right or wrong. If we all liked the same thing,we would all be sleeping with the same woman.
#89
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,336
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Anyway, joking aside and I'll say one last thing then I'm out of here. The W212 has had some mixed reviews in respect to the design. Both from laypersons and the automotive press. Therefore it's a controversial design choice. If you look at a few posts back on this thread, you'll see I mentioned the same thing happened when the Enzo was introduced (designed by a Japanese designer; and his first Ferrari design ever.) It happens to all manufacturers. BMW went through the same thing with Chris Bangle. And his designs are still not 100% accepted by BMW owners and prospective buyers to this day.
From Top Gear, to TTAC, to Edmunds, to MBWorld, to the AMG Private Lounge (MBUSA's AMG forum), the W212 design has been discussed. It's everywhere. Some hate it, some are okay with it. BMW had the "Bangle Butt" comments and MB now has the "Hyundai Butt" comments. http://paultan.org/2009/01/12/w212-m...eophilus-chin/
And so the dialogue will continue until the car eventually disappears into the MB mainstream and it becomes simply the E Class.
And there's no need for the asinine comments about K-A being 'jealous' because he doesn't have one. The guy is obviously compassionate about MBs and design.
I'll say it again, it's simply a juvenile retort. Case in point: in May of 2009 I had a choice between a new W211 E63 (I already owned a 2009 E350 and I have two other cars so I was in no rush) and ordering a new W212 E63 (they will be released now in 2 weeks.) I specifically chose the W211. Why? Because, as SACGUY said in his post (see above), it "filled my emotional needs." Yes, design may be somewhat subjective (although designers will argue that point.) But design is an integral part of my daily life and so it's more important to me.
And as MBNUT1 says (see his above post): "If you are a committed Mercedes buyer and don't like the next evolution of your model where does that leave you? Particularly if the you like the size of it. Your choices are a) stick with Mercedes and go bigger or smaller. b) Hang on to your current one until the next iteration c) overlook what you don't like about the new one or d) look elsewhere."
It's as simple as that.
Many of the W212 buyers are either first time buyers or come from a pre-2005 E Class. The W212 fills your practical and emotional needs. But some owners are, as MBNUT1 implies, simply disappointed.
There's nothing wrong with controversy. It stimulates the mind and promotes new ideas and progress.
p.s., if anyone is sincerely interested in the dialogue of design, I recommend Vilem Flusser's "The Shape of Things: A Philosophy of Design." There's an English translation now available. It's an amazing dialectic. He puts forth the premise that design represents both a threat and an opportunity. And that design is not simply "subjective."
Last edited by 220S; 09-24-2009 at 12:40 PM.
#90
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,002
Received 47 Likes
on
41 Posts
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
Having said that,I think the W210 and W211 are great looking cars but it was time for a complete break from the past. We saw this in the last three genrations of the SL. Nothing in the design was carried over from one generation to the other. Some people will not buy this car for that reason.
Man, I remember when the 745i and current gen 5 series came out. The uproar was amazing. I mean people were signing petitions and sending them to BMW. So you guys complaining about the older model owners dislikes with the car should see the stuff people did when Bangle released his designs on the market. People were just flooding the internet.
Last edited by gaazmon; 09-24-2009 at 01:37 PM.
#91
MBWorld Fanatic!
If that is the case about all cars, then Porsche shouldn't be able to sell a 911 since the body hasn't really changed since the dawn of the car. You have to remember that when you change something drastically (like with Japanese cars), generally speaking, the value just plummets on the car.
Man, I remember when the 745i and current gen 5 series came out. The uproar was amazing. I mean people were signing petitions and sending them to BMW. So you guys complaining about the older model owners dislikes with the car should see the stuff people did when Bangle released his designs on the market. People were just flooding the internet.
Man, I remember when the 745i and current gen 5 series came out. The uproar was amazing. I mean people were signing petitions and sending them to BMW. So you guys complaining about the older model owners dislikes with the car should see the stuff people did when Bangle released his designs on the market. People were just flooding the internet.
The Porsche 911 is a niche market car and not a mainstream volume car. BMW's Bangle designs put BMW on the map. Look at the increase in market share from that point on. As far as resale value, the Japanese cars have the highest residual values due to their reliability. Best you rethink your logic. I'm tired of dicussing design. I've had a W210,W211, been there,done that. I've moved on.
Last edited by petee1997; 09-24-2009 at 02:26 PM.
#92
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: central pennsylvania
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12 CLS550, 09 CLS550, 04Cooper,10 Cooper S
The 911 is a niche car it is like a black suit, just changes a bit every decade but always a staple.
It is an exception in the sense that everything below it wants to be better than it and everything above it still has to be compared to it as being better than it.
The E class is a middle of the pecking order family/executive transport (in mercedes terms). It's ultimate purpose is safety/luxury with the branding of a three pointed star. I think the new model serves that criteria well. If you want more from a benz, get an S. If you can live with less get a C. Design is subjective but mid size sedans are not exactly designed for boulevard cruising or arriving at some grand occasion. Mid size sedans are designed to be driven daily and to transport. That is why they have 4 doors, a generous boot and as a plus the E has tech, comfort and luxury.
On a separate note, I saw a 350 in the parking lot at work today. The trunk lid spoiler realy brings together the rear on this model nicely. I think this model could have used a more pronounced decklid and this finishes the car nicely
It is an exception in the sense that everything below it wants to be better than it and everything above it still has to be compared to it as being better than it.
The E class is a middle of the pecking order family/executive transport (in mercedes terms). It's ultimate purpose is safety/luxury with the branding of a three pointed star. I think the new model serves that criteria well. If you want more from a benz, get an S. If you can live with less get a C. Design is subjective but mid size sedans are not exactly designed for boulevard cruising or arriving at some grand occasion. Mid size sedans are designed to be driven daily and to transport. That is why they have 4 doors, a generous boot and as a plus the E has tech, comfort and luxury.
On a separate note, I saw a 350 in the parking lot at work today. The trunk lid spoiler realy brings together the rear on this model nicely. I think this model could have used a more pronounced decklid and this finishes the car nicely
#93
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,002
Received 47 Likes
on
41 Posts
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
If you look at a few posts back on this thread, you'll see I mentioned the same thing happened when the Enzo was introduced (designed by a Japanese designer; and his first Ferrari design ever.) It happens to all manufacturers. BMW went through the same thing with Chris Bangle. And his designs are still not 100% accepted by BMW owners and prospective buyers to this day.
From Top Gear, to TTAC, to Edmunds, to MBWorld, to the AMG Private Lounge (MBUSA's AMG forum), the W212 design has been discussed. It's everywhere. Some hate it, some are okay with it. BMW had the "Bangle Butt" comments and MB now has the "Hyundai Butt" comments. http://paultan.org/2009/01/12/w212-m...eophilus-chin/
From Top Gear, to TTAC, to Edmunds, to MBWorld, to the AMG Private Lounge (MBUSA's AMG forum), the W212 design has been discussed. It's everywhere. Some hate it, some are okay with it. BMW had the "Bangle Butt" comments and MB now has the "Hyundai Butt" comments. http://paultan.org/2009/01/12/w212-m...eophilus-chin/
I liked that Theophilus chin idea, looks more like C/CL tail light mixed together. The W212 tail light reminds me of the W210 E with the two pieces, one on the trunk lid and one on the side. Again, I think they should have gone with one piece head light and tail light to stay in line with the current MB designs (S, CL, C). The C, CLK, and SL before had one piece headlights but would look like two pieces from further back due to the design (kind of like a cell splitting into two, but not yet separated). I love the current C head lights, nice design, and the SL has a design similar to SLK/CLS IMO.
EDIT: Actually looking at the "chin" tail light again, it looks like an A6 tail light. What do u guys think?
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
Last edited by gaazmon; 09-24-2009 at 10:51 PM.
#94
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,002
Received 47 Likes
on
41 Posts
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I do what I like, and apologize to no one. ![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Car Forums are a waste of time period. Don't fool yourself into thinking fan-boying is a better use of time than venting about something and discussing cars you do, and don't like. In fact, I release most of my negative energy on these Car Boards with the various debates, as my real and professional life don't have any room for that.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Car Forums are a waste of time period. Don't fool yourself into thinking fan-boying is a better use of time than venting about something and discussing cars you do, and don't like. In fact, I release most of my negative energy on these Car Boards with the various debates, as my real and professional life don't have any room for that.
I don't really have anyone to talk to about MB related stuff cause most of my friends are all like "MB sucks. BMW and Audi rule." Anything new BMW and Audi come up with they love just cause of the name. If Lexus took sh*t and put in a box with that L logo, people would buy it.
#95
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Unlike maybe some people, I like to debate design, even though it's subjective, it can be done on an intelligent and respectful level. For instance, the guy claiming the 212 is more "cohesive" than the 211, I'd be down to know why, and I am more than willing (and do) post why I disagree and what makes the 212 non-cohesive to me.
And to paraphrase an 'old Russian proverb,' some men will live with an ugly woman because she cooks well. Some men will live with a beautiful woman who can't cook ![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Anyway, joking aside and I'll say one last thing then I'm out of here. The W212 has had some mixed reviews in respect to the design. Both from laypersons and the automotive press. Therefore it's a controversial design choice. If you look at a few posts back on this thread, you'll see I mentioned the same thing happened when the Enzo was introduced (designed by a Japanese designer; and his first Ferrari design ever.) It happens to all manufacturers. BMW went through the same thing with Chris Bangle. And his designs are still not 100% accepted by BMW owners and prospective buyers to this day.
From Top Gear, to TTAC, to Edmunds, to MBWorld, to the AMG Private Lounge (MBUSA's AMG forum), the W212 design has been discussed. It's everywhere. Some hate it, some are okay with it. BMW had the "Bangle Butt" comments and MB now has the "Hyundai Butt" comments. http://paultan.org/2009/01/12/w212-m...eophilus-chin/
And so the dialogue will continue until the car eventually disappears into the MB mainstream and it becomes simply the E Class.
And there's no need for the asinine comments about K-A being 'jealous' because he doesn't have one. The guy is obviously compassionate about MBs and design.
I'll say it again, it's simply a juvenile retort. Case in point: in May of 2009 I had a choice between a new W211 E63 (I already owned a 2009 E350 and I have two other cars so I was in no rush) and ordering a new W212 E63 (they will be released now in 2 weeks.) I specifically chose the W211. Why? Because, as SACGUY said in his post (see above), it "filled my emotional needs." Yes, design may be somewhat subjective (although designers will argue that point.) But design is an integral part of my daily life and so it's more important to me.
And as MBNUT1 says (see his above post): "If you are a committed Mercedes buyer and don't like the next evolution of your model where does that leave you? Particularly if the you like the size of it. Your choices are a) stick with Mercedes and go bigger or smaller. b) Hang on to your current one until the next iteration c) overlook what you don't like about the new one or d) look elsewhere."
It's as simple as that.
Many of the W212 buyers are either first time buyers or come from a pre-2005 E Class. The W212 fills your practical and emotional needs. But some owners are, as MBNUT1 implies, simply disappointed.
There's nothing wrong with controversy. It stimulates the mind and promotes new ideas and progress.
p.s., if anyone is sincerely interested in the dialogue of design, I recommend Vilem Flusser's "The Shape of Things: A Philosophy of Design." There's an English translation now available. It's an amazing dialectic. He puts forth the premise that design represents both a threat and an opportunity. And that design is not simply "subjective."
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Anyway, joking aside and I'll say one last thing then I'm out of here. The W212 has had some mixed reviews in respect to the design. Both from laypersons and the automotive press. Therefore it's a controversial design choice. If you look at a few posts back on this thread, you'll see I mentioned the same thing happened when the Enzo was introduced (designed by a Japanese designer; and his first Ferrari design ever.) It happens to all manufacturers. BMW went through the same thing with Chris Bangle. And his designs are still not 100% accepted by BMW owners and prospective buyers to this day.
From Top Gear, to TTAC, to Edmunds, to MBWorld, to the AMG Private Lounge (MBUSA's AMG forum), the W212 design has been discussed. It's everywhere. Some hate it, some are okay with it. BMW had the "Bangle Butt" comments and MB now has the "Hyundai Butt" comments. http://paultan.org/2009/01/12/w212-m...eophilus-chin/
And so the dialogue will continue until the car eventually disappears into the MB mainstream and it becomes simply the E Class.
And there's no need for the asinine comments about K-A being 'jealous' because he doesn't have one. The guy is obviously compassionate about MBs and design.
I'll say it again, it's simply a juvenile retort. Case in point: in May of 2009 I had a choice between a new W211 E63 (I already owned a 2009 E350 and I have two other cars so I was in no rush) and ordering a new W212 E63 (they will be released now in 2 weeks.) I specifically chose the W211. Why? Because, as SACGUY said in his post (see above), it "filled my emotional needs." Yes, design may be somewhat subjective (although designers will argue that point.) But design is an integral part of my daily life and so it's more important to me.
And as MBNUT1 says (see his above post): "If you are a committed Mercedes buyer and don't like the next evolution of your model where does that leave you? Particularly if the you like the size of it. Your choices are a) stick with Mercedes and go bigger or smaller. b) Hang on to your current one until the next iteration c) overlook what you don't like about the new one or d) look elsewhere."
It's as simple as that.
Many of the W212 buyers are either first time buyers or come from a pre-2005 E Class. The W212 fills your practical and emotional needs. But some owners are, as MBNUT1 implies, simply disappointed.
There's nothing wrong with controversy. It stimulates the mind and promotes new ideas and progress.
p.s., if anyone is sincerely interested in the dialogue of design, I recommend Vilem Flusser's "The Shape of Things: A Philosophy of Design." There's an English translation now available. It's an amazing dialectic. He puts forth the premise that design represents both a threat and an opportunity. And that design is not simply "subjective."
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#96
MBWorld Fanatic!
A new car attracts new people searching for information to help them make a decision on their future purchase. This forum has been hijacked by non owners.
Anyone coming here for information will only get opinions instead of experiences from owners.
Anyone coming here for information will only get opinions instead of experiences from owners.
#97
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
That will change once more people buy the car. Not enough owners yet to make up for the majority. I dunno if the car is selling slowly, etc. but of course the economy isn't helping anything. Soon enough the place will be flooding with owners, and "Tech Talk" about the car. Right now it's still new enough to where people will be coming saying things like "Saw the new E today for the first time", which will naturally go into an opinion based Thread.
#98
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,002
Received 47 Likes
on
41 Posts
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
Next friday I have an appointment at the dealer for some recalls on the CL500. Gonna go see if I can get a test drive of the new E. I'm sure the "drive" and "performance" of the car is way above the level of the W211 (all eyes are on the new E63 to be released). If the engine and tranny mix feels anything like the W204 C350 in regards to power and throttle response, then it's a big improvement.