Well your suspicions have not come to fruition in the 5 series (now well into their second model year). And frankly it is meaningless since the conversation is regarding V8 cars, not I6's...

 

Actually, I'd say this fairly short thread sums it up nicely with the "new" F10 problem that replaced the HPFP problems. If it isn't one thing, its another with BMW.

 

Tires? Seriously? You are comparing an issue with engine reliability to the TIRES they decided to put on their cars? Cool story bro!

 

First off it is a real problem. But it is a Goodyear problem, and only when you have a sport package with 19" rims/tires. Any other brand of tire does not exhibit the same tendency to bubble.

I would certainly not call it a major issue or anything even close to the HPFP issue BMW went through. And at the end of the day upon the very first bubble a person experiences on their car- BMW or Goodyear (depending on where you go) will replace all four tires with another brand for free (if you ask). It does not get better than that.

 

I think it depends on how you view it. Is it arrogance or ignorance on the part of BMW that they not only refuse to rectify the problem, but have actually made it worse by now fitting all sport package cars with 19inch wheels and those tires?

In the past, one could get the same mechanicals on the normal sport package as that was fitted with 18Inch wheels, but now even that package comes fitted with 19 inch wheels.

While Goodyear dealers may replace the tires for free, BMW dealers do not and there is no other appropriately sized all season tire available in that size. While I am a great proponent of swapping tires for winter use, I realize that most people just want to drive on all seasons all year long.

emilner - how many tires and wheels have you had replaced? IIRC, at last count it was 8 tires and 3wheels - is that right? Did Goodyear pay for the wheels too?

This failure may actually be more serious than the HPFP as it shows that BMW has not learned to test their cars in the environment where they will be driven.

 

Huh? First how has BMW failed to rectify the problem? Most new cars come with Michelin, Bridgestone or Dunlop tires. BMW is stuck right now with the all-seasons for AWD cars as GY is the only company that makes them so far. I do not blame BMW for that, I do not know how you do. It is a problem, but the blame starts with GY (and yes I still do blame BMW, but I realize there is no perfect company). If you are worried about bent rims/bubbled tires it is so freaking easy to fix. Either don't get a sports package with AWD or get insurance.

I also don't know how you blame BMW for making sports package cars come with 19" tires/rims. Isn't is a sports package? What's next- you will start complaining that fuel efficient packages result in higher MPGs?

BMW dealers do replace them for free. In the beginning they did not because there was no known problem, but now it is a different story.

Yes, I went through 8 tires until late last winter. BMW replaced all of my tires with Dunlops. And yep, I had three bent rims (one bad one and the other were slightly bent but we changed all three).

Why would you expect GY to be responsible for rims? Do you feel that BMW now has a problem with bent rims? If so, then it is the same problem with every other manufacturer on the planet. My 2007 E550 had two bent rims (18's no less). Was that Mercedes fault? Should we bash MB now? I will say that the pothole that bent two rims on my E (tires were fine) also devastated the incredibly weak suspension system on the car. The steering wheel was 110 degrees off center and the car was pulling hard to the right- it took the dealer all day to fix. It was NOT a major pothole. In all of my bubbles and bent rims my 550ix runs dead straight with a perfectly centered steering wheel (and on some potholes I was waiting for the airbag to blow)...

 

Have you seen a significant number of complaints about bent wheels on cars retrofitted with "other than Goodyear" tires? I haven't. Each report of a damaged wheel comes from Goodyear LS drivers.

My point is that BMW has a habit of ignoring chronic problems and placing blame on consumers until they are faced with a landslide of complaints.

BMW makes a great car and the HPFP isn't a signiificant problem outside of North America (and the 19" wheel issues in the UK - same bad roads). Accordingly, we can blame BMW for fitting improper tires to the cars and not resolving the issue.

 

I have not seen one example of a person paying for mounting and balancing, like I said since last winter when the problem surfaced.

There are a relatively small number of 5 series cars sold with AWD and sports packages. Like you said- they are mainly sold to enthusiasts- and we make up less than 1% of the population.

I am not saying there is no blame regarding BMW. BUT THEY ARE ADDRESSING IT AS AGGRESSIVELY AS THEY CAN. The problem is related to two facts- it is limited to GY LS2 19" tires and there is no other brand that makes tires in that category. So BMW can do one of two things- stop offering AWD cars with sports packages and/or offer them with 18" tires (an option that I would detest) or replace tires for free until another manufacturer comes out with an all season replacement (supposedly they should be out soon). Maybe BMW owners expect more out of a sports package than 18" rims and tires, after all it is a sports package.

I do not see any way that BMW is ignoring the problem. Sh*t happens, cars are not perfect and they have moved quick and are aggressively fixing things to the best of anyone's ability, after all- they don't make tires. I have yet to see one report of a blowout- just bubbles. And lets face it- every manufacturer or dealer offers tire/rim insurance.

 

Sorry about that...

Seriously though. Take a look at the new A6 if you have some time. Can't hurt anything and from what I've researched they've created a very nice vehicle with some very nice toys that you can't get in the E550. I realize your post was about the BMW or MB but if you are considering the BMW, I think it is reasonable to point out that you might also want to look at the new A6.

I found this video online with a nice overview of the new A6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZVbhB0Yi68

I am no Audi fan and I didn't even bother test driving an A6 when I bought my car but I think this new A6 is quite nice and if I were to decide on a new car today, I'd look at it just for the heck of it.

I obviously love the MB brand but I think MB has some catching up to do in this segment...

Before I get flamed or piled on by MB enthusiasts for talking about an Audi just realize competition is good and hopefully you realize that it is good to know what else is out there. This is the only way we are going to get better cars...

Safe driving!

 

This is somewhat true, as the tires aren't related to the F10 technically, although from an ownership experience, it's all one and the same. However, the F10 has a lot more serious, engineering related problems that have been reported to plague the cars consistently thus far, than just tires.

I went by a BMW Dealership today to check out a 6-Series again and some F10's, as I figured what the heck.

First off, the 6-Series Coupe in White and with M-Pack is an absolute beauty, an elegant and graceful beauty. Far better balanced, smoother designed and well executed than the CLS's exterior. Wayy overpriced at over $100K though, just not that expensive of a nameplate and not technically bespoke enough from its lower priced siblings.

The F10's loaded with M-Pack and goodies interior is what always impresses me. I stand by that the 5-Series gives off a more upmarket aura inside than the E-Class, even though material quality is somewhat on par with each other (the E actually has a nicer steering wheel with better feeling leather). However, the W212 as I feel is a spiritual successor to the W126, follows that "Welcome Home" theme the W126 pushed. The ambiance inside the W212, and the feeling you get when sitting in and driving it is more comfortable, airy and soothing than the F10 IMO. The design layout is pure logic and confidence inspiring, while the F10 dazzles you more. I feel the E pushes more for the subconscious win while the F10 wins on a instantly gratifying level (interior wise). Where the E also wins IMO is the solidity factor and durability factor inside. Not only are BMW's notorious for having steering wheels and materials that fade prematurely, but many of the switches and pieces didn't feel as drum-tight as the E's. Also apparently BMW doesn't dye their plastics, instead puts "stickers" on top of the various buttons, allowing them also to peel prematurely.

Now, exterior I feel is somewhat the opposite (re: instant gratifying VS subconscious), with the E being a bit more visually upmarket and a more dynamic design, while the F10 has a timelessness, grace and balance that doesn't call out to you, but is just pleasing and I doubt would get old. My beefs with that design which bug me more and more are how chunky-bloated it is, despite how much they were able to lean and smooth it out from the previous BMW design language, and how unfinished and underwhelming the front end looks. It looks too flat, non-pronounced, and bloated/basic. The sides look great and fantastically proportioned, and I LOVE the rear of the F10. However, the front at most angles is a big disappointment IMO.

Here's a pic of an F10 550i with M-Pack next to a 6'er Vert (blech at the Vert aspect) sans M-Pack that was on the lot, btw:

 

six series have ALWAYS been my favorite bmw

 

Not quite correct. BMW still uses, and Audi/Vw used to use, a "soft touch" coating on some of their interior bits. This coating is basically rubberized paint that gives off a more luxurious feeling when new but here again, the market dynamics in the US were not taken into consideration.

Soft touch has a tendency to peel when exposed to oils in areas where the surface area is damaged.

We tend to use more oily products in the US to care for our cars and for ourselves. ArmorAll, hand lotions, burger grease, makeup, bug spray and sun spray all lead to premature peeling. You'll find more peeling in cars driven by women (longer nails cause scratches that then start peeling from the hand lotions and makeup) or from people who eat in their cars.

Audi stopped using soft touch in the mid 2000's and VW stopped in 2007. There was a flurry of "VW cheapened out with the controls" complaints in 2007 until people realized that the only thing that changed was the soft touch coating.

 

Thank you. I have been watching/reading with great interest how the thread has developed from my initial inquiry about choosing between MB and BMW into reflecting on Audi features.

Took A6 twice and A7 once for a test drive during these two weeks and do not like them! While I absolutely agree that A6 (A7) accelerate on par with E550, I (1) totally dislike their front appearance. I (2) felt that their suspension is garbage in comparison with 5 series, nor to speak about E550 as I felt every bump on the road with my a... . (3) A popping up screen is annoying. While IMO E550 drives with some stately weight, Audi A6 feels like an unguided toy. Sometimes I felt scared while maneuvering among other vehicles. But these are my impressions. Others may think differently. Someone said here you either love or have A6. I belong to the second category.

BTW, ordering E550 tomorrow, Tuesday.

PS: Just want to add in the morning to avoid misunderstanding that my a... is not that reactive .... normally...

 

Congrats! You'll love your E550. Glad you considered all the options so you can get what suits you the best. At the end of the day if I had to make the decision all over again, I might still get the E550 as well. I was feeling a bit envious when I first came across all the toys built into the A6 so that's why I thought you should look at it. Now that you have, you can enjoy your E550 even more knowing it is the best car for you out there!

 

550 is boss!

 

E550 FTW!

 

It seems that you took your time and made an informed decision with the help of our peanut gallery!! I have owned my e550 for almost a year now and while it is not perfect(my main issue is still the hardness of airmatic over rough roads and increased risk of blowouts), I don't regret my purchase at all. All and all, I still think that it is a car worthy of the Mercedes badge and in the zone of best in class. The 2012 could be even better. Congratulations. Regards. Ned.

 

Hello all! I'm just an old lurker here. I just want to clear something out. Stop comparing A6/A7 3.0 TFSI with E550 or BMW550. The true comparables will be with the Audi S6/S7 with its 4.0 TT and S-Tronic with AWD. This car won’t be available in NA before next year and they are supposed to bring the RS6. I hope that this is real because its going to be very challenging.

 

That is absolutely true, but how many (in the US at least) will pay more for S6 (and much more for S7) than for E550 4matic or 550ix?

 

Here in Canada all German cars are more expensive than in the U.S. In my case I am willing to pay. I would love to have the AMG E Sedan or Wagon but no AWD. Where I live we are part of the Snow Belt and it’s a must to drive year round safely. The E-550 has a nice engine with 4-Matic but no effective transmission…I actually drive an S4 and the S-Tronic is a piece of art that is very fast and very effective but I need a more spacious car. So Audi has a share of market that no BMW or MB can answer to for people in need of more sportiness with AWD (Torsen system biased 40-60), dual clutch transmission and FI engine with high torque and flat power band. I want all of those in one car and the offer is very thin. I really love MB for there solidity and reliability but nothing answers my needs except future S6/S7 or Panamera… I understand that all this is more $$ and that some are not willing to pull the trigger that high.

 

I re-read your post twice. I still don't understand it. Are you saying BMW and MB do not make cars to compete with the A6/7? The 550ix and the E550 4matic are fantastic alternatives....

 

I think he is saying that only Audi offers the dual-clutch transmission and that he prefers Audi's Quattro set up over 4Matic and X-Drive.

 

I would agree on all above. Now only if Audi could put MB's star and grill on its hood instead of 4 rings and "Audi grill" (my wife loves the star and hates those rings with post 2006 grills), I'd have to change my id to 2MBs.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough (May be my English is that bad).

The pricing strategy in Canada is very different and higher than what you may expect in the U.S. For us, Canadian customer, A6 3.0 TFSI competes with E350 4matic and 535 Xdrive (A7/S7 may compete with the CLS because of the style and $$ also). If you go upscale it will be the S6 that will compete with E550 4Matic and 550 Xdrive. But S6 is sportier because of the Dual Clutch (S-Tronic) instead of a traditional auto transmission. You will also get a sport differential (Torque Vectoring diff.), something that is not available beside AMG or M models. That is why I said that BMW and MB do not cover this part of the offer that in my case is a must for what I like from this type of car. Also, the Quattro system, in my opinion, is superior on a reaction level from a sport driving view with the sport differential. But if you don't need this kind of must You will be well served with the E550 4Matic or E550 Xdrive offer, they are such great cars.

A6 3.0TFSI/AWD (310HP) = BMW335XI = MB E350 4Matic
S6 4.0TFSI/AWD (420HP) = BMW550XI = MB E550 4Matic
RS6 4.0TFS/AWD (~580HP) = BMWM5 = MB E63 AMG

It is true that for the price Audi seems a bit over each type of models.

I hope this clears things up ?

 

wow Tonvic, this is the monster thread