mm9351

Just to clarify, the rear-mounted headrests in the W212 have a drop down switch on the dash. Take another look in the center cluster...

Jorg

I did see the button and pushed it and nothing happened. I thought it was not working at first. I read the manual again and found out that if a rear passenger raises the head rest and you drive the next day, lets say, then that button lowers the rear head rest, vertically ( Down Only) but it still obstructs the rear view, while in the previous model, the headrests would fold back and are completely out of the way.

I did notice too that if you release the rear folding seat, the front seat moves forward and that is how it makes room for the still attached head rest.

If you would give me the choice, I would prefer the older system that gives me a unobstructed rear view. It may be a cheaper solution, but not an improvement, IMO.

Jorg

Helmar

Very worrisome!

The lease on my Lexus LS600hL is up in August and I'm seriously considering the E550 AllMatic (I don't need the extra room of the LS anymore). It's pretty much between the E550, or buying the LS600hL out of the lease, although I have yet to test drive an E550.

There's much I like about the E550 (I love the gadgets!), but the problems reported are of great concern.

Is this still an issue, or can I expect that many of these issues will be resolved by August?

Reliability has always been a strong point on the Lexus (I've never had any of my 3 LS's in the shop for anything other than normal maintenance and one flat tire). I'd heard that MB has resolved their reliability issues, but this post gives me pause....Can I expect that my 3 year old Lexus will have less problems over the next 3 years than a new E550?

Any opinions would be welcome.

HBH

ipp

Which is very handy! In combination with that they have also moved the handle for releasing the folding rear seat to the D-pillar (wagon) it's now very easy to transform the car into a transport van.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhLwpVrZpHc Look at 0:12

Rowrbazzle

I was just pointing out the inconsistencies in your posts. Don't be so sensitive.

On second thought, it probably isn't inconsistent, as you only said you don't feel like complaining about the car AS MUCH. Given your previous level, this desire might still be quite high. haha

DHI

Helmar,

I don't know how many members the w212 forum has exactly, but several have chimed into this thread with sympathy to Emilner's situation rather than corroborating it.

If EARLY reliability issues were rampant it would be safe to assume that this thread would be heavily populated with w212 owners posting their own grievances, and that does not appear to be the case.

Needing a car in August puts you in a good position to better assess ts reliability.

With that said, you may be caught re-evaluating the situation in 2010 as MB intends offering new drive trains in late 2010.

220S

Yeah, Helmar, don't only go by things you read on car forums. And anyway what's posted on forums is not a statistical method of assessing reliability nor indicative of any real problems across the model.

People post with problems and rarely post about having no problems. That's why Michael Karesh (a member here) started his True Delta website.

Emilner's post was the first on this forum of any real problems (and no doubt a sample problem and not a model problem.) Plus his problems are not ones that are inherent to this model (W212) specifically. His particular issues have been experienced on occasion across models, new and old.

I wouldn't let a few posts on a car forum be the basis of your decision to not enter into MB ownership. But, no, they are not a Lexus in terms of maintenance and reliability. But they can be reliable if you are willing to maintain them (it's just a different philosophy with Euro cars.)

And they aren't a Lexus in terms of performance and driving characteristics either. Which is why we own MBs instead of Toyotas.

petee1997

Tsk, tsk,Tsk 220S, a Toyota!!!

K-A

EXACTLY! I made sure to say "as much". But no, it isn't as high, when it comes up, is appropriate, etc. sure sometimes, but not gonna jump in every Thread and bring it up.

gaazmon

lol, I don't think you can consider the LS a toyota. That is pure 100% Lexus. That is the one car Lexus has made right from the start. That was the car the entire company was riding on when it first came into existence.

Not many problems on the LS600hL? That's good to hear as I was worried about the quality in that car when they first announced it. v8 hybrid with v12 performance... made me itch a little at first, but it's a damn sexy car.

The LS is the only Lexus I would buy. It's one plush car. I was never a fan of any other one. IS is overpriced, ES looks just like a camry, GS is too soft, I'm not an SUV fan (except for a yukon).

I guess if the Lexus is a Toyota, then all of us with pre-2007 MBs drive a Chrysler

About the engines, I doubt the 5.5L will be TTed. Maybe for the AMGs but for the base V8's, they should use like the 5.0L V8 in the 500's. The 350's will be DI as that is what is currently being put out for other models and regions.

220S

Well, I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about Lexus. Except that the parent company is Toyota. Nothing wrong with that, but they just never interested me as a car. I'm sure that they are great daily drivers with a lot of comfort. I did ride in a friend of a friend's ISF but was not impressed, however. Lexus just seems a bit sterile to me.

Plus the history of MB is interesting and important to me. The era of the Silver Arrows and Auto Union was really something. MB has a real racing and automobile pedigree dating way back. Maybe in another few decades, Toyota will be seen (historically) in the same light.

rieger

Look up Airmatic problems and you will see that this problem has been going on for a fairly long time and MB hasn't done anything really to fix it. If you are going to buy an MB I would advise against it unless you anticipate possible warranty work on it. I definitely wouldn't have it out of warranty though as it costs $1700cdn/shock plus labour if the shock goes. I had 3 of 4 replaced on my w211 only 5years into ownership, but thankfully we had extended warranty.
I would definitely do your homework before purchasing an MB and not take anyones word for it and not forum people telling you that people on forums complain more etc. If the car had little problems than you will have people praise the product and not complain but if you have many problems than in reading forums you will see a lot of complaints simple as that.
I have had a E500 and and currently have a GS350. The Lexus is more reliable and drives about 7/10ths of what the E500 drove like. The E500 is more sporty and has better feel compared to the Lexus but the Lexus is qiueter and the engine is smoother. The Lexus is definitely more reliable. If you drive strictly in the city the Lexus GS350 is a better car as you don't have to rev it as much to get the power. The E500 is much better on the highways as the V8 and the gearing is geared much more towards this type of driving than the Lexus which tends to float a little more than the MB on the highway. It is not floaty per se but just a little more than the MB.
I will guarantee that a Lexus new or old is more reliable than a MB any day.

K-A

The history of M-B is huge to me. Admittedly it's what keeps me with the brand more-so than anything. If a Benz was a new company, and I couldn't trace design elements to my favorite Classic models, I doubt I'd find some models in the line to be as attractive as I do. As well, that trust, Safety knowledge, etc. etc. "Benz = Money" stuff doesn't matter to me, however the respect the brand gets, and the word "Mercedes-Benz" gets, due to the cachet it's earned through the decades through its automotive accomplishments, definitely does. Why does everyone think I cry like a little baby every time they release a new model that I don't like? ^^

gaazmon

+1, history is important. However, I must admit the LS is a nice car. Never was a fan of any other Lexus. I especially liked the facelifted version of the previous gen LS.

Jorg

I have owned many MB cars in the past and often friends ask me about the MB Service Department. I had to say: Sorry, I know nothing about their service department, because I never had to bring my car in for service or a repair.

As you know, if you have a new computer installation, you know it takes a while, until everything runs smoothly. Most complaints are related to the command system and it must be very complicated and there is lots of room for errors.

Since we have a very fine service department here, I know that I will be taken care off, should I have an issue. They are great.

When I make a critical complaint than it is because, ideally I think the car should be perfect, but I do realize that these are complicated machines and issues will arise and I know they will look after me and stand behind their product, what more can you ask for?

If I knew of a better car, I would not own all the Mercedes-Benz automobiles.

One thing always amazes me, I find the purchase experience and the delivery the least fun part of the Mercedes-Benz ownership experience. It's a long time, since the delivery of a new MB automobile was an uplifting experience, but once I own the car, I start to enjoy the car and detect here and there nice ideas and improvements.

I still own an S-Class sedan and I never had a single issue with that car, not one. It took me a long time to find all the wonderful things that car can do. I have pointed out to other S-Class owners items, their car can do that they didn't even know that they had that feature.

If you asked me, I would break the delivery into two or three sessions, one is paper work, one is about driving the car and one is about the command system. They could even have a video that they give you to watch, before you pick the car up, that would take a lot of stress out of the delivery experience.

Jorg

petee1997

The dealership where I purchased my car have a dedicated person to do the delivery. Once the business details are done, he basically gives you a complete tutorial on the car. This guy is available for all future inquiries but they strongly recommend that you read the manual before returning. I found a manual on line before delivery and that helped a great deal with my indoctrination. Many of these cars are owned by an older client base who are not willing or capable to learn the complexities of all the features. The business manager told me they get cars on trade where the owners manual was never cracked open. Go figure..

petee1997

At the risk of really dating myself, my first new MB was a 1984 380SL. The only power equipment was power windows, steering and brakes. Delivery took five minutes. They collected the money, gave me the keys and showed me where the car was parked. Warranty was simple to explain, 12 months or 20,000KMS and not a day more. The corner gas station could do the maintenance.

PS I hope 220S doesn't see this post. He already refers to me as Pops. Who knows, he may think I bought this car when I was in high school.

emilner

2nd day at the dealer, they still don't know what is wrong. Oh well, at least I'm putting mileage on their car....

vicv

I'm new to this forum, but not new to MB.

You earlier mentioned a thud in your trunk. Could be the rear headrests rock when you go over bumps and make that noise when stowed. My wife's 04 E-320 did that.

We liked her E so much that we ordered a 2010 E350 for European Delivery last month. The trip was fantastic and the delivery process wonderful. And, of course, it was a gas to drive the car in it's country of origin. Just for yuks, we dropped by a German MB dealer to get a brochure. And that's when I got hacked off. The European versions of the E350 and 550 have direct injection. It seems that the decision makers in Sindelfingen don't think enough of us Americans and Canadians to provide us the latest technology; technology that is available even on Buicks. If we had known that MB was giving us Americans dated technology when the latest is available elsewhere, we'd have picked up my wife's new car in Munich, not Sindelfingen. Those inline sixes have it.

BTW, I talked with a MBUSA rep about it and was told they'd dropped the prices, so I shouldn't be too disappointed. Gee, you'd think the folks in New Jersey would also be a tad miffed with Sindelfingen on this one.

mvpjeffmvp

I'm a little lost with all the reference to New Jersey in the posts I've been reading?

Minuteman

Same thing happened to my mom's S500 back in 2001, something to do w/ the suspension. After taking the car on a biweekly basis for a solid 6 months, the car was finally declared a lemon.

220S

DI will be here next year (and twin turbos.) I'm guessing the DI wasn't available right away due to EPA regs, export certification, etc..

220S

MBUSA is located in New Jersey.

gaazmon

+1

vicv

You may be right, but MB touts itself as having the very latest in technology, they presently have it (DI) in European E's and so many other manufacturers already have it here in the US & Canada that there can't be too much of an excuse for MB not having it available in our market.

And, I'm not dissing the car itself. It was a wonderful ride for the time we had it in Europe and I recommend the European delivery experience if you have the time. Also, allow time for deliver here. We turned the car in in Sindelfingen on Nov 11 and still don't have it here. It's been in Jacksonville since Dec 11. (Maybe that's another area MB could work on.)