Seeking opinions from W212 owners who were prior W211 owners..
#126
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I was up in TO today to look again at the inside the W212 E63 (K-A, you are correct in your observations, but I'll save that for posting on the AMG boards where people seem to be a bit more open to critique.
)
Anyway the Jag dealer is right next door and I looked at the XKR coupe. Salesperson was very cool and asked if I wanted to take it out. We went for a good long drive and he was nice enough to allow me to go to Decker Canyon and really ream on it (until he got a bit nervous and said, "well, we better turn around and head back."
)
My take:
The exterior is gorgeous except that I don't like the chrome side vents nor the hood vents with "Supercharged" stamped on them. But the design is beautiful and very Aston-like. Big fat rear fenders like my 993.
Visibility is actually good even though the thing is radically raked with a small rear window. The beltline is high with a shallow greenhouse and you feel wrapped in the cockpit. Ergonomically it all worked for me. No sunroof which is nice and the interior head space is high (perfect if you're tall.) Seats were very, very comfortable with deep adjustable bolsters.
The Nav had cheesy icons and was not nearly as nice as my E63. Touch screen was, eh. The glowing start button and rising wheel (which is the shifter) is just a bit too weird for me. Also the stalks (wipers, signals, lights, etc.) on the steering wheel were a bit too high for me (could get used to it, though); that was one thing that wasn't quite so ergonomic for me.
The car is very light (all aluminum body) and you could feel it. The chassis was stiffer than an Airmatic MB, but not as stiff as a Porsche or BMW. It actually was a good compromise. Remember this was built as a GT car. And it plays the role quite well (rear seats are pretty much non-existent.)
Steering was not as precise nor had the communicative feel of a Porsche or BMW. Was very close to my E63. And the steering wheel itself was a bit thin and no thumb locks like the AMG. It was nicely wrapped in leather but too wimpy. That was also another non-ergonomic dislike for me.
Supercharger has a lot of low end grunt so you get the torque just putzing around city streets. Power feels very linear for a F/I motor. Torque really throws you back into the seat at around 4k. Paddles shifters are pretty quick but the 6 speed tranny is no better than the AMG Speedshift 7 speed. They need to put in a PDK/MCT type tranny in this car.
Once we were into the canyon, the car really shined. You feel the lighter weight. There's a lot less weight transfer and so you get less understeer. It does have some built in understeer but it's not bad. The car handles very, very nicely.
The best thing is that this car is designed as a GT car and it does the job really well. You can bust the rear end out easy and yet still control it easily. But at the same time you can drive it gently and it's very comfortable (although a bit stiffer than my E63.) It takes choppy roads nicely.
It was really fun to toss it into the corners. It's the kind of car that behaves well and is pretty nice on the inside (leather is quite good and with nice stitching) with all the comfy electronics. You could cruise up to SF very comfortably (providing you have only two people and very little luggage.)
But at the same time you can really run it on the back roads and get a lot out of it. It's not a real sports car but very sports car-like. I was impressed with the handling. The only real issue I have is that the brakes aren't that great. Big rotors but they aren't slotted and/or vented and I'm assuming you could get fade early on. Plus you had to use a fair amount of leg power. The AMG brakes in the E63 are far, far superior.
It's a beautiful body. And a decent GT. Not perfect by any means but I think I could live with one. The shortcomings were not in performance by any means, but in the inside layout and the nav system, steering wheel, etc..
After getting back into my AMG, I realized it's really a better overall performer, (better motor, brakes, and a bit more comfortable overall), but the Jag is not bad. Not bad at all. It's really quite fun to drive. I could live with one.
p.s., interesting interview here with the head designer of Jaguar: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/int...er-ian-callum/
![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Anyway the Jag dealer is right next door and I looked at the XKR coupe. Salesperson was very cool and asked if I wanted to take it out. We went for a good long drive and he was nice enough to allow me to go to Decker Canyon and really ream on it (until he got a bit nervous and said, "well, we better turn around and head back."
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
My take:
The exterior is gorgeous except that I don't like the chrome side vents nor the hood vents with "Supercharged" stamped on them. But the design is beautiful and very Aston-like. Big fat rear fenders like my 993.
Visibility is actually good even though the thing is radically raked with a small rear window. The beltline is high with a shallow greenhouse and you feel wrapped in the cockpit. Ergonomically it all worked for me. No sunroof which is nice and the interior head space is high (perfect if you're tall.) Seats were very, very comfortable with deep adjustable bolsters.
The Nav had cheesy icons and was not nearly as nice as my E63. Touch screen was, eh. The glowing start button and rising wheel (which is the shifter) is just a bit too weird for me. Also the stalks (wipers, signals, lights, etc.) on the steering wheel were a bit too high for me (could get used to it, though); that was one thing that wasn't quite so ergonomic for me.
The car is very light (all aluminum body) and you could feel it. The chassis was stiffer than an Airmatic MB, but not as stiff as a Porsche or BMW. It actually was a good compromise. Remember this was built as a GT car. And it plays the role quite well (rear seats are pretty much non-existent.)
Steering was not as precise nor had the communicative feel of a Porsche or BMW. Was very close to my E63. And the steering wheel itself was a bit thin and no thumb locks like the AMG. It was nicely wrapped in leather but too wimpy. That was also another non-ergonomic dislike for me.
Supercharger has a lot of low end grunt so you get the torque just putzing around city streets. Power feels very linear for a F/I motor. Torque really throws you back into the seat at around 4k. Paddles shifters are pretty quick but the 6 speed tranny is no better than the AMG Speedshift 7 speed. They need to put in a PDK/MCT type tranny in this car.
Once we were into the canyon, the car really shined. You feel the lighter weight. There's a lot less weight transfer and so you get less understeer. It does have some built in understeer but it's not bad. The car handles very, very nicely.
The best thing is that this car is designed as a GT car and it does the job really well. You can bust the rear end out easy and yet still control it easily. But at the same time you can drive it gently and it's very comfortable (although a bit stiffer than my E63.) It takes choppy roads nicely.
It was really fun to toss it into the corners. It's the kind of car that behaves well and is pretty nice on the inside (leather is quite good and with nice stitching) with all the comfy electronics. You could cruise up to SF very comfortably (providing you have only two people and very little luggage.)
But at the same time you can really run it on the back roads and get a lot out of it. It's not a real sports car but very sports car-like. I was impressed with the handling. The only real issue I have is that the brakes aren't that great. Big rotors but they aren't slotted and/or vented and I'm assuming you could get fade early on. Plus you had to use a fair amount of leg power. The AMG brakes in the E63 are far, far superior.
It's a beautiful body. And a decent GT. Not perfect by any means but I think I could live with one. The shortcomings were not in performance by any means, but in the inside layout and the nav system, steering wheel, etc..
After getting back into my AMG, I realized it's really a better overall performer, (better motor, brakes, and a bit more comfortable overall), but the Jag is not bad. Not bad at all. It's really quite fun to drive. I could live with one.
p.s., interesting interview here with the head designer of Jaguar: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/int...er-ian-callum/
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
About your first part, I know what you mean. I never thought pointing out factual information is "hating", but hey, c'est la vie.
Jag is really making some pretty cars these days. I like Ian Callum, in fact, I like hearing him describe his designs, seems to be a realist. He said specifically about the new Jag XJ, "don't call it beautiful", as he cites, the design approach is meant to be bold, aggressive, modern, etc. but for better or worse, doesn't fit the quintessential definition of "beauty/graceful". I feel that same term goes for many new cars, especially M-B's new ones.
#127
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
Nice, thanks for the review. My Cousin has that Jag (in France), he made fun of me when I told him I own an E-Class.... "What, do you have a family already"
****-hole.
About your first part, I know what you mean. I never thought pointing out factual information is "hating", but hey, c'est la vie.
Jag is really making some pretty cars these days. I like Ian Callum, in fact, I like hearing him describe his designs, seems to be a realist. He said specifically about the new Jag XJ, "don't call it beautiful", as he cites, the design approach is meant to be bold, aggressive, modern, etc. but for better or worse, doesn't fit the quintessential definition of "beauty/graceful". I feel that same term goes for many new cars, especially M-B's new ones.
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
About your first part, I know what you mean. I never thought pointing out factual information is "hating", but hey, c'est la vie.
Jag is really making some pretty cars these days. I like Ian Callum, in fact, I like hearing him describe his designs, seems to be a realist. He said specifically about the new Jag XJ, "don't call it beautiful", as he cites, the design approach is meant to be bold, aggressive, modern, etc. but for better or worse, doesn't fit the quintessential definition of "beauty/graceful". I feel that same term goes for many new cars, especially M-B's new ones.
Jag is in an odd place and it shows. They don't have the big money umbrella of R+D that the majors have, and although TATA has proclaimed to be 100% behind the brand they're facing a more fickle consumer and a new world economics. The tech and performance side needs attention and that's where it falls short.
#128
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Yeah. Unfortunately Jag is a no go for me, due to not having trust in Tata and it's future. Sucks as I like the designs coming from them.
The XJ is alright, not my style, but the inside is much nicer than I though it would be (doesn't look overly impressive in pics). I have my doubts as to how well it will do though.
The XJ is alright, not my style, but the inside is much nicer than I though it would be (doesn't look overly impressive in pics). I have my doubts as to how well it will do though.
#129
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I want to bring this up as it's related to some points a few posts up.
Bumper moldings = LIFE SAVERS!!!!
Not only have I already dinged one of them up a bit, but just today, while my dumbass was positioning my car as close to a wall as possible, to avoid a potential door ding from a crappy Minivan next to me, I scraped my cars side against a hard to see, little sharp edged, steel trash-can.
Getting out I literally was about to lose my mind when I saw the car wedged up against said can, I moved the car forward, and saw a long and deep scrape right on my bumpers right side "boomerang" shaped bumper molding.
All I gotta do is take it in on Monday, and get that little molding re-painted, while they're at it, they're repainting (and giving me a new chrome piece) the other molding I dinged up a while ago.
With a new M-B, you'd have to have the whole bumper repainted! C'mon M-B, seems you've forgotten your old "form = function" motto!!
Bumper moldings = LIFE SAVERS!!!!
Not only have I already dinged one of them up a bit, but just today, while my dumbass was positioning my car as close to a wall as possible, to avoid a potential door ding from a crappy Minivan next to me, I scraped my cars side against a hard to see, little sharp edged, steel trash-can.
Getting out I literally was about to lose my mind when I saw the car wedged up against said can, I moved the car forward, and saw a long and deep scrape right on my bumpers right side "boomerang" shaped bumper molding.
All I gotta do is take it in on Monday, and get that little molding re-painted, while they're at it, they're repainting (and giving me a new chrome piece) the other molding I dinged up a while ago.
With a new M-B, you'd have to have the whole bumper repainted! C'mon M-B, seems you've forgotten your old "form = function" motto!!
#131
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Nope, my W220 had them and they too were life savers. Now I'm just stuck with my sub-par parking instincts. ![Frown](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
I don't think it would matter, unless you had to buy a whole new molding thingy (which shouldn't be much of a different price for the Parktronic or regular one). Fortunately mine just has to be re-painted, and I don't need a new one. Woulda been a nightmare without those things.
![Frown](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
I don't think it would matter, unless you had to buy a whole new molding thingy (which shouldn't be much of a different price for the Parktronic or regular one). Fortunately mine just has to be re-painted, and I don't need a new one. Woulda been a nightmare without those things.
Last edited by K-A; 01-15-2010 at 03:20 AM.
#132
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
sorry to dig up an old thread but since I started it I figured I could! ![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
I wanted to update some on what I decided to do... I was inches from trading in my 2005 E320CDI for a new E class but I just couldn't get over the interior.. and then like a virus, I was infected with the idea of getting a pickup truck... not any old pickup, but a diesel.. I walked out of the dealer and went over to Ford, Dodge and Chevy..took a quick look and then went home did the research... The Chevy looked best, and had the nicest spec's so I went in and with in hours placed an order for a 2500HD with LTZ trip, Duramax engine, Allison transmission and a list of other items... the sticker price was more than what I was going to pay for the E350 by a good margin! I negotiated $1000 off, GM threw in $2000 more and Here I am... A week later I couldn't be happier... 22mpg and just about double the weight and power as my dearly beloved and departed E320 CDI! May she find a nice home and be as well cared for as she was with me!
I miss that Mercedes Star on my hood though!![Frown](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
I wanted to update some on what I decided to do... I was inches from trading in my 2005 E320CDI for a new E class but I just couldn't get over the interior.. and then like a virus, I was infected with the idea of getting a pickup truck... not any old pickup, but a diesel.. I walked out of the dealer and went over to Ford, Dodge and Chevy..took a quick look and then went home did the research... The Chevy looked best, and had the nicest spec's so I went in and with in hours placed an order for a 2500HD with LTZ trip, Duramax engine, Allison transmission and a list of other items... the sticker price was more than what I was going to pay for the E350 by a good margin! I negotiated $1000 off, GM threw in $2000 more and Here I am... A week later I couldn't be happier... 22mpg and just about double the weight and power as my dearly beloved and departed E320 CDI! May she find a nice home and be as well cared for as she was with me!
I miss that Mercedes Star on my hood though!
![Frown](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
![](http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL146/1913657/19332446/392584649.jpg)
#133
Junior Member
212 Better
Owned 2005 E320 and just traded 2008 E350 4Matic for 2011 E350 Sport 4Matic in September. 2000 Miles on it now. Each car has been nicer than the prior one. The 2011 diffently has a better interior than the other two as far as I'm concerned. The Navigation/radio is located in a much more user friendly location compared to the other two I owned. And, the bluetooth connection works great, once you get the wright phone. Still not sure about back up camera option. Ambiant lighting is better. Was a little upset about no floor shifter but have since got used to the shift paddles on steering wheel, kind of fun shifting now. One thing I can tell you is that the wheels that come with the Sport Pkg. are really nice and they are using different brake pad material that leaves NO Brake Dust on the wheels. I've owned 7 new MB's now over the last 20 years and enjoy cleaning them 2 or 3 times per week. Wait till you see how easy it is to clean the wheels on the new 2011. I would go for it, if I were you.
#134
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
That alone is a HUGE improvement! Enjoy it in good health bud..