Keyless entry and start, interesting read
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Keyless entry and start, interesting read
Interesting article on car theft, especially for key less go cars!
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...h-car-thieves/
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...h-car-thieves/
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Isn't it also that the gear will not engage again if you put it on neutral or park when key is not in the car?
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That article is really about radio keys locking and unlocking cars not keyless go which uses a different system.
If they can mimic the signal from a keyless go they could drive the car away but as shown on "Top Gear" they only drive a few yards and the car stops once it is out of range of it's keyless go Key.
I'm not sure you could start the engine without a valid signal inside the car on an M-B.
Most of us with key less go never actually manually press a button so the only time the radio frequency is used is very briefly when you touch the door handle and again when sitting in the car.
Scarey stuff though it's better than a home invasion which seems the modern way to get a key.
Bill
If they can mimic the signal from a keyless go they could drive the car away but as shown on "Top Gear" they only drive a few yards and the car stops once it is out of range of it's keyless go Key.
I'm not sure you could start the engine without a valid signal inside the car on an M-B.
Most of us with key less go never actually manually press a button so the only time the radio frequency is used is very briefly when you touch the door handle and again when sitting in the car.
Scarey stuff though it's better than a home invasion which seems the modern way to get a key.
Bill
Last edited by WGB; Jan 21, 2011 at 02:54 AM.
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I'm a little confused, you don't push the start stop button to start your car?
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From: Perth, Western Australia
W212 E500, W164 320CDI, W116 450SEL 6.9, W116 450 SEL.
I meant that we don't press a button on the keys in our pocket like you do without keyless go.
Not sure the engine start button sends out a radio signal anyway.
These scanners have been around for years but they have principally been used to trap the code when you use your key to lock and unlock your car. This is a significant amount of radio energy and I am not sure that it is equivalent to the intensity of radio energy sent out when your hand touches the door handle with keyless go.
The principle method of stealing a modern car in Australia is by burglary for the keys or home invasion as by law all cars less than 25 years old have to be fitted with a Government approved immobiliser and are very hard to steal quickly.
Oh yes they also use a towtruck.
Bill
Last edited by WGB; Jan 21, 2011 at 03:32 AM.
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Do you have a link to this? With the W211 you could start the car with the key in the car and drive off and go anywhere without the key in the car, no warning or anything. At least in the W212 there is now a warning but I thought you could still drive anywhere. TIA
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From: Perth, Western Australia
W212 E500, W164 320CDI, W116 450SEL 6.9, W116 450 SEL.
WIS says key must be within 1 metre to be able to open door.
I will test out distance car will go later today without key in car.
Bill
I will test out distance car will go later today without key in car.
Bill
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That article is really about radio keys locking and unlocking cars not keyless go which uses a different system.
If they can mimic the signal from a keyless go they could drive the car away but as shown on "Top Gear" they only drive a few yards and the car stops once it is out of range of it's keyless go Key.
I'm not sure you could start the engine without a valid signal inside the car on an M-B.
Most of us with key less go never actually manually press a button so the only time the radio frequency is used is very briefly when you touch the door handle and again when sitting in the car.
Scarey stuff though it's better than a home invasion which seems the modern way to get a key.
Bill
If they can mimic the signal from a keyless go they could drive the car away but as shown on "Top Gear" they only drive a few yards and the car stops once it is out of range of it's keyless go Key.
I'm not sure you could start the engine without a valid signal inside the car on an M-B.
Most of us with key less go never actually manually press a button so the only time the radio frequency is used is very briefly when you touch the door handle and again when sitting in the car.
Scarey stuff though it's better than a home invasion which seems the modern way to get a key.
Bill
For those without keyless go, this would not work. The key fob would not be sending out any signals until pressed and you couldn't start the car because you'd need the actual key/key fob.
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An expansion of the article, "they were able to access the cars and drive them away"
http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/27037/?a=f
I scanned this real quick, probably more than we want to know, how they can access the ECU to put malicious code into an auto (for when you have 20 minutes with nothing to do).
http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-oakland2010.pdf
http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/27037/?a=f
I scanned this real quick, probably more than we want to know, how they can access the ECU to put malicious code into an auto (for when you have 20 minutes with nothing to do).
http://www.autosec.org/pubs/cars-oakland2010.pdf
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Are you sure? I was in my dad's MB with keyless go, and he had asked me to park it for him while he went inside to the building first, but he took the key with him. The car was still running and I got into the driver seat. When I tried to switch it out of "P" the instrument lit up red and gave me the "Key not detected".
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My S.A told me that it will stop 4 times or so (like full stops at lights, etc.) and then it'll shut off after that. He said it's a safety measure by M-B (i.e, if you got car jacked, it could be a safety risk if the car immediately shut off, dropping off said jacker in your proximity). Makes sense.
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From what I have read this is a little different, they intercept the code, "it's in essence like having the key". If you look at the attached article or do a series of internet searches, the articles/thesis was based on the need for ECU/keyless security systems software to prevent capture/hacking.
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I remember about 3 years ago, a friend of mine tried to convince me I could unlock my car through a cell phone call... Naturally, I thought it was bogus.
Then, we tried it. We used our cell phones and he held my keys next to his phone and I held my phone next to my car... When he clicked the unlock button next to his phone, it unlocked my car. Now, having that said, this was on a '98 Durango, and some technology has changed since then... But it worked at the time.
Then, we tried it. We used our cell phones and he held my keys next to his phone and I held my phone next to my car... When he clicked the unlock button next to his phone, it unlocked my car. Now, having that said, this was on a '98 Durango, and some technology has changed since then... But it worked at the time.
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Well I'm sure every company's car's act differently when the key is not in the car. Not sure what MB does. I do know that the key has to be close for the car to pick up the signal. So I would also think someone would have to be close to the key to grab the code. So if you see some burly guy rubbing up next to you with a large lump in his overcoat. It may not be cause he's glad to see you, but using an antenna to snag your signal. lol
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I understand that they could be able to drive off with the car but I still don’t know the facts surrounding how far they can drive without the key inside.
They can replicate the signal to start the car but once they drive off with the car the two thieves won’t have your keys signal anymore.
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I actually thought why not have the Keyless go "smart key" not react until prompted by the car and then no signal could be captured. Well sure enough when I looked up the MB keyless go information this is what it stated "quote below". So in essense, the signal can't be grabbed in the store cause the key fob does not send out a signal unless it's in close promimety to the vehicle. This is why the battery runs out so quick when the key is left in the vehicle for extended periods of time. It doesn't continuosly trasmit a code like the article wants you to believe. Now maybe there are system that do but the "smart key' does not.
The system works by having a series of LF (low frequency 125 kHz) transmitting antennas both inside and outside the vehicle. The external antennas are located in the door handles. When the vehicle is triggered either by pulling the handle or touching the handle an LF signal is transmitted from the antennas to the key. The key becomes activated if it is sufficiently close and it transmits its ID back to the vehicle via RF (Radio frequency >300 MHz) to a receiver located in the vehicle. If the key has the correct ID the PASE module unlocks the vehicle.
The system works by having a series of LF (low frequency 125 kHz) transmitting antennas both inside and outside the vehicle. The external antennas are located in the door handles. When the vehicle is triggered either by pulling the handle or touching the handle an LF signal is transmitted from the antennas to the key. The key becomes activated if it is sufficiently close and it transmits its ID back to the vehicle via RF (Radio frequency >300 MHz) to a receiver located in the vehicle. If the key has the correct ID the PASE module unlocks the vehicle.
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I actually thought why not have the Keyless go "smart key" not react until prompted by the car and then no signal could be captured. Well sure enough when I looked up the MB keyless go information this is what it stated "quote below". So in essense, the signal can't be grabbed in the store cause the key fob does not send out a signal unless it's in close promimety to the vehicle.
Here you go...
Originally Posted by Technologyreview.com
The researchers used a pair of antennas to transmit these signals from the car to the key when the key was farther away, tricking the car into opening without the ordinary authorization. One antenna needs to be very close to the car, and one needs to be within eight meters of the key.
