not really, the interior materials in both are middle of the road. Any difference is so small as to be essentially immaterial. Some touches here and there may be nicer on the 211 and vice versa.

You like what you have. Thats fine. You've clearly made the point you were working on about a dozen times.

 

Agreed and not agreed. If you think the materials in an E-Class on a grand-scale are "middle of the road" you've been spoiled in some really nice cars. Far more cars have far worse interiors than any E-Class than cars do better, this is a fact. I'm a realist, so I don't think of my E-Class as Phantom-esque in Luxury, but I do think it has one of the most elegant interiors out there, save for the big dogs.

I can point out tons of areas where the materials differ in a 211 and 212. Sure might not be a big deal to many, but this is an enthusiasts Board, and it's an M-B Board, so unlike the Mustang Forums where people will argue .1 tenth of a second and 1 MPH in the 1/4 Mile endlessly, interior materials will be a topic of interest.

Very cool, that '03 is a bad boy. Good choice in keeping it. Great thing about Mustangs is they're timeless, and there will always be a strong enthusiasm surrounding each generation, especially something as game-changing as the '03 Cobra.

Yeah, I always liked the classy look of the 211 and that design approach by M-B. The 212 goes into a far more aggressive approach. No doubt M-B will be attracting many different buyers with this one. I'll bet the Benz and Cobra look very cool sitting side by side, 2 cubist, aggressively lined cars.

 

That's because it had the 8k (USD) performance option. You can only get Alcantara that way now (it used to be standard on all E63 AMGs) Now the C Class headliner is what they are using as standard. I'm sure that saved a lot of money over the production run.

 

The interior is really important for me because I sit in the car every day and have to live with it. I really like the interior of my W211 because it feels like a Mercedes and there are no rattles, no squeaks and everything "just works" and is at my fingertips at all time. Some say that its old in the tooth and out dated but for me it just works.

The interior of the W212 is best experienced in person. I hated it in pictures but when I sat in one its not as cheap as in the photos. In my opinion its not the interior that a MB should have but it's defiantly not as cheap and it looks in the brochure or pictures on the web.

I also like the interior of the new 5 series. It's light years ahead of the current 5 series. I haven't seen one in person yet but the from the pictures the interior seems very nice and warm to me. I get almost the same welcoming feeling from it that I used to get from MB interiors. There's a new 5 series GT parked down the street from me and its interior looks pretty descent (I think the new 5 will use the same interior). My only issue with BMW is the quality of the materials they use. The boys and girls at the Edmunds Long Term Blog currently have an M3 and its interior is falling apart already and the car has less than 15,000 miles on it (http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...g-its-age.html). The wear on all my MB interiors have been pretty good. I never had to replace any MB-Tex or Leather in the car and there was only one instance I had a squeak in the car but my SA took care of that for me. I just hope that the W212's interior will continue to withstand time and abuse just as much as the W211's.

 

That may very well be true, but you really must hate your money to take the punishing depreciation of the S600.

 

Every time I see an S600 driving I swear I can see $100 bills flying out the tailpipes.

 

A couple weeks a go, I bought a new E350 P2, and before this, I had a 2007 E350 P2. In my opinion, here are the pro's and con's compared to the old one,

Pros:
-Driver's Assist
-Panoramic moonroof
-The new COMAND
-Voice control
-Standard bluetooth
-Sound system (I think the new one sounds much better)
-Navigation speed and accuracy
-Overall, there are A LOT more features
-And the overall appearance is better, especially from the front and the sides.
-MBRACE and the new iPhone app.
-It automatically parks the transmission when you turn off the car and open the door (it's pretty cool).
-The ride seems to be a lot quieter and more comfortable
-New safety features

Cons (I think I'm gonna have more of these):
-The new one doesn't have side body moldings, so it's more prone to dings and scratches, wtf??
-I don't know if you guys know what I'm talking about, but with the previous models of Mercedes, when you pushed the gas pedal all the way, you would feel a little click at the very bottom, and the car would accelerate real fast. I loved that little click. The new one, is the first MB I've driven that doesn't have it. Very disappointing!
-Keyless Go - With the old one, the starter was right on the gear shifter in the middle (which was real cool, and impressive), but with the new one, it's at the same place as a regular key would be, AND on top of that, if you want to use the regular key, you'll have to (with great difficulty) pull out the cheap looking piece of plastic that covers the ignition hole - definite downgrade.
-The rims. I hate the wheels on my new car. Even though, the old one and the new one both have the sport package. The new wheels one on mine just look crappy.
-I'm not too excited about how the back of the new car looks.
-I don't think I'm too excited about the gear shifter being on the steering wheel either. I think I liked it better when it was in the middle.
-The Sport Mode doesn't stick. Every time you restart the car, it goes back in the Comfort mode, which is dumb.
-You can't operate the navigation while driving anymore (I HATE THIS)
-On the old one, my passenger mirror would tilt down when I backed up, so I could see the curb. Apparently with the new ones, they've discontinued that feature, which I think was a very stupid thing to do.
-With the old one, when you pushed a button, the rear headrests would completely fall back, so you could have a clear view of the rear. With the new one, they only lower down a bit, which again is pretty dumb.
-Ambient lighting on the old one was MUCH nicer.

I think there are a few other things I don't like about the new one, but I'm sure many of these things just take some "getting used to", HOPEFULLY!

 

This is not true. Here is the link and this feature works fine on my car.

http://www4.mercedes-benz.com/manual...html#d13e18506

Look for " Parking position for the exterior mirror on the front-passenger side "

 

Very interesting and thanks for the write-up.

The added quietness and comfort sound really enticing, I love the ride of the 211, but really would love to have that extra mile in isolation and comfort.

A couple interesting things you brought up were the door moldings. I always think of that. The moldings on the prior M-B's were a great "Form=Function" effect. Not only does it usually protect the door from someone opening theirs into it, but it does in case you open yours into something (they will hit first). Not to mention, if you bump something with your rear or front bumpers, only the molding get hit usually. The 212's rear is bare, and the front is VERY prone to high $$ damage, as the grille is fairly flat compared to the 211's, and is very low, so if you hit an SUV, or even regular cars bumper, your grille will probably shatter along with hitting the bumper. About the doors of the 212, the surfaces are also very flat and tight, so dings will stick out like sore thumbs I assume, which is just the nature of the beast.

Also, interesting to hear you like the Ambient Lighting in the 211 better. I love the "Halo" look of it, and have yet to see a 212's in action.

 

Where do u live? Because I heard that option is not available on US cars any more. I have no idea why, but that's what the dealer told me.

 

Don't get me wrong, overall I think the 212 is a better car, but that's expected with a newer model. Back in late 2006 when I got my 211 though, I think it felt more elegant and luxurious than the 212 does right now.

About the bumper, I'm not too sure how well the 212 will perform in an accident (hopefully the Break Assist will prevent that from happening), but the 211 was great. One time, I got into a little accident with a lady driving a Civic, and her bumper was completely ruined. She ended up changing it and it cost around $800. My 211 barely even had a scratch. In fact, at the end of my lease when I returned the car, they didn't even notice it. It was definitely a good bumper.

About the ambient lighting, yeah I think the 211 was better. My 212 doesn't even have the halo thing. Maybe it's because this one has the Panorama roof (I'm not sure, but there is definitely enough room for it). Instead of the halo, this one has a little tiny light bulb all the way in the back, which is supposed to produce the same effect, but if you're sitting in the back, it doesn't. If you lean ur head back in the backseats, it actually bothers ur eye because it's a pretty bright and pointy little light. Other than the halo thing, the interior lighting in the 212 is better, but that halo was a real big plus.

 

The dealer is wrong.

 

Agreed. Yeah, the 211 to me has always been very class and elegance style Luxury, I came from an S500 and was still very impressed with the level of elegance the whole car kind of gave. The 212 doesn't give me the same vibe, but obviously M-B wanted to convey a different outlook with this car, and evoke different emotions, etc.

Yeah, the front bumper especially of the 212 has me curious in terms of fender-bender type of accidents. Like I said, the actual grille slopes and sits very low, and I think the grill, which is flat, with no actual "bumper" before it, literally is at average car's literal *bump*er level. It makes for an aggressive look indeed, but it comes at a price (possibly)!

You're aware of the Ambient Lights in the dash area of the 212 yeah? There should be little strips of light running all along the front dash and door wood (I believe it's under the wood, if not then over it). I'm wondering if either they aren't impressive to you at all, or if you might have them off. The lighting in the 211 actually looks really cool at night (from the buttons, etc. of course with the halo thing), that's pretty cool if the 212's gives a better effect even, aside from the ambient lighting, out of curiosity could you describe how the 212's lights are even more impressive? Never been in one at night actually. Thanks.

 

I live in NY ...got the car one month ago..I'm sure many people will agree - this option works fine...
I recomend you to change your dealer..he has no idea about cars he's selling ))

 

It doesn't work quite the same as the way it did in the W211 (you have to select mirror #2 first then put it in reverse gear.) But it is there; just read your manual. It's all on page 92.

You might soon realize that dealers (salespeople and SAs) don't really know a lot. Ask a tech who has a been there for a while at the dealership and you'll get a much better answer. Or go to an Indy mechanic for answers to your questions.

btw, the last W211 (the 2009 model) has the same COMAND with upgraded Nav, VC, HDD, etc.. But with the added benefit of being able to enter addresses while in motion. Although sans the iDrive style wheel (but VC does everything.)

 

Only the first time (not sure if you were saying otherwise). From then on it's automatic. I can't remember if I actually had to "save" it, but I don't have to select the mirror before reversing to get it to work.

As for the navigation, you can't "type" in addresses while driving, but as 220S said, the Voice Control handles that. However, you can search and select destinations while driving. You can even "type" in the name of the destination (Burger King, Texaco, etc.) while driving. Kind of odd that you can type one, but not the other. Honestly, typing in the destinations is kind of annoying anyway; using the Voice Command is pretty easy.

 

Perhaps you can provide us with some pictures of these differences, because I have spent a week+ in a 211 and 4 days in a 212, and I didn't notice any major differences. Like I said, both were pretty middle of the road, and yes, I'm comparing them to bmw/lexus/audi, etc, not things like corollas.

 

K-A: Just out of curiosity how much time have you spent in the W212? From your posts it sounds like you've practically lived in one for a while. Seriously is it more time than a test drive or what?

 

Don't have pictures but off the top of my head:

Cheaper dash (same as the C-Class), Flimsy A/C Vents, same as C-Class Hard/Cheap/"Sandpaper-y" lining on the A-Pillars and roof lining (W211 uses fuzzy wool-y lining on the A-Pillars, much fancier), plastics around the Radio feel cheaper to me, and lots more of it, with more plain flat plastic area.

Bottom of the doors on the 211 are a classy soft/fuzz material, 212 is hard graty plastic, weather stripping that runs along side the inner door windows on the 212 is a plastic-y/industrial-grade-ish type material (211 uses a classy cloth material), seats on the 212 are all M-B Tex (rubbery) (Pre-F.L 211 uses leather inserts), area next to your hips (under the center console) are all hard plastic, the 211 uses nice carpet, 211 has some chrome lining under the shift gear that I like, 212 is just all uninterupted plastic.

The doors are my worst favorite part, very industrial and not plush, the buttons for the seat controls, etc look none too elegant, and the arm rest area is very hard and rubbery, where's the 211's is much more comfy/pillow-y.

Areas where I like the W212's better, much nicer A/C unit, and much nicer steering wheel leather (Nappa). There might be more but I just wasn't too impressed with it.

Complaints get action, so accuse me of trying to "put down" the car all you want, but these are just cars, I don't get personally miffed by someone stating they like another more than mine, etc. If the interior of the car isn't something I see fit for an E-Class, and a downgrade especially, for my sake at least, and my future with the brand, I'd like them to know someone's paying attention!

Enough.

.... Actually a friend of mine just had one as a "Rental" somehow, so I got to get to know one out of the Dealership/Auto Show boundaries a bit recently.

 

I agree with some parts actually, but I think the C is much worse, don't think it's even comparable with the new E. I will get back with my point of view when I get my car.

 

Oh you're absolutely right, no way am I comparing the 212's interior with the 204's. The 204 has the worst damn interior tha.... Oh don't even get me started.

The 212's IMO shares too many similarities for my own personal tastes. But yeah, I'm a weirdo when it comes to interiors, so I have no problem pointing out the specific areas that I'm talking about when comparing the 211 and 212, so it isn't a "I like the way it looks more so it's better" thing.

We all have our tastes, not everyone likes the elegant and soft-touch vibe in the 211, and some will prefer the harder, more durable feels in the 212. I always appreciated soft and elegant, plush materials in cars, which is why I personally dig the 211's a bit more.

I will say, aside from the unatainable Bentley's and RR's, etc. The new Jag XF is the only modern mid-size that made me get back into my E, and really see it as an overly "Teutonic", overly serious German inside. Most cars nowadays are not really impressing me personally. Also to note again, check out the inside of the new Jag XJ (doesn't look all that big a deal in pictures), very fancy.

OliverK, you mentioned Lexus, I don't know what Lexuses you've experienced but I feel the W211's interior has quite better materials than even the Lexus LS, I've driven in many Lexuses, and am very unimpressed with their materials, even the LS, buttons, etc. are practically standard cheap Japanese fare. GS doesn't hold a candle to the 211 or 212's inside.

BMW's current 5 doesn't compare to the 211's (I was driving one before I bought my E actually) in terms of interior refinement, however the F10 might change that.

Audi uses great materials, and very well put together, down-to-business interiors, I'm not gonna knock 'em one bit, especially the Luxury models. The 211's pleases me more personally however.

Consider it me being "biased" or whatever, but one of the reasons I bought the 211 was because I thought its interior is a marvel. I'll give credit to anything's that I like more than it.

 

I know what you are talking about ! I always thought it was a manufacturing defect in my car(s) but now I know it's not only me. I never had that on my C-Class but both of my E-Classes have it. Anyone know if this has a function or is just a "WOT indicator" for the car ?

 

I've driven the XF and it's nice on the inside but I have a couple of issue with it:

• The ride is a little too harsh for my taste. It rides more like a BMW than a MB
• The iDrive/COMMAND equivalent nav display is too slow for every day operations for me. I like the fact that its touch screen but I could do without the fancy eye candy (sliding menus, etc...) to speed up the operations on the unit.
• The fit and finish is a little below average for my taste. The quality of the materials is nice but its just not put together well. There was a little rattling happening somewhere behind the dash; while not much it was there and audible.

With these in mind I'm going to take a W212 over the XF. I've only seen the XJ on a video and haven't experienced that in person yet but if the price is right it could be a contender for my next car.

 

True. The materials are what really got me, save for maaybe a button here or there. I've heard owners complain about endless rattles, and I don't doubt it isn't screwed together as tightly as an M-B. Also yeah, it's far more tuned as a "BMW catcher" than M-B, i.e more focus on handling.

I was really thinking of getting an XF for a while, but after a few comparo's back to back with my E, I just came to the conclusion that it still didn't take the cake from the 211 for me, plus I don't trust Jag/Tata right now.

If I had to pick a "nicest looking exterior/interior in a Luxury Mid-Size Car for 2010" I'd go with the XF. But yeah, I'd rather own, and would buy a W212 over it, just beats it in a few all-too important categories.

 

I was up in TO today to look again at the inside the W212 E63 (K-A, you are correct in your observations, but I'll save that for posting on the AMG boards where people seem to be a bit more open to critique. )

Anyway the Jag dealer is right next door and I looked at the XKR coupe. Salesperson was very cool and asked if I wanted to take it out. We went for a good long drive and he was nice enough to allow me to go to Decker Canyon and really ream on it (until he got a bit nervous and said, "well, we better turn around and head back." )

My take:

The exterior is gorgeous except that I don't like the chrome side vents nor the hood vents with "Supercharged" stamped on them. But the design is beautiful and very Aston-like. Big fat rear fenders like my 993.

Visibility is actually good even though the thing is radically raked with a small rear window. The beltline is high with a shallow greenhouse and you feel wrapped in the cockpit. Ergonomically it all worked for me. No sunroof which is nice and the interior head space is high (perfect if you're tall.) Seats were very, very comfortable with deep adjustable bolsters.

The Nav had cheesy icons and was not nearly as nice as my E63. Touch screen was, eh. The glowing start button and rising wheel (which is the shifter) is just a bit too weird for me. Also the stalks (wipers, signals, lights, etc.) on the steering wheel were a bit too high for me (could get used to it, though); that was one thing that wasn't quite so ergonomic for me.

The car is very light (all aluminum body) and you could feel it. The chassis was stiffer than an Airmatic MB, but not as stiff as a Porsche or BMW. It actually was a good compromise. Remember this was built as a GT car. And it plays the role quite well (rear seats are pretty much non-existent.)

Steering was not as precise nor had the communicative feel of a Porsche or BMW. Was very close to my E63. And the steering wheel itself was a bit thin and no thumb locks like the AMG. It was nicely wrapped in leather but too wimpy. That was also another non-ergonomic dislike for me.

Supercharger has a lot of low end grunt so you get the torque just putzing around city streets. Power feels very linear for a F/I motor. Torque really throws you back into the seat at around 4k. Paddles shifters are pretty quick but the 6 speed tranny is no better than the AMG Speedshift 7 speed. They need to put in a PDK/MCT type tranny in this car.

Once we were into the canyon, the car really shined. You feel the lighter weight. There's a lot less weight transfer and so you get less understeer. It does have some built in understeer but it's not bad. The car handles very, very nicely.

The best thing is that this car is designed as a GT car and it does the job really well. You can bust the rear end out easy and yet still control it easily. But at the same time you can drive it gently and it's very comfortable (although a bit stiffer than my E63.) It takes choppy roads nicely.

It was really fun to toss it into the corners. It's the kind of car that behaves well and is pretty nice on the inside (leather is quite good and with nice stitching) with all the comfy electronics. You could cruise up to SF very comfortably (providing you have only two people and very little luggage.)

But at the same time you can really run it on the back roads and get a lot out of it. It's not a real sports car but very sports car-like. I was impressed with the handling. The only real issue I have is that the brakes aren't that great. Big rotors but they aren't slotted and/or vented and I'm assuming you could get fade early on. Plus you had to use a fair amount of leg power. The AMG brakes in the E63 are far, far superior.

It's a beautiful body. And a decent GT. Not perfect by any means but I think I could live with one. The shortcomings were not in performance by any means, but in the inside layout and the nav system, steering wheel, etc..

After getting back into my AMG, I realized it's really a better overall performer, (better motor, brakes, and a bit more comfortable overall), but the Jag is not bad. Not bad at all. It's really quite fun to drive. I could live with one.

p.s., interesting interview here with the head designer of Jaguar: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/int...er-ian-callum/