Originally Posted by ipp

That is what we in Europe call the Elegance version, and it comes with 16" wheels. We also have the Classic and Avantgarde version. Classic is the base version, which looks horrible. With all of these versions you can add the AMG-package, which is similar to your Sport+Wheels.

Originally Posted by Rowrbazzle

Yeah, I knew it was different in Europe. Y'all get more engine options too, right?

I have one question: you have to order cupholders? I know my old VW didn't have any (I had to wedge cups b/t the seats and the E-brake), but it was a 1988 model.

Originally Posted by ipp

Here are the engines available in Europe, sorry it's in Swedish but I think you'll understand, The E250CGI is actually only a 1.8 litre engine, very efficient and pretty fast too (0-100 in 7.8s):

Bensin:
E 200 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY Sedan 4 Cylindrar 135 kW Manuell växellåda, 6-växlad 356 900 SEK
E 250 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY Sedan 4 Cylindrar 150 kW Automatväxellåda, 5 växlad 386 900 SEK
E 350 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY Sedan V6 Cylindrar 215 kW Automatväxellåda, 7G-Tronic 485 900 SEK
E 350 4MATIC Sedan V6 Cylindrar 200 kW Automatväxellåda, 7G-Tronic 502 900 SEK
E 500 Sedan V8 Cylindrar 285 kW Automatväxellåda, 7G-Tronic 618 900 SEK
E 500 4MATIC Sedan V8 Cylindrar 285 kW Automatväxellåda, 7G-Tronic 644 900 SEK
E 63 AMG Sedan V8 Cylindrar 386 kW Automatväxellåda, 7G-Tronic 985 900 SEK

Diesel:
E 200 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY Sedan 4 Cylindrar 100 kW Manuell växellåda, 6-växlad 346 900 SEK
E 220 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY Sedan 4 Cylindrar 125 kW Manuell växellåda, 6-växlad 366 900 SEK
E 250 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY Sedan 4 Cylindrar 150 kW Manuell växellåda, 6-växlad 401 900 SEK
E 350 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY Sedan V6 Cylindrar 170 kW Automatväxellåda, 7G-Tronic 471 900 SEK
E 350 BlueTec Sedan V6 Cylindrar 155 kW Automatväxellåda, 7G-Tronic 482 900 SEK
E 350 CDI 4MATIC BlueEFFICIENCY Sedan V6 Cylindrar 170 kW Automatväxellåda, 7G-Tronic 497 900 SEK

Originally Posted by aeggroup

Am I stupid or what?
Can somebody explain to me - why Europeans have so many options and we just suck this 6 cylinder gasoline D**k ????

Originally Posted by ipp

That is what we in Europe call the Elegance version, and it comes with 16" wheels. We also have the Classic and Avantgarde version. Classic is the base version, which looks horrible. With all of these versions you can add the AMG-package, which is similar to your Sport+Wheels.

Originally Posted by 220S

I believe Gaazmon was talking about dual mufflers and not dual tips.

Originally Posted by Rowrbazzle

The AMG package is NOT standard on the E. There are Sport and Luxury versions. Surely you know this. You can add the Wheel package to the Sport, which has AMG wheels and a 3-spoke steering wheel. The E may have a natural sport styling to it (even in the Luxury), but it's not stock with an AMG package. You've told me that the old AMG packages pretty much made the car identical to an actual AMG. Look at a 350Sport and an E63 and clearly they are versions of the same model, but they don't look identical to me. So even though many E's will be Sports and look sporty, if one wants the car to look just like the AMG one must actually buy the AMG. If you want exclusive-ish-ness (new word!), then buy an AMG. Or an SLR. haha

All that being said, even if the AMG package (or a version of it) was standard I fail to see how that would be a bad thing. If the AMG package makes the car look better, then it's a win for consumers that they don't have to fork over another $5,000 for it. If you have to pay more to get the same effect in the BMW, then the Mercedes is a better value. Again, if you want to be exclusive, then there are plenty of exclusive Mercedes available along with a host of smaller manufacturers. Or you could move away from California to a place where every other person isn't driving a luxury vehicle.

Originally Posted by gaazmon

ya, exactly, dual tips (one on each side, not just on one side). I think the just one side look is sssooooooo lame. Idk why, but it really bothers me, lol.

Originally Posted by Boulder GT3

I saw the new 5. Well, I saw the front 2/3rds. I didn't like the front of it. The kidney grills have turned into a bit of a pig snout. It's like the new 7 only the kidneys look more pronounced because the car is a bit narrower if that makes sense. I'm sure there is a function or regulation issue guiding that design because it looks like it has to be that way. I'll be in the minority but I like front of the previous 7 and the current 5 better than the new models.

I owned an early 745 which drove great but had more false alarms than chicken little. Then I had a first year E46M3 with the rod issue. I'd hold the enthusiasm for at least one model year on any new BMW. Benz isn't great in the first year either.

To me, it's a coin flip between Benz and BMW. I don't understand why people get so lathered up about it. I really don't understand why people come on a 212 forum to pee in an owners cereal about how something else is cooler. Now that's a loser trait.

Originally Posted by Boulder GT3

I saw the new 5. Well, I saw the front 2/3rds. I didn't like the front of it. The kidney grills have turned into a bit of a pig snout. It's like the new 7 only the kidneys look more pronounced because the car is a bit narrower if that makes sense. I'm sure there is a function or regulation issue guiding that design because it looks like it has to be that way. I'll be in the minority but I like front of the previous 7 and the current 5 better than the new models.

I owned an early 745 which drove great but had more false alarms than chicken little. Then I had a first year E46M3 with the rod issue. I'd hold the enthusiasm for at least one model year on any new BMW. Benz isn't great in the first year either.

To me, it's a coin flip between Benz and BMW. I don't understand why people get so lathered up about it. I really don't understand why people come on a 212 forum to pee in an owners cereal about how something else is cooler. Now that's a loser trait.

Originally Posted by 220S

I agree. The kidneys are way too big. And the nose looks flat. Maybe with the M bumper it'll look better, who knows.

That said, the performance will be the important thing for me. But I'm still a bit nervous about two turbos sitting right in the valley like that. Heat has got to be an engineering issue. There's not a lot of space in the bay and they are going to have to park some big intercoolers somewhere in there.

But after it's out for a few years, I'm probably going back to BMW.

And you're right, never buy a first year model. I normally wait either two years or the first facelift. MB, Audi, and BMW seem to be a disaster for the first run. Look at all those HPFP failures in the BMW IL6 turbos.

Originally Posted by Boulder GT3

I don't care what the BMW rep says, twin turbos and the associated plumbing is a tough trick. It's not like Porsche that had a racing program they had used for development when they came out with tt offerings. High pressure fuel pumps, iDrive, SMG, major bus issues, rod bearings in a high rev engine. All problems that whisper "danger Will Robinson" regarding the new offering.

Originally Posted by K-A

Oh, and also, M-B might be the better "value" here, but when I buy these cars, I'm after cool factor as well

Originally Posted by K-A

Having cars on the road that all look alike also makes them less classy IMO, like seeing billions of identical Camry's on the road.

My gripe is, basically the AMG Package means nothing anymore, and even if I did like the W212, I couldn't buy one because although I don't mind owning a popular car, I need it to look at least a little "special" or unique from its sister models off the showroom floor.

Your last line is true though, in Cali it's a problem, I'm sure it's definitely not as big an issue in many other places.

Oh, and also, M-B might be the better "value" here, but when I buy these cars, I'm after cool factor as well, being an enthusiast, and there's nothing cool about every W212 looking identical with AMG Packages if you also own one, just makes it simply "normal", BMW is still keeping enthusiasts happy by keeping the M-Sport Package exclusive.

Originally Posted by Boulder GT3

I bet everybody's dick gets hard when they see the unique Malibu. "which rental car company did you use".....

There are about a jillion of any of these cars on the road. Buy what you like or be a slave to being "cool".

Originally Posted by K-A

Classy. Don't be mad the Malibu for looking almost as good as the new E for less than half the money!

Honestly, if you guys can get past the sensitivity here, you'd understand I'm making a good point. Just wait a few years when every 212 driven by grandmas (not a diss to the 212, just the historic clientele for these cars) has an AMG Pack, you'll know what I'm talking about

Originally Posted by Boulder GT3

Sensitivity? I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee most days. I just don't try to convince myself it's almost as good as something else. Glad the Malibu cool factor works for you.

I chuckle when you quote all the nuances of the specs and make sweeping statements about performance. Are you qualified to make those statements based on actual application on the track or is it news stand jockey stuff. Have you spent time at the limit with any car to know what that means?

As far as class, your continual trashing the enjoyment of a car that many want to have pleasure around is a very low class maneuver.

Originally Posted by K-A

And yes, I used to drag race cars all the time, and am well aware of the dynamics of automobile performance. Just 'cause I haven't taken cars on twisty tracks doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by Boulder GT3

You're a poseur with limited experience and a profound need to talk again and again.

At the limit on a road race course and a 1/4 or 1/8 are very differant things. Drag racing isn't the ticket to have credibility around handling.