How good is the Harman/Kardon system?
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 315
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From: Sweden
W166 ML350 BT
How good is the Harman/Kardon system?
Hello, first post...
I've been driving BMW 5-series the last two cars, I had plans to order the 535i GT, but it didn't have enough trunk and the looks weren't convincing me...
So last week I ordered a E350CDI Estate AMG Sport pretty loaded with Command, Harman/Kardon and stuff like that.
Now I'm curious about how good the Harman/Kardon system is. Is there anyone here able to give me a brief review?
I've been driving BMW 5-series the last two cars, I had plans to order the 535i GT, but it didn't have enough trunk and the looks weren't convincing me...
So last week I ordered a E350CDI Estate AMG Sport pretty loaded with Command, Harman/Kardon and stuff like that.
Now I'm curious about how good the Harman/Kardon system is. Is there anyone here able to give me a brief review?
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 65
Likes: 4
From: SF Bay Area, CA
2010 E550
The HK system on my e550 sounds pretty good. Sounds good when you play songs with a lot of instrumentals, vocals, etc.. If you are into songs with a lot of bass, you probably won't be too thrilled by it. But overall, I'm pretty satisfied with it.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
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From: Huntington NY
S560
I found the HK in my 07 e550 had a MUCH better soundstage. This car I hear music coming mainly from the door/pillar unless I really play with the balance (which I've never had to do in a car). My last car had a far more centered stage. I think the last system had a center channel, I'm not sure if there is one on the new model.
I'm very surprised, I feel like it is a step back from the last series...
I'm very surprised, I feel like it is a step back from the last series...
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 65
Likes: 4
From: SF Bay Area, CA
2010 E550
emilner, Cool car! Was wondering are those tiles you have on your garage floor? I was thinking of either doing that or the epoxy paint stuff. Any suggestions? Sorry kind of off the topic.
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Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 459
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From: N.J USA
2010 E550.. Gone but never forgotton - E63 AMG..
There is no comparison between the Stereo in the W211 vs W212. The stereo in the new E is far better than the W211. My HK in my E63 did not sound nearly as loud and crisp as the HK in my E550.
W211 - 500 watts 12 speakers.
W212 - 615 watts 14 speakers.
W211 - 500 watts 12 speakers.
W212 - 615 watts 14 speakers.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
2006 E55 and 2002 E320
I will say this though, the epoxy is super easy to clean and is also unfortunately super slippery.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,090
Likes: 11
From: SF Bay Area, CA
2006 E55 and 2002 E320
Hello, first post...
I've been driving BMW 5-series the last two cars, I had plans to order the 535i GT, but it didn't have enough trunk and the looks weren't convincing me...
So last week I ordered a E350CDI Estate AMG Sport pretty loaded with Command, Harman/Kardon and stuff like that.
Now I'm curious about how good the Harman/Kardon system is. Is there anyone here able to give me a brief review?
I've been driving BMW 5-series the last two cars, I had plans to order the 535i GT, but it didn't have enough trunk and the looks weren't convincing me...
So last week I ordered a E350CDI Estate AMG Sport pretty loaded with Command, Harman/Kardon and stuff like that.
Now I'm curious about how good the Harman/Kardon system is. Is there anyone here able to give me a brief review?
I have the HK audio system in a 2005 C-Class, when I first started listening to it, it was somewhat more center-staged and I was relatively impressed with the performance. After I gained experience with other cars, I realized the HK system is a little bit overpowered and could be better tuned.
I think the HK audio system in the C and E class vehicles is good for the average user, but probably very mediocre to trained ears.
Burmester is coming out with audio systems soon, that's going to be interesting!
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
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From: Huntington NY
S560
I cannot get over how BAD the soundstage is. Yes, it is clear and has great hi's and lows but it all comes from the drivers door unless you fool with the balance making it TERRIBLE for a passenger. I actually pulled out the pillar tweeters and put some insulation to muffle them a little to move the stage away from the door (on my week old car, that's how much I hate it). I then moved the stage back 2 and 2 to the right. This helped out quite a bit. Next I want to put in a new 3.5" dash speaker, one that is more efficient. MB angled the dash speaker perfectly, but they kept the level too low. With a more efficient speaker the level will increase moving the soundstage more towards the center.
You really don't notice it much until you get a strong female vocalist, especially like a Sarah Mcloughlin. Close your eyes and she is singing from the drivers mirror.
I have to say that sonically my 211 blew away the 212. Maybe not in range or volume, but definitely in soundstage- also the hardest thing to get right in a vehicle.
You really don't notice it much until you get a strong female vocalist, especially like a Sarah Mcloughlin. Close your eyes and she is singing from the drivers mirror.
I have to say that sonically my 211 blew away the 212. Maybe not in range or volume, but definitely in soundstage- also the hardest thing to get right in a vehicle.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I cannot get over how BAD the soundstage is. Yes, it is clear and has great hi's and lows but it all comes from the drivers door unless you fool with the balance making it TERRIBLE for a passenger. I actually pulled out the pillar tweeters and put some insulation to muffle them a little to move the stage away from the door (on my week old car, that's how much I hate it). I then moved the stage back 2 and 2 to the right. This helped out quite a bit. Next I want to put in a new 3.5" dash speaker, one that is more efficient. MB angled the dash speaker perfectly, but they kept the level too low. With a more efficient speaker the level will increase moving the soundstage more towards the center.
You really don't notice it much until you get a strong female vocalist, especially like a Sarah Mcloughlin. Close your eyes and she is singing from the drivers mirror.
I have to say that sonically my 211 blew away the 212. Maybe not in range or volume, but definitely in soundstage- also the hardest thing to get right in a vehicle.
You really don't notice it much until you get a strong female vocalist, especially like a Sarah Mcloughlin. Close your eyes and she is singing from the drivers mirror.
I have to say that sonically my 211 blew away the 212. Maybe not in range or volume, but definitely in soundstage- also the hardest thing to get right in a vehicle.
That singing from the door mirror cracked me up.That's interesting, I'll pay attention to the difference in sound next time I sit in a 212. I think my cars sounds fine, nice and crisp, clean, etc. If you turn the Bass up it actually gets pretty boomy.
That's crazy you actually muffled the tweeters! Too much highs is unbearable for me too, I spend a lot of time around LOUD audio/PA systems, so when I'm listening to music on my own, the sound has to be controlled and non-screamy.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
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From: Huntington NY
S560
I didn't want to muffle them, but it was an experiment. I tried covering the tweeter with my hand and it helped the soundstage. So I figured I could muffle them a little (mind you you can still hear them well, they are just cut down a little). I will make up for them by putting in a better quality two way center speaker that is more efficient.
It's one of several issues I have with the car (chattering wipers, dead body in the trunk is back, a few rattles here and there, VERY twitchy handling at the limit etc -all when compared to my 07 E550). I will post a full review when I have more time to get used to the car and maybe it breaks in a little....
It's one of several issues I have with the car (chattering wipers, dead body in the trunk is back, a few rattles here and there, VERY twitchy handling at the limit etc -all when compared to my 07 E550). I will post a full review when I have more time to get used to the car and maybe it breaks in a little....
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I didn't want to muffle them, but it was an experiment. I tried covering the tweeter with my hand and it helped the soundstage. So I figured I could muffle them a little (mind you you can still hear them well, they are just cut down a little). I will make up for them by putting in a better quality two way center speaker that is more efficient.
It's one of several issues I have with the car (chattering wipers, dead body in the trunk is back, a few rattles here and there, VERY twitchy handling at the limit etc -all when compared to my 07 E550). I will post a full review when I have more time to get used to the car and maybe it breaks in a little....
It's one of several issues I have with the car (chattering wipers, dead body in the trunk is back, a few rattles here and there, VERY twitchy handling at the limit etc -all when compared to my 07 E550). I will post a full review when I have more time to get used to the car and maybe it breaks in a little....
Abut the rattling, that does surprise me, my car has a couple buzzes/rattles here and there sometimes, and I assume the 212 should be even less rattle-buzzy than the average 211.
It seems M-B makes the steering more assisted with each F.L & generation, as the regular soccer-moms, etc. find it easier to maneuver. I always like a slightly heavier steering feel, partly because I'm probably used to it from past cars, but it feels a bit more confidence inspiring to me.
I understand what you mean about the tweeters now, it seems a LOT of systems in cars don't seem to understand the concept of a complete and harmonious soundstage.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Cincinnati
2010 E350 4Matic
I didn't want to muffle them, but it was an experiment. I tried covering the tweeter with my hand and it helped the soundstage. So I figured I could muffle them a little (mind you you can still hear them well, they are just cut down a little). I will make up for them by putting in a better quality two way center speaker that is more efficient.
It's one of several issues I have with the car (chattering wipers, dead body in the trunk is back, a few rattles here and there, VERY twitchy handling at the limit etc -all when compared to my 07 E550). I will post a full review when I have more time to get used to the car and maybe it breaks in a little....
It's one of several issues I have with the car (chattering wipers, dead body in the trunk is back, a few rattles here and there, VERY twitchy handling at the limit etc -all when compared to my 07 E550). I will post a full review when I have more time to get used to the car and maybe it breaks in a little....
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
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From: Huntington NY
S560
It happens when going over a large pothole or going slowly over a speed bump. It sounds like an object in the trunk "thumped". It mostly happens in the rear of the car, but over a speed bump it happens in the front too. If you search the 211 forum you will see they used to refer to it as a "dead body in the trunk" bouncing around, and thats from the non-mafia guys! This car has FAR more rattles and noises than my 211!!
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Flame suit on. 
But you know, after driving the W212 several times now (and will be doing it again at the AMG invite at El Toro), I'm not convinced that there's that much truly different over the 2009 W211. Yes, the body style has changed. The interior has changed. But the driving experience is relatively the same. The steering is not that much improved, the motors are the same. The 2010 E550 handling is not radically different over the 2009 AMG chassis. The only big significant difference is the MCT tranny in the E63. Otherwise the drivetrain is still the same on the non-AMG.
If you're going from a 2003 W211, then yeah, I certainly see the difference (improved ergonomics, COMAND, better build quality, etc..)
But it's not a RADICALLY different car. Maybe in a few more years (and after a facelift) when there's going to be a motor/drivetrain change. In the meantime, if you're coming from a 5-year old W211, then it's no doubt a very good choice and upgrade. But it's kinda still the same car in most respects. A decent basic mid-size sedan.
But you know, after driving the W212 several times now (and will be doing it again at the AMG invite at El Toro), I'm not convinced that there's that much truly different over the 2009 W211. Yes, the body style has changed. The interior has changed. But the driving experience is relatively the same. The steering is not that much improved, the motors are the same. The 2010 E550 handling is not radically different over the 2009 AMG chassis. The only big significant difference is the MCT tranny in the E63. Otherwise the drivetrain is still the same on the non-AMG.
If you're going from a 2003 W211, then yeah, I certainly see the difference (improved ergonomics, COMAND, better build quality, etc..)
But it's not a RADICALLY different car. Maybe in a few more years (and after a facelift) when there's going to be a motor/drivetrain change. In the meantime, if you're coming from a 5-year old W211, then it's no doubt a very good choice and upgrade. But it's kinda still the same car in most respects. A decent basic mid-size sedan.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,936
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From: Huntington NY
S560
I certainly would not expect it to be a radically different car. Why would it be? Any good model updates invole evolution not revolution. You only utilize revolution when the last product sucked that bad. Thank god they didn't revolutionize the new model, don't destroy the formula that made it such a success. The 211 is a great car, I personally think the exterior of the new model is great looking, the interior is nice but I prefer the elegance of the 211 interior.
I have had a few issues I hope to resolve at the dealer, chock it up to new vehicle issues. I do feel they are inexcusable, but I am also REALLY picky- which seems so since I have not seen anyone else make these claims (I could also have a one off car).
I will say under normal driving the 212 is much better than my 211. It is solid, yet handles well up to the limit. I am getting used to the at the limit handling- it takes some getting used to. I will say it CAN outhandle my 211, once you get used to it. I prefer the old style- handle great but don't over involve me. The new method seems more BMWish, LOTS of feedback, precise, but demanding at the limit. The electronics are better as well (except the soundstage).
I can't understand what more you would look for? Yes the motors are the same- but that is a MB trate for decades- and not for nothing but the 550 has one of the best engines I have ever seen (not so much for the 350). And I could not imagine a new tranny, this one is near perfect (faster shifts on the floor would be my only improvement)...
I have had a few issues I hope to resolve at the dealer, chock it up to new vehicle issues. I do feel they are inexcusable, but I am also REALLY picky- which seems so since I have not seen anyone else make these claims (I could also have a one off car).
I will say under normal driving the 212 is much better than my 211. It is solid, yet handles well up to the limit. I am getting used to the at the limit handling- it takes some getting used to. I will say it CAN outhandle my 211, once you get used to it. I prefer the old style- handle great but don't over involve me. The new method seems more BMWish, LOTS of feedback, precise, but demanding at the limit. The electronics are better as well (except the soundstage).
I can't understand what more you would look for? Yes the motors are the same- but that is a MB trate for decades- and not for nothing but the 550 has one of the best engines I have ever seen (not so much for the 350). And I could not imagine a new tranny, this one is near perfect (faster shifts on the floor would be my only improvement)...
