ngerstman

I think that it is pretty silly to characterize a Mercedes as an "old man's car". The demographic of people who can afford a Mercedes just happens to be older because it is generally older people who have the money to buy one. And I don't feel "car inferior" because I don't want to drive the "driving machine" and feel the crappy roads below me. The Mercedes suspension and handling have always been the right balance, IMO. I consider a car that lets me feel every bump and rough patch to be inferior, a failing in engineering, not superior. I am older and wiser not driven by the marketing hype of lesser vehicles. Regards. Ned.

BenzE350

Mercedes offers plenty of options, as does BMW.

Generally the larger the series (C to E to S, -or- 3 to 5 to 7) the softer the suspension. Within most models there are also lux and sport versions. Additionally there are usually performance versions with the stiffest suspensions/chasis and most powerful engines (AMG and M).

Every Mercedes driver doesn't want to float on a pillow, and every BMW driver doesn't want to feel every bump in the road.

ImInPA

And all this time, I was hoping that my E was going to make me look older and more mature.

220S

As I mentioned in my previous post, the "old man's car" stereotype is silly. But it's real. It's in every car forum, all over the internet, etc.. Look at that Audi ad I posted. I even get it when I'm at PCA (Porsche Club of America) events and I'm no old man. And yet there are plenty of old men with 997s.

As far as the buying demographics, older people have the money to buy Ferrari and Lamborghini and Porsche GT3s. And the majority of those owners are in fact older. But they are never considered old man's cars.

And what Ned points out about the softer ride is why they are considered old people's cars. Not everyone wants a car that is too soft nor one that is too stiff. But younger drivers tend to tolerate stiffer suspensions and therefore like having more feedback. Older people don't. Younger people tend to drive more spiritedly, older people don't.

Of course there are exceptions, but there is the stereotype. And it's fairly accurate.

Both styles are great but only depending on what you are looking for in your driving experience. It's not "marketing hype." The chassis of an E60 550i and an E Class E550 is very different. And it was built differently for a reason. One offers a cushion-like ride with an air suspension and overboosted steering, and the other offers a stiffer ride with much more road handling ability and precise steering feel, especially at the extremes. From early on, BMW used "Ultimate Driving Machine" in the context of spirited sports sedan style of driving (look at their ads from back in the late 1960s and 1970s when they were first being imported by Max Hoffman. Even back then they were promoting spirited driving in a sedan.)

But that's not to say that a BMW is "ultimate" all the way around and for everybody. That was precisely the opposite point that they were trying to make. They were marketing a sports sedan. And this is also why some BMW customers are "complaining" that the new F10 BMW is too soft (it's been designed more towards a MB buying demographic now, as I also mentioned in my previous post.)

golfster

I usually avoid jumping in on stereotypical assumptions. However, in comparing the activity in the BMW forum to that of our own, maybe there is something to it.

Only in the M-B forum do you see 55 posts of amazement over a "HOLD" feature on a brake pedal!

BenzE350

I thought I was the only one how found this ironic.

K-A

Lol. Exactly. I think that age demographics aren't as spot on as so many people think they are. Fact is, these cars are too expensive for most young people, and that's a great thing, and it's part of the reason many people want to buy into a more mature brand like M-B. I see such a wide variety of buyers in E Sedans and Coupes, lots of young guys in W212's, lots of old guys and lady's, it's all over the place. Same with the Coupe. I've yet to see a young person in an F10 though, lol (don't pay attention).


Also agreed. Many "M-B haters" will use that as a common theme for the brand ("old-persons" theory), but fact is, the brand is widely seen as the Luxury benchmark, so naturally, part of that is accommodating to old people, however, there's also the fact that M-B is probably the most sought after, and popular car brand in Pop Culture. You hear and see WAY more M-B's in Rap Video's, on Celeb Shows, driven by Athletes, etc. than you do BMW, etc. Frankly, I think the "old persons" stereotype is much better, lol. However, both of these draw a very dynamic, and what we see now as natural "Mercedes" stereotype to most of the commoners.

RNBRAD

Isn't that the truth. When I would watch Cribs on Mtv, rarely would you see a BMW but it was almost guaranteed they would always have a Mercedes in the garage if not several of them. Speaking of stereotypes, the MB is a symbol of success more so than any other brand and of course the pop culture, successful athlete's have always flaunted their wealth and what better way to do it than dropping some dough on a Benz.

K-A

Exactly!

"Mercedes-Benz" has been indeed the symbol of success in Pop Culture, and society. You'll hear that name come out of peoples mouths more-so than any brand, including Rolls, etc. It draws that fine line between popularity and being common enough to have constant promotion, heritage, and prestigious cache.

When I got my first "Luxury Car", BMW didn't do it for me, and I "Wanted A Benz", as to me, it made me feel like I've succeeded at something. I don't care how realistic that is, or how many E's are on the road, or how many more expensive cars there are in the world. To me, M-B has always kept that image, and they've had it for a loooong time (probably why even the hardest of times for the brand, wasn't able to dethrone them from that image).

It's funny, because, although I grew up in a W126, BMW's were always in my family from later-grade school, through just a year ago. My Mom married a BMW Dealership owner, and I've experienced every BMW model (mostly pre-Bangle era), very closely, and extensively. I spent many boring hours in the back seat of an E38 7-Series (the 7 benchmark still), passed my driving test in an E34 5-Series (and had about every member of my immediate family with one or consecutive E34's of their own), "borrowed" a gorgeous E39 5-Series in High School when my Mom left town (and didn't know ), drove an E60 5-Series on the way to buy my first Benz (W220), since I was borrowing it as an interim car, and someone asked if I was "the guy who pulled up in that Camry", lol. Also, sat passenger as we drove a pre-production Z3 on the streets of L.A, right when the Bond movie came out, and to this day, I've NEVER seen a car get so many stares and attention, etc.

All that said, BMW just didn't hold that highest cache to me personally. And when I was able to get my personal dream car/brand, I went right to M-B.

golfster

I think M-B is on to something with this old-man car target. As we age, we can take our canes, apply them to the "hold" brake when street dragging a BMW at the light. Pressing the gas pedal at the same time, tap our canes back on the pedal and vrrroooommm!!! (new, old-man's launch control) Let's show those young, whipper-snapper BMW driving punks that M-B is still king of the road. And add a Sprint Booster to the mix, and even the editors of Car and Driver will finally give M-B the long awaited just respect the brand so deserves!!

220S

I hope you people are joking. Do you really buy stuff for the 'cachet?'

How you conduct your life and what you offer to the world should be what makes you feel like you've "succeeded at something." Not what brand of car you own.

What you own isn't about 'succeeding' whatsoever. It's only about having access (earned or not) to money.

I hope there are others who buy this car for its performance and use value and not the perceived cachet nor the name. And not for "stares or attention." I mean really.

People complain about marketing (e.g., 'Ultimate Driving Machine') and then fall for the marketing of the Benz 'cachet.'

K-A

Of course my car doesn't literally define any "success", or what I contribute to society, etc. But as a car enthusiast, I develop a passion for some brands, and much of it starts from childhood memories. Sitting in my first Benz as a kid, and dreaming of owning one one day, etc.

Also, I do enjoy the cache that the Mercedes brand has, and the respect that it commands (BMW, Porsche, etc. also are in this boat). Not in some braggart "get parked out front" way, as I don't care about that, but the respect it has garnered within the world and history of automotive'ness.

Sitting in my car, and seeing that historic Star on the wheel, makes me feel good, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. Not in some d-bag superiority complex way, but in an introverted, respectful way. I wouldn't feel the same with a Toyota symbol on my wheel. Does this mean that I'll buy a car only for the Star? No way. But it does mean that cache goes a long way for me. And again, not in a show-off'y way, but in a way that is an accumulation of years of respect from a brand, who has been a leading and positive force in an industry, and more importantly, one that has and continues to appeal to me. It's like a bloodline/family affair type of thing as well, as with many things.

Musical Artists develop cache, Restaurants also do, etc.

All that said, I won't buy a Benz just because "it's a Benz", but like many people have Sports Teams that they obsess over (an odd thing to me, but I was like that when I was younger), I have my "home team" car makers as well. Sure, they have the upper hand when I start car shopping, so instead of winning me over, all they have to do is continue to please me more-so than the next one.

RNBRAD

Exactly. To me it's always been "whats all the rave about owning a Benz"? It's a cultural thing which sparked my interest, intrigued me as to find out if the rave was justified. Had always heard that the finest luxury car in the world, if you could afford to own one, was a Mercedes Benz. Growing up when I was younger and in the military you would see a lot of guys from over seas bring back their BMW's, wasn't a big deal and owning one was not of "special" significance for whatever reason, maybe cause they were just more common and anyone and everyone seemed like they have or had one. BMW was just never perceived or placed as high on the pedestal of car ownership as a Mercedes Benz. So the mystique, cachet as you call it of owning a Benz was kind of what allured me to the brand, kind of a curiosity as to is this brand worth all the hype. There's really nothing I don't like about a BMW other than the brand. Brand perception & reputation is a big selling point among every commodity and MB wins that hands down in my book.

The key question here is, is the MB deserving of it's perception, does brand perception/cachet relate to reality or is it just marketing hype played out on an undeserving brand? I don't think so. I bought the car cause it excelled in all these area's beyond anything else out there, whether cachet, beauty, heritage, reliability, brand, ride...it was the cumulation of all of these things that brought me to my final decision. To me it wasn't really hard at all, but first and foremost was the beauty of the w211 that brought me into the brand more than anything. Had it not been the beauty of the car in the 1st place, for either the 211 or 212, I'd be driving something else.

hyperion667

nothing but erudites.............lol

ImInPA

There could have been even more posts on the HOLD feature, but, at our age, many of us forgot to comment or what the discussion was about. French toast please.

BenzE350

The HOLD thread is up to 73 posts. There is a new thread about putting 16" wheels on an E350 luxury model to get a softer ride. And this thread about a BMW 550 turned into commentary on the "cache" of the 3-pointed star.

Oh...and I'm stupid enough to be reading it all.

ImInPA

Well, in that case, since the thread is already hijacked...anyone considering putting a Vinyl Top on their E? How about metalic "curb feelers"?

FEGELEIN

The old man stigma, is from back in the day. Back in the day, Benzes were boatie and lacked performance compared to BMW, so BMW appealed more to the youth / yuppies. Since then, Benz caught on and made all their cars performers. It's like the old Cadillac stigma, yet the new Caddies are hot and fast. The CTS V is a monster!!

MBNUT1

As I've said it before I liked it better when the kids in the neighborhood thought my dads Mercedes was a funny looking car and they were so rare that you beeped your horn everytime you saw another one. The neighbors Chrysler Newport had far more cachet than my dad's 180 could ever dream of but it couldn't run flat out for hours on end.
To me at that time my Dad's Mercedes epitomized the definition of the word quality.

K-A

Has anyone figured out a good place to put our canes in this car? I think the hood star is a good place to hook it.

Actually, it's funny, because I see some "older people" who you can just tell don't give a damn about cars, but want a well sized Benz Sedan, in the W212 Sport, and it just looks funny. The car is so cunning, aggressive and sleek and dynamic, that it looks somewhat oddly mismatched (although, it's still got a sophisticated and traditional 3-Box look, which is appropriate for that "demographic", hence the "dynamic" aspect). This is another reason why having the AMG Package as an almost mandatory free option is ridiculous for this car. Much of the demographic would "appear" more appropriated to the more elegant and understated Luxury model.

ImInPA

"Old" does not equal "Dead".

scfishnman

Aren't you an arrogant young person?

I am 65 and have been a car buff all of my life. I've owned Corvettes, Nissan 280Z, 280ZX, 300Z, Porsche, MGB, BMW Z4, Mercedes CLK500 Cabriolet, Cadillac El Dorado, Cadillac CTS, BMW 535i as well as "old person" sedans such as Cadillac DTS, Mercedes S550 and many others. Old age is a state of mind!

How many on this forum driving sport models are over 50?

220S

My neighbor three houses down from me is probably around 65 or so (I haven't actually asked him, of course.) He picked up his new Italia a few months ago after applying for one. He also has a F430 and about 10 other cars in an underground garage at his house. He seems like a pretty cool guy and really knows his cars. He is a pal of Bobby Rahal and Dave Letterman (they own a racing team together.) He also knew Paul Newman who raced until he was over 70 years old.

Although he doesn't own a Mercedes.....

p.s. Jackie Stewart is 72 years old. He was awesome on Top Gear when he tried to teach James May (a puppy in comparison) how to drive.

ttoE550

Umm, I knew several 50+ (many 60+) instructors in the Skip Barber racing series who could outrace anyone in the series, including many that turned pro (one, in fact, is in Formula 1, another in Nascar, and yet another in Indy (or whatever it is now)). I don't know how you would be able to tell that any one of them doesn't give a damn about cars -- they look like normal guys. And I have personally witnessed them blow away sports cars on a race track while driving a standard Dodge Neon.

I am not an "older person" but I don't presume anything about them.

ttoE550

Just remembered! The woman who ran SB at the time was 60+ and she could outrace the instructors. In fact, she raced semi-trucks sometime in her career! She looked normal too.