golfster

Now that the F10 has been out awhile, what are the monthly sales figures for each car (F10 and W212)?

K-A

The E-Class is still M-B's volume leader (pretty surprising) at: 4,759 sold units (U.S).

The F10 just debuted, so it's numbers will probably be around as high as it'll get for them (unless new models are released, i.e X-Drives, or lower engine models, which might happen).

F10 sold: 4,350.

This seems like a major Sales victory for the E-Class, considering the F10's new debut, and one-year-newer aspect. However, remember that the E's numbers are a little fudged, as it includes: Sedan (by far the volume seller), Coupe, Cabrio, and Wagon.

ngerstman

I believe that historically the c class would be the volume leader for MB by a decent margin. I guess the relative newness of the e compared to the c could explain some of the difference as well as incentives and/or the economy doing better or a monthly anomaly. Or perhaps it is the much more elegant interior of the e class when compared to the homely c class. Who knows. Regards. Ned.

220S

From auto industry news:

"BMW sales increased 20 percent, Audi also publishes a 20 percent increase while Mercedes-Benz reports 14 percent raise.

Mercedes-Benz sold 17,273 vehicles in January. The E-Class sales were at 4,795 units. The C-Class sales grew 3.6 percent to 4,172 models sold. The M-Class SUV reported sales of 28.9 percent over last January, or 2,484 vehicles.

In January, BMW sold 15,905 vehicles. Best performing vehicles included the new X3 SAV – officially on sale in the U.S. for only two weeks – up 273.3 percent to 1,075 units; the 5 Series, up 76.2 percent to 4,350 units and the facelifted X5, up 23.6 percent to 3,038 units."

golfster

Opinions are subjective, but the numbers don't suggest a derailment for M-B.

K-A

Oddly enough, the E has outsold the C, and been the volume leader every month since it came out. Again though, there are the Sedan, Coupe, and now Vert and Wagon options, although, no doubt the vast majority sold are Sedans.

hyperion667

maybe I'll go play with one at the dealer and make them think I want one......lol.......
sure it happens all the time..........

ngerstman

I don't have access to Wards, who is the industry sales bible, but another source had 2009 c sales at 52,427 versus e sales of 43,072. For 2010, c sales were 58,922 versus 60,922. The next biggest seller is the ml, with sales between 25,000-30,000. Regards. Ned.

K-A

That's weird. I'm pretty sure every individual month that I kept track of last year had the E as the volume leader. Maybe I'm wrong (or missed a bunch of months where it wasn't).

ngerstman

My data confirms that the e outsold the c last year but not in 2009. Regards. Ned.

220S

fwiw, worldwide:

208,400 W212 E Class

211,968 F10 BMW 5 Series

MB is overall number one seller in Germany. Don't know the specific numbers for E Class, but MB's portfolio is much bigger outside the US (including more CDI, A and B Class, etc..)

K-A

Isn't Audi the worldwide leader so far in 2011/Jan (not in U.S of course)? Can't remember if I heard that, or if I heard that they're right on the heels of it, or something.

Anyway, I have no problem with the F10 outselling the W212, so less people would drive my car, comparatively.

5-Series' have usually outsold E-Classes, so it's nothing new. This gen E-Class is obviously very popular though, as it's holding on strong to the new 5'er (and leading it in some markets/out market). I wish M-B would break down which sales of the "E" nameplate are going to the actual "E", being the Sedan, as opposed to the Coupe.

220S

fwiw, the number I quoted was for the sedans.

imho, here are three good places for industry news, numbers, and forecasts:

http://blog.truecar.com/

http://www.autonews.com/

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/

btw, since I know you're interested in the safety stuff, did you see the latest report from that institute in Connecticut that assess the "statistical analysis of risk elements?" They released their 2011 data this month.

Here's a .pdf of it. The F10 came in the highest with a score of 36 and the W212 with a score of 54. Anything under 69.5 is considered good. This is a numerical analysis of all the data and is trying to get consumers away from the 5 star and 'good/poor' rating systems. There's an interesting report on they've published about mfgs trying to get the star ratings and hope consumers don't investigate the rest of it.

With this data, not many cars made it. The W212 was in the best 14% for 2011. The F10 and the Ford Taurus were in the top 1%. But what's surprising is the cars that consumers considered to have top ratings are actually in the very low ratings, such as Audi and Volvo.

Wig

Do the 5 Series sales figures include the 5GT?

RJC

I hope MB is reading all this. I found the E coupe interior plastic rather disappointing, not sure what the major difference is between the E coupe's interior vs the sedan but it sounds like they're pretty close

E550Shopper

Somewhere above it seemed like someone expressed surprise that the E would outsell the C given that the E is more expensive. But my guess is that the 3-series crushes the C in sales, such that (3 + C) is a fair bit more than (5 + E).

E550Shopper

220S: That PDF is super interesting. Note though that since the E hasn't been tested on the 2011 NHTSA standard, they've filled in the average car's values for the NHTSA tests. So, if you believe that the E's better than average for safety, they've probably underestimated the E's rating on their scale.

Would be interesting to see this once the E's been tested.

K-A

I agree. The Sedans is significantly better though, although there are some shared materials, overall, it's a class above the Coupe (seats aside).

220s: Yeah, I've actually checked that site out. It's a good site, and a good "one stop shop", but unfortunately, I don't think it tells the full story. Factors like how well a cabin held up in a crash, and individual statistics, etc. aren't incorporated. For example, the F10 gets a "G" for roof strength, but meets the bare minimum to get there, with a weak-for-what-we'd-expect 15K lbs of withstanding ability. Also, the E doesn't seem to have sufficient data to get accurate scores. Further, I usually do my own research, and combine different data. I can't comment on which car I think absorbs hits better, between the F10 and 212 (but can say I trust M-B's knowledge of safety more), and the F10 seems to score as good as, or better than the 212 in that area. But as far as which complete car seems to have a more solid safety cage, able to hold its ground when the forces push, I don't think there's a question as to the E being stronger (overall).

As for the sales numbers, that's super "impressive" of the E's sales, to hold so close worldwide to the brand new F10 (which should have its highest sales of its life cycle during its debut year). Either way, F10 can have the sales crown for all I care, if anything, I might prefer it to stay like that, for my own selfish reasons.

220S

The 3 series crushes just about anything in its segment. TTAC ran an industry article about the 3 series as BMW's bread and butter and that it's the car that all manufacturers want to knock off the top spot. Their website is down right now, but I'll try to find the article later.

Have you seen the new C Class? The interior has been completely redone (and no more pop up COMAND screen, either.) It actually looks pretty decent now. I think it will help give it a much better run against the 3 series. And the new C coupe should do pretty well.

Bottom line is that both cars are excellent options. Competition is always a good thing. We have great choices in cars now than in the past. Once the W212 gets its update with the better motors and (presumably) a better integrated COMAND and Sat Nav, and probably a new tranny, it will be even more competitive.

(And then BMW will up the ante once again. This is all good for us as consumers. )

K-A

Of course. I wonder if the W212 will get the 9-Speed during its model run actually (probably, as the W222 will probably debut with it).

Command is definitely gonna improve as well. I have doubts that it'll physically change, but the tech will certainly improve I assume. The new C and CLS are debuting the new I/C display, which is a nicer, more hi-fi improvement from the already fine blue screen in middle of the speedo area.

Yeah, the 3 is just a dominating force. Even with such a popular car like a W204, which launched with so much buzz, and to this day, holds a strong buzz, and has been a quality car so far, not to mention 2 years newer, the 3 still kills it in sales.

The 3 is so strong, I, and many, happen to see it as BMW's flagship car. Not the 7, but the 3. While, M-B does it the "normal" way, keeping the largest Sedan, the flagship.

The next 3 Series will be coming out in either 2012 or more probably 2013 MY, and it will look like a smaller, more aggressive 5-Series, with some newer design themes, etc., from BMW incorporated, like square-bottom Angel-Eyes, etc.

And yeah, the C is FINALLY a completely good car. Before, the W204's interior was/is a complete piece of lacking-in-refinement crudeness. The new interior looks like a baby E-Class, HUGE improvement. In fact, many, and myself, think it even shows better than the "E"-Coupe's interior, which actually resembles a pre-facelifted W204 more than the facelifted W204 interior does.

Speaking of the C Coupe, I wonder what M-B is thinking, as it will certainly eat away at the "E"-Coupe's sales. Fact is, both cars are built on the same platform. The "E"-Coupe" has a premium only for some added luxury items here and there, W212-E gimmick looks, larger motor options, more intricate styling, and much nicer pillar-less greenhouse (with roll down rear windows.... Which is a look I've never really liked personally anyways).

BTW, going back to that Safety Website.... Is that correct, in how they stated that the F10 weighs 4600 lbs!! That is INSANE. The W212 is "only" just under 3900 lbs. The F10 is a very strong bodied car, but it is known that BMW "cut costs" in the materials used, not in strength necessarily, but in expensive/lightweight/advanced materials. No or very little aluminum, etc. In order to gain strength, they did it the old fashioned way, heavy steels, and lots of it.

220S

I know the 550i weighs in at 4376 lbs. Not sure about the 535i, but it's probably close.

BMW claims to use "aluminum totaling up to 20 percent of the vehicle weight” (according to Frank Wienstroth, head of BMW communications.)

The upcoming M5 is supposed to be a hybrid of an aluminum space frame for the front section and a traditional steel monocoque for the passenger compartment and rear.

I'm not so much a brand fan as I am a specific model fan. I like Porsche only because of the 911s and the performance, but not all their offerings. Same with BMW and MB. I might consider a W212 later when it gets more improvement, but I honestly still can't stomach the design. I just can't, no matter how hard I try. I guess I'm not into Wagener's aesthetic sensibilities, is all. It's like the choice we all make in a lot of things: women; food; clothing; etc.. We all have our own aesthetics, priorities, etc..

K-A

True that. I'm really loving my cars aesthetic a lot right now, but I'm still critical of M-B's design direction, and know what I love about the new designs, and what I still don't, and won't. For example, I think the 212 will look like a timeless classic compared to the fussy stuff we might be seeing soon. The very haphazard CLS character lines are just a preview into the future. Based on some renderings, the W222 S-Class might have an array of random and weird squiggly lines on the side.

K-A

I saw my first lightly "modded" F10 today (or should I say, my first "enthusiast owned F10 today). It was white, and simply had some black tints, and maybe some side marker tweaks (just some simple "clean-up" mods). Enough to keep the OEM grace, but bring out the design. I didn't even pay attention to whether it had the M-Pack (which isn't that beautiful to me, as it takes an elegant and graceful car, and makes it look kind of mismatched with a darth vader body kit, but it's obviously much more captivating in an aggressive sense, and I'd choose an F10 with it regardless), but at the very least, it had the Sport Pack.

It looked gorgeous. The extra black effect, and clean-ups made it look much larger, and more alluring than the normal bland-ified F10's I usually see on the road.

The car definitely has beauty, and it's not a popping-smoke effect, it's a subtle beauty that you have to really study a bit to really appreciate. That's the best kind IMO. I think the W212 is certainly more beautiful, dynamic, and captivating, jab for jab, but the F10 is a damn nice car!

ImInPA

I like the looks of the F10 just fine. The one thing that just kills the car for me is the ridiculous turning radius. I have see posts here where folks have cited that the 1.5 seconds to go from D to R in manuvers like 3-point turns as unacceptabe. How about a vehicle that may not even be able to make a 3 point turn? The base tire package yields a 40ft turning radius. Put larger tires and wheels on, and, the turning radious probably goes up to 42 feet. The E-class turns in 36 ft. I have some narrow streets where I live and have had "barges" with large turning radius. I am saddened tha the F10 has become one of them.

Tjdehya

40ft turning radius? lol did BMW build a Limo.

I also find the gear shifts to be very slow in our cars. Pain fully slow sometimes.
Also it will spool up an launch the vehicle if you hit the gas before it completes its painfully slow shift.