Karesh's TTAC Review of the W212 sedan
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,336
Likes: 8
Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Karesh's TTAC Review of the W212 sedan
Michael Karesh (owner of True Delta and a member here on MBWorld) wrote a review of the W212 on TTAC.
Here it is: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/rev...-benz-e-class/
Covers some of what's already been discussed here (and specifically the numb steering.)
Personally, I'll either stick with AMG, or go to the S Class, or go to another brand. The E Class has become a relatively pricey sedan that doesn't offer enough for me. The W212 didn't have the kind of real improvements I was hoping for (for my personal reasons.) And it's not something that special and/or different.
There are a lot of other worthwhile choices out there. Things have changed for the better in the auto buying world and we have decent options besides the E Class.
Here it is: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/rev...-benz-e-class/
Covers some of what's already been discussed here (and specifically the numb steering.)
Personally, I'll either stick with AMG, or go to the S Class, or go to another brand. The E Class has become a relatively pricey sedan that doesn't offer enough for me. The W212 didn't have the kind of real improvements I was hoping for (for my personal reasons.) And it's not something that special and/or different.
There are a lot of other worthwhile choices out there. Things have changed for the better in the auto buying world and we have decent options besides the E Class.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,975
Likes: 1,343
From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
I agreed with most of it. Don't remember the complaints about the numb steering save perhaps good old Jeremy Clarkson. From what I had read I thought the the steering had been improved upon from the W211. Of course the press always seems to do that with each new model only to say how bad the last one was when the next one comes out. I remember that in particular when the W210 came out.
Last edited by MBNUT1; Sep 27, 2009 at 10:57 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,085
Likes: 59
From: Los Angeles
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
I love TTAC. But ouch about the review. Lol, even the SL65 AMG Black Series review made me wonder why they built that.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Great Review, and I agree with about everything.
I know I'll get harped on for saying this, but I've predicted this might be the start of M-B's ending "reign" with the mid-size Luxo's. This car just doesn't have the same enthusiasm or leading qualities over its competition as we've witnessed in the past.
A good point he made was, how the car will look dated fast. I agree, the 211 and all prior E models were much more graceful and simple, which did help them last for 7 years pretty smoothly. I really think this car will show its age by that time. And his "post-Bangle-era" thing is spot on, all cars are pretty much falling for that. The 212 does command you to notice it more, which to me isn't good for timelessness, but should make for a stronger debut you'd assume, yet it isn't as "beautiful" a design as the more simple 211 like he put it.
I read an interview with Bruno Sacco where he said BMW's designs are some of least favourites out right now, and how he said there's "no vision", and something like "where do you go from there".... Seems he is spot on, as the F01, although I love it, is getting called "boring" by those expecting outrageous Bangle stuff, and I know the next 5'er (F10), might get the same reaction.
Like I've always said, all else aside, when it comes to keeping Sales alive, the biggest things going for this E are the $5K lower selling price than the W211, and the fact that it should be more Reliable overall. If those don't work for it, it doesn't matter how greatly it's engineered, or what people think of the styling, it's gonna be in trouble.
I know I'll get harped on for saying this, but I've predicted this might be the start of M-B's ending "reign" with the mid-size Luxo's. This car just doesn't have the same enthusiasm or leading qualities over its competition as we've witnessed in the past.
A good point he made was, how the car will look dated fast. I agree, the 211 and all prior E models were much more graceful and simple, which did help them last for 7 years pretty smoothly. I really think this car will show its age by that time. And his "post-Bangle-era" thing is spot on, all cars are pretty much falling for that. The 212 does command you to notice it more, which to me isn't good for timelessness, but should make for a stronger debut you'd assume, yet it isn't as "beautiful" a design as the more simple 211 like he put it.
I read an interview with Bruno Sacco where he said BMW's designs are some of least favourites out right now, and how he said there's "no vision", and something like "where do you go from there".... Seems he is spot on, as the F01, although I love it, is getting called "boring" by those expecting outrageous Bangle stuff, and I know the next 5'er (F10), might get the same reaction.
Like I've always said, all else aside, when it comes to keeping Sales alive, the biggest things going for this E are the $5K lower selling price than the W211, and the fact that it should be more Reliable overall. If those don't work for it, it doesn't matter how greatly it's engineered, or what people think of the styling, it's gonna be in trouble.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,085
Likes: 59
From: Los Angeles
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
Like I've always said, all else aside, when it comes to keeping Sales alive, the biggest things going for this E are the $5K lower selling price than the W211, and the fact that it should be more Reliable overall. If those don't work for it, it doesn't matter how greatly it's engineered, or what people think of the styling, it's gonna be in trouble.
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Toronto
2001 BMW 530i
I'm afraid I'm just not with him on the "Zombie" steering. I test drove the coupe (I know it's not the same car) and I did not get that impression at all. Felt pretty good to me. Guess I'll have to go back and test drive the sedan to be sure. I drive an E39 530i so I'm used to good road feel; the 350 coupe did not feel dead to me. Not at all. As for the W212 styling, I think it rocks big time but that's what makes this interesting.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: Germany
M-B GLE, Porsche 911 Turbo, Porsche Boxster (spouse)
I also didn't agree with his comments about the seats. The only people I personally have heard complaining about M-B seats being too hard are those who are a little broad in the beam.
Trending Topics
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
2009 Toyota Highlander, 2007 BMW 3-series
Due to a particularly boring afternoon, I read some of the comments posted after the review on TTAC. What I find interesting is that a couple of posters felt that because a Hyundai Genesis got 5 star crash ratings that it's every bit as safe as a Mercedes. I wish people could understand that Mercedes, and BMWs too are engineered to withstand high speed crash tests, as could occur on the Autobahn. Yes, many cars do well on the IIHS, and NHTSA crash testing, as these are relatively low speed tests (subpar American standardized testing much like EPA fuel ratings) and now even the scariest tin cans can pass these tests, like a Honda Fit. But when it comes right down to it, if I'm involved in a crash, I hope it's in a German car. I have a 3-series and a big 'ol Highlander, and if I knew I was going to crash, I hope I'm in my 3 series.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 459
Likes: 6
From: N.J USA
2010 E550.. Gone but never forgotton - E63 AMG..
Great Review, and I agree with about everything.
I know I'll get harped on for saying this, but I've predicted this might be the start of M-B's ending "reign" with the mid-size Luxo's. This car just doesn't have the same enthusiasm or leading qualities over its competition as we've witnessed in the past.
A good point he made was, how the car will look dated fast. I agree, the 211 and all prior E models were much more graceful and simple, which did help them last for 7 years pretty smoothly. I really think this car will show its age by that time. And his "post-Bangle-era" thing is spot on, all cars are pretty much falling for that. The 212 does command you to notice it more, which to me isn't good for timelessness, but should make for a stronger debut you'd assume, yet it isn't as "beautiful" a design as the more simple 211 like he put it.
I read an interview with Bruno Sacco where he said BMW's designs are some of least favourites out right now, and how he said there's "no vision", and something like "where do you go from there".... Seems he is spot on, as the F01, although I love it, is getting called "boring" by those expecting outrageous Bangle stuff, and I know the next 5'er (F10), might get the same reaction.
Like I've always said, all else aside, when it comes to keeping Sales alive, the biggest things going for this E are the $5K lower selling price than the W211, and the fact that it should be more Reliable overall. If those don't work for it, it doesn't matter how greatly it's engineered, or what people think of the styling, it's gonna be in trouble.
I know I'll get harped on for saying this, but I've predicted this might be the start of M-B's ending "reign" with the mid-size Luxo's. This car just doesn't have the same enthusiasm or leading qualities over its competition as we've witnessed in the past.
A good point he made was, how the car will look dated fast. I agree, the 211 and all prior E models were much more graceful and simple, which did help them last for 7 years pretty smoothly. I really think this car will show its age by that time. And his "post-Bangle-era" thing is spot on, all cars are pretty much falling for that. The 212 does command you to notice it more, which to me isn't good for timelessness, but should make for a stronger debut you'd assume, yet it isn't as "beautiful" a design as the more simple 211 like he put it.
I read an interview with Bruno Sacco where he said BMW's designs are some of least favourites out right now, and how he said there's "no vision", and something like "where do you go from there".... Seems he is spot on, as the F01, although I love it, is getting called "boring" by those expecting outrageous Bangle stuff, and I know the next 5'er (F10), might get the same reaction.
Like I've always said, all else aside, when it comes to keeping Sales alive, the biggest things going for this E are the $5K lower selling price than the W211, and the fact that it should be more Reliable overall. If those don't work for it, it doesn't matter how greatly it's engineered, or what people think of the styling, it's gonna be in trouble.
Yeah, great review because it perfectly fits your hate of the new E which makes the previous look so old and dated.. Keep driving your dinosaur, Hater.
Your constant hate and obsession with the new E has been well documented.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 459
Likes: 6
From: N.J USA
2010 E550.. Gone but never forgotton - E63 AMG..
I'm afraid I'm just not with him on the "Zombie" steering. I test drove the coupe (I know it's not the same car) and I did not get that impression at all. Felt pretty good to me. Guess I'll have to go back and test drive the sedan to be sure. I drive an E39 530i so I'm used to good road feel; the 350 coupe did not feel dead to me. Not at all. As for the W212 styling, I think it rocks big time but that's what makes this interesting.
I test drove the new E550 which I happen to be picking up tomorrow and its miles better in the steering dept than the previous non AMG E..
Car n Driver who always hate on Mercedes praised the new E for no longer having the numb steering and a lot closer to BMW like steering. Haters will always Hate, its what they do.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
You like it for your braggart reasons, so good for you.
"Dinosaur"? Lol. Unlike some of you, I don't get offended and butt-hurt over car talk and criticism of the car I drive.
BTW, the new E might make the old look "dated" to you, with your way of thinking, but to myself and quite a few, it's very much the opposite. If you have any logical outlook on car design, you'd realize the new E, with its complete departure from the 211's design, makes it (211) look as dated as any other car that the new E mimmicks did (many) when they came out.
Again, only someone who's trying to make themselves feel better about something, resorts to the "hater" comments. You obviously love the new E immensely, good for you, it makes me personally think you don't have the best taste in design, but I'm not going to call you a "hater" 'cause of it.
It's your view. What makes your whole argument childish, is you think that just because I don't like what you do, it makes me a "hater", haha.BTW, the steering of the new E's is indeed better than the old E's.
Last edited by K-A; Sep 29, 2009 at 08:32 PM.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,336
Likes: 8
Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
I test drove the new E550 which I happen to be picking up tomorrow and its miles better in the steering dept than the previous non AMG E..
Car n Driver who always hate on Mercedes praised the new E for no longer having the numb steering and a lot closer to BMW like steering. Haters will always Hate, its what they do.
Car n Driver who always hate on Mercedes praised the new E for no longer having the numb steering and a lot closer to BMW like steering. Haters will always Hate, its what they do.
I'd like to compare a W212 E550 and a W212 E350. Is there any noticeable difference? Not just with the tiller, but with the overall suspension in respect to handling.
The W212 E63 AMG will be something to keep an eye on, esp with MCT. And the race start function (aka a "M" button.) Personally, it's still difficult to get over the car's rear end design. Argh! But maybe the wagon will solve that for me (if it's available here in the US.)
What Karesh says at the end is interesting: "Who is this car for?" That's a good question when the mid sized luxo sedan category is getting filled with a lot of choices out there.
Maybe Michael will come on here and say more about his review.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,085
Likes: 59
From: Los Angeles
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
What I find interesting is that a couple of posters felt that because a Hyundai Genesis got 5 star crash ratings that it's every bit as safe as a Mercedes. I wish people could understand that Mercedes, and BMWs too are engineered to withstand high speed crash tests, as could occur on the Autobahn... I have a 3-series and a big 'ol Highlander, and if I knew I was going to crash, I hope I'm in my 3 series.
I'm sure the steering in the W212 is better than in the W211. I'm guessing on this since I've driven W204s many times and had a W203 at one point, and there was a big difference. MB made great advances with the throttle response, shifting, and steering in regards to the new C and other models as well. I think the programming in the computers are just better.
Last edited by gaazmon; Sep 29, 2009 at 09:53 PM.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I have a new C as a Loaner right now (again). Aside from the putrid interior and fairly harsh and not-too-insulated ride, it's definitely a lot more nimble than my E, you can throw it around a lot more. Pretty fun to just beat around town. The steering I actually prefer in my E, maybe 'cause I'm more used to it, but it's a little smoother I feel, however not as sporty and precise as the C's. The tranny in the C is a lot more refined than the early 7G I have in my E too.
I can imagine the 3-Series must be a fun little car to drive around, as it's more Sporty and a better handler than the C.
I can imagine the 3-Series must be a fun little car to drive around, as it's more Sporty and a better handler than the C.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,085
Likes: 59
From: Los Angeles
2009 SL550 Roadster Diamond White, 2008 CLK550 Coupe Obsidian Black
I agree with preferring the E steering as well, it feels heavier and I feel more confident with it or something.
Last edited by gaazmon; Sep 30, 2009 at 01:42 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 9
My impressions are just that. If someone drives a car and likes everything about it, then I'm fine with that no matter what my own opinions are. I've even (almost) accepted that my wife will buy a car that I don't personally care for.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 261
From: Ontario,Canada
...24 GLE53
I can answer Karesh's question. The car was built for guys like me. I traded my 08 328XI on the w212. The BMW was prabably a better car but I hated the tires and found the steering heavy. The 5 series would have been a better car for me but the Bangle design turned me off. If I were in my 30s or 40s I would never buy an E class. Excluding the AMG, these cars were made for the older crowd. In my father's day, the equivalent was a Buick. Sad to say I've become a Buick type of guy. The natural evolution from here is death. Finally, my point is, if you are under 50, there is a better car out there for you.
PS 220S no smart *** remarks.
PS 220S no smart *** remarks.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,336
Likes: 8
Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
I can answer Karesh's question. The car was built for guys like me. I traded my 08 328XI on the w212. The BMW was prabably a better car but I hated the tires and found the steering heavy. The 5 series would have been a better car for me but the Bangle design turned me off. If I were in my 30s or 40s I would never buy an E class. Excluding the AMG, these cars were made for the older crowd. In my father's day, the equivalent was a Buick. Sad to say I've become a Buick type of guy. The natural evolution from here is death. Finally, my point is, if you are under 50, there is a better car out there for you.
PS 220S no smart *** remarks.
PS 220S no smart *** remarks.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 9
Is Buick among the companies that have dropped Tiger?
Can't remember if I said this in the review, but people have told me that the E-Class steering is great on the Autobahn. The problem with steering optimized for the Autobahn...is that I don't have the opportunity to drive on the Autobahn.
With Pontiac gone, Buick is actually developing some driver-oriented cars. The future Regal GS could be fun.
Can't remember if I said this in the review, but people have told me that the E-Class steering is great on the Autobahn. The problem with steering optimized for the Autobahn...is that I don't have the opportunity to drive on the Autobahn.
With Pontiac gone, Buick is actually developing some driver-oriented cars. The future Regal GS could be fun.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 261
From: Ontario,Canada
...24 GLE53
Just goes to show you, there's an exception to every rule. However I read last week that Buick pulled all the freebee cars. The reason given was that his contract had expired. Expect Tiger to be driving something more fitting to his age group when he resurfaces.
Last edited by petee1997; Jan 15, 2010 at 08:29 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
Likes: 349
From: Huntington NY
S560
The only thing I could see Tiger driving now is a 'pimp daddy caddie' or maybe a lowrider 70's lincoln on 20's......
