220S

?

K-A

Are you kidding me?

Looks like it's time for M-B USA to supply you with a new car or it's "hello BMW".

Funny how with the bad stigma garnered by GM, I'll bet your "'Lade" has been 100 times more reliable than your Benz, with all the extra time and mileage its accumulated as well.

ghostrdr

two thoughts:

I think there are two batteries, one to start the car and one for the other do-hickeys, so it is possible that you have a battery related issue (like a short somewhere or something).

In California at least, the lemon law is three fixes of the same problem within a year. It looks like you have two reported incidents so far. Take it back, if they fail to fix it again, you've got three. Once more and MB should be willing to buy the car back from you (minus the mileage from the time you drove it off the lot and your first reported incident), and apply it to another vehicle (that S550, perhaps?)

emilner

My wife and I have owned a new '98 Tahoe, '02 Envoy, '03 Avalanche, '05 Escalade EXT, '05 GMC Denali, and the '08 ESV. Aside from one very minor hickup on the envoy that was fixed in one day there has not been one single issue with any one of the trucks. NOTHING (other than user errors, such as when my son thought the cd player was a coin holder and even that was covered under warranty!!). GM trucks are the most reliable vehicles on the planet...

Nontheless the car is going back; I'm not looking forward to battling MB on this one...

Green E-300 DT

It doesn't have to be within the first year.

"Can I have a claim under the California Lemon Law if my repair visits did
not occur within the vehicle’s first 18 months and 18,000 miles of use?

Yes, the California Lemon Law does not require that the repair
visits occur within the first 18 months or 18,000 miles of use.
If your repair visits occurred within the warranty period, you will be afforded the protections of the California Lemon Law. Largely due to the misrepresentations of the automobile manufacturers and car dealerships, there has been much confusion surrounding a provision of the CA Lemon Law called the Tanner Consumer Protection Act. As such, many consumers are left with the mistaken impression that they have no remedy under the California Lemon Law unless their repair visits occurred within the vehicle’s first 18 months or 18,000 miles of use. The truth is that you may have a very strong California Lemon Law claim even if your problems occurred well after 18 months and 18,000 miles."

MBZ is playing hard ball lately, and won't simply 'take it back' without being forced to!
According to my Lemon Law attorney, MBZ is one of the most difficult manufactures.
The only way MBZ will be forced to 'take it back' or buy it back (at the owners' option) in
Kallieforneia is for the owner to file under Song-Beverly, the California Lemon Law statute.
If he were to do this, the owner certainly does not want that same 'S' car back again!

A friend of mine recently took delivery of a new 2010 E-350 Luxury
sedan (not the Sport model) and is upset with the terrible ride.
He called MBZ at their New Jersey location and spoke to several people and all of them
were rude and stated that they would not do anything about his complaint of a
poor ride and that everything had to be handled at the dealership level.
In other words, it was up to the selling dealer if anything was going to be done.
Of course, the dealer would not take the car back, so where does that leave my friend?

Once they have your money, even when you've bought a Benz,
you are really out in the cold and on your own so to speak.

K-A

Yikes, good luck on that one! That's really too bad though.

Yeah, GM Trucks are super reliable, can't deny that. When I bought my Malibu for the task of taking it on weekly 500+ Mile or so work related trips, everyone told me "why the heck don't you just take your Benz", etc. Aside from liking to keep my car in good shape, I said no way in hell am I driving a Benz that many miles (might as well open my wallet and throw the money out), and honestly, through my experiences thus far, trusted an economically intended GM car more-so than most anything to just beat the crap out of.

I've had my Benz for almost a year and a half, and have put about 6K Miles on it, had my Malibu for 6 months, and have put about 12K Miles on it, not to say the Malibu hasn't had a few little Warranty niggles itself, but guess which one has been to the Dealer less?

Boulder GT3

First, I would say that I was in MB service last week and an advisor that is pretty straight with me said they are having few problems with the 212. Much better than some others. That said, you've got a stinker and I'd want it replaced too.

Give them one last chance to return it. Put it in writing and copy the dealer, MBUSA and the zone manager. State that you've been patient but are done. If they don't satisfy the request in 48 hours park it in front of the dealer with signs on the windows shouting lemon and other nasty things. the dealer may understand poisoning the well better than reason. Sad but true.

I really don't think MB, BMW or Porsche has any better service than Honda or Toyota. They'll only act if it negatively impacts their business.

Bummer on the problems. I'd dump it too.

MBNUT1

I guess for me the only question would be is whether the real issue is with the car or the service department. It seems that the you still have a problem that just hasn't been properly diagnosed. Do what you want but I would be inclined to get to the heart of this particular problem and base my decision on whether to keep that car on the root cause of it.

vapers

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but are you close to any other dealers? Maybe the service people at your particular dealership are not the best.

kl07rph

Any good news emilner? As everyone else here, I hope your issues, whether the problem is repaired or buyback, are resolved soon!

rs1985

i notice the pano roof usually rattles
like my family got an A3 and I drive a C
and both of them have the issue

emilner

The car goes in Monday, I did not want to loose it for Christmas. Will let you know next week...

bugatti

Good luck on this. I just got an E550 myself and hope they can find the fix for you.

kl07rph

Goodluck too emilner...Happy Holidays

Jorg

When I read Emilner's report, I know I did make the very same assumption that a new model is an improvement over the outgoing model and that was a mistake. I ordered my car almost sight unseen and that was another mistake, even sold me 211 at a discount to get the new E-Class, another mistake, ordered the rear view camera without test driving it, again I assumed it was as good or better than on the S-Class, big mistake. Even in rainy condition it gets dirty very quickly. The new body sucks in the dirt behind the car. The ipod connection is plain stupid, but if you want to see an even worse solution look at the new C-Class. It's crazy. The rear seat headrest no longer fold down. The cheap document pouch, should have kept the old leather pouch. Then I never thought that items standard on an old model, would be deleted on a the new model.

All in all I made a stupid decision to buy the two new cars without giving it much thought and now I have to live with it.

All I can say I would like to have my two older models back in my garage, yes I lost the garage door memory too.

I guess we all learn from our mistakes and I had to promise my wife that I will give it more thought, buying another MB car. The next time around, I want to know, in advance, which items are deleted form the old model, which are changed, like the sound system and which items are new. Then I can decide if the deleted items are important, the cheaper changes are acceptable and the new items are working and then I make a purchase decision.

All in all, this was a very unpleasant experience and now I have to live with it, I have nobody to blame but myself.

Jorg

K-A

Ouch, sorry to hear about that.

One thing about the 212 is, with all the advancements, M-B built the car flat broke (read up on their current financial situations), and they did drop the price a lot. I know I can point out the cost cut and downgraded little areas here and there, but they better hope for their sakes, the overall machine is gonna be reliable in general.

220S

Buying the first of a new model is always a gamble. Like buying a new version of software, the bugs need to be found and it's commonly the buyers of the new version that act as our guinea pigs despite the number of beta releases.

I normally only buy tried and true and versions that have been out for a while. For me, perhaps a W212 or F10 after they have been out a few years and/or after the first facelift. I do the same with computers, cameras, any new technology. But that's just me.

There will always be electronic and mechanical glitches on a new model. Look at MBs history. It's not just the W212 but pretty much all first year models. And after a year or two, the new model gets the bugs fixed and things that didn't seem to work well for the consumer get changed (MB does listen to consumer complaints.)

Beyond body design, I found that the W212 is not that radically a different car than the outgoing 2009 W211. And I'd be surprised if there were truly that many "new model" issues.

I'm surprised that the rear headrests don't drop. Are you sure you aren't overlooking that feature? Unless visibility is so good that it's just no longer necessary

fwiw, the rear of my 2009 W211 also gets dirty. It's the nature of the design; the slippery shape causes dirt to sweep over the car and collect at the rear. This is common in just about all good aerodynamically designed cars. And all rear view cameras can get dirty, too.

In respect to the ipod connection, etc., just wait another year or two and the W212 will be totally revamped. Daimler has announced a whole new COMAND and Nav system that they have finished beta testing. And there will be completely new engines available. The current W212 is simply a hold over model to get the new body design out to the public. The car will have a lot more to offer in a few years.

Daimler AG is a publicly held company and needs to show profit to shareholders. With the MSRP price reduction to introduce and sell the new W212, cuts in production costs are inevitable and you will see the cost cutting in the product. In relation to economies of scale, a cheaper document pouch in a large production run is a big $$ savings. Using existing parts from the C platform is another huge savings and more profit for Daimler. Perhaps unfortunate for the consumer, but inevitable. It happens everywhere.

Auto engineering and marketing/profitability is an ongoing thing. But the difference today is the economy, stiffer regulations, and the way people are seeing car ownership now.

Cars tend to be a lot more disposable today then they were in the past. I wish we could all drive a "tank-like build quality and engineered to last forever" innovative Mercedes Benz but with today's technology.

petee1997

Any problem occuring on the W212 would happen on the W211 because there is nothing new on this car except the chassis rigidity and body. The remainder of the car is all carry over from the previous model. As far as using C parts, nothing new there. The propulsion systems have always been the same from one model to another. There has always been a difference in interiors and that still exists. I don't think the cost of materials has gone down, however MB may be a more efficient manufacturer with many concessions from the unions. The next w212 with a new generation of engines will certainly be a bigger gamble than this car.
I must say this MB has been trouble free since I got it.(4 months) That is certainly better than the last nine MBs my wife and I have owned since 1997. The cars prior to 1997 were not as compex and relatively trouble free in my experience.
As far as pricing is concerned, we have seen a $12,000.00 price reduction in Canada when you consider the additional standard content and price reduction. Granted some of this was due to our currency gains. All in all this car is a bargain. Anyone buying a mid level premium car must consider this car for value if not for design.

220S

That's right, as I mentioned in my above post, the majority of the components are identical. I think that any issues new owners are having are sample specific.

+1. I'd wait a year or two on them. Although I did read that MB will probably use the existing 5.5 motors and the 3.5 V6s and simply boost them with the TTs and add DI. Daimler hasn't had a lot of excess cash lately for R+D for any radically new motors. Plus the 5.5 is pretty durable as it is.

K-A

Actually, technically the car does share more parts than any E ever has, with the C. The C's interior and materials always leave a bad taste in my mouth, so the new E using many of them is definitely some of the areas where I see downgraded. However, that is obviously another way they are able to drop the price of the car down.

You're right, the car is a bargain, I looked at models in the Autotrader and you can get a W212 with under 5K miles for mid-40's right now. Some with under 1K Miles are right at or under $50K. That's a ton of car for the money. IMO, if I was in the market for one of these, IF M-B doesn't further refine or enhance the car in other areas (than engine) come '11, I'd be all over a '10 E550, as they will be incredible bargains once the new MY's start rolling out, along with that, since I (usually) like to keep my cars for a long time, I feel good with an N/A motor, and you can't beat the sound of a non boosted, big, harmonic, N/A V8.

Also to note, you can get an E-Coupe for LOW $40's right now, practically brand new. I thought they were supposed to be more expensive?

Rowrbazzle

K-A

C'mon don't be so sensitive. Nothing wrong with pointing out facts when in the proper context (i.e the convo in this Thread), or debating various aspects of cars. Seems too many people get upset if they hear someone say the new car uses anything worse than the last car, which in real life, unfortunately, isn't all true at all. If I owned a 212 I'd still acknowledge those areas.

I can point out the many areas that are improved too. I can point out areas of the 211 I don't like, etc. etc.

.... For example, I hate the way my door sounds when I shut it and the window is down, sounds like a slappy flex-fest.

See

petee1997

+1. I'd wait a year or two on them. Although I did read that MB will probably use the existing 5.5 motors and the 3.5 V6s and simply boost them with the TTs and add DI. Daimler hasn't had a lot of excess cash lately for R+D for any radically new motors. Plus the 5.5 is pretty durable as it is.[/quote]


I agree, however if there is a problem it won't be with the engine, it will be with fuel delivery and the tt. It certainly was a problem for BMW, at least on the 2007 model.

Jorg

Everybody has a different approach and they get the car, they feel is the best solution for them. That is the fun part. Some people buy, others lease, some buy new cars, some purchased pre-owned cars. There is no perfect way to do it or everybody would adopt that approach.

If you don't have an E-Class and look for one, these are bargains now, I agree, but if you own an E-Class and trade it in frequently and the new model price drops by $ 12,000.00, guess what, the price of you trade in just dropped $ 15,000.00 so the price difference you pay is the same as prior to the price drop.

The mistake I made was that I assumed the new E-Class would be a big improvement of the older model and I was willing to pay for it, yet I found out that the improvement, other than the styling, is non-existent and with hind sight I would have kept my 211 E-Class.

If I were in the market today, I would definitely buy a mint condition 211 at a bargain price.

Mercedes-Benz knows marketing like no other manufacturer and they apply their skills very well. The biggest event was the new E-Class Coupe. You take a C-Class, change the name from C-Class Coupe to E-Class Coupe and charge an extra 15,000.00. I had one on order, took one look and passed on the order. I was surprised how quickly the people saw the gimmick and immediately the car was standing in the showrooms. That they did not make the 4Matic available here was the straw that broke the camel's back.

What this experience has taught me is that when I get in the mood of buying a new car, I will be much more diligent to check out what the existing car has, what the difference to the new model is and if the upgrade is an improvement.

*************

Mercedes-Benz owns now many dealerships here and previously I was working with one person, who handled the whole transaction. Now, the transaction is broken down into, new car, pre-owned car, options up selling, financial and delivery. So nobody is real interested in the deal any longer, it's a team approach.

On delivery, they had one real concern, to instruct me, how to complete the Customer Satisfaction Report. They made sure that I was aware that only the best score was acceptable. I wish they would have spent a little more time to make sure the car was in perfect condition. I think these reports are a joke and absolutely useless.

Jorg

220S

Good post. In the end it's simply about moving the product. Cars are a commodity and as consumers we have to know to step around the hype, the marketing, the emotion and the mythology.

It's easy to get swept up in all the marketing and the media. And MB knows that.

p.s., I once received a questionnaire from MB that asked the question, "How does owning a Mercedes make you feel?"

Well, MB, here's your answer: Owning the car makes me feel a lot lighter in my bank account and asking me that question made me feel like a fool.