Hi, MB experts. I have just joined the forum. Two or three days ago I posted, as some of you may know (Hi, K-A), on the Bimmerfest the following:

"need to order, please help decide

I tested both last Saturday. Superb acceleration and handling. Practically identical behavior. Except: MB's steering feels a bit "lighter" but its ride on NYC roads is very smooth. It kinda "absorbs" potholes and other imperfections of the road. same monthly lease payments . My concerns ref F10 are the forums' constant and valid negative comments about run-flat 19" wheels. On the other hand, 550's multicontour driver seat provides a more refined and pleasant support for the back.

BMW 550iX
Space Gray
Black Dakota leather
Cold weather
Convenience package
M sport
HUD
Side and Top cameras
Premium sound
Sunshades

MB E550
Palladium silver
Black leather
Airmatic suspension
Wood steering Wheel
P1 & P2
Active Multicontour Seat
Panorama sunroof
Split folding rear seats
18" AMG wheels
includes free 3-year maintenance"

The Bimmerfest has basically recognised that both vehicles are very good and it's a matter of personal preference.

What would your advice be?

Appreciate in advance your responses...

 

Hello again, Tonvic!

Seems to me, based off of your sentiments on the Bimmer Board, that the comfort and better ride of the E might suite you and the NYC roads better. Can't remember but it seemed that you liked the E's interior, and do remember that you said you like the E's exterior styling more. That leaves the BMW's handling and performance as its strongest points in pulling you in, but as you said, you find them comparable. To top it off, the W212 is much more reliable car than the F10. The F10 does have overall more advanced tech than the W212, but to someone like me, who doesn't hold Tech up to the utmost degree, both are adequate enough (F10's screen and iDrive is far more advanced, and complicated), with the E's simplicity working for it in the reliability department.

Like I wrote over there, the E's styling, M-B heritage being spoken so well through the W212's character, the interior ambiance and overall emotion of the car, along with the more luxurious/comfortable drive are what sided me with the E. But the F10 is really a great car as well, with a lot of strong points. And as V8's, both will be plenty powerful.

If you haven't yet, make sure you take a good drive in both, and the truth should come out (you'll probably know which one speaks to you more, gets your blood flowing, etc). Good luck in whichever you choose.

 

[quote=Tonvic;4917878] My concerns ref F10 are the forums' constant and valid negative comments about run-flat 19" wheels. quote]

I sure do dislike run flats, I'll never own another car with them. The noise and harsh ride were a real turn off for me. (They were on a Lexus GS350 btw).

 

'space grey' and 'Black Dakoda Leather' really sound stupid, just my worthless thought...

btw: what other car compaines are putting cameras on the sides and top? just wondering

 

Thank you again, K-A, your thoughts expressed at the Bimmerfest have shall I say "energized" many.

 

Maybe you just need to get both! (I know the feeling, lol).

 

My better part has hardly agreed to one .

 

"Space gray" is pretty close to a battleship gray with just a hint of metallic. Looks nice in a showroom but a bit bland in anything but sunshine.

I think the term Dakota leather is based upon the fact that it is highly textured as opposed to the "near nappa" found in most other cars. It wears fairly well but is more difficult to clean than nappa.

I think Infiniti is the other car company that puts cameras in the mirrors and then computer generates a "top view" of the car. A bit gimmicky until you get used to it but it does help with tight parking.

 

I remember seeing your post on Bimmerfest and noted the underlying current of looking down on the MB. All the Bimmerfest forums have the tendency of looking down on you if you haven't been "drinking enough of the BMW Kool-aid"

That said, each car has advantages and disadvantages. The MBs advantages and disadvantages come from not being on the bleeding edge of technology as the BMW.

My take on advantages and downsides:

BMW

Technology - side and top view, soft closing doors etc (you didn't specify that your car had the tech package and premium, but it must with the HUD) The nav is head and shoulders above the MB in user friendliness and BMW's iDrive is tied with Audi's MMI for ease of use - something that cannot be said for the COMAND (hell, MB can't even spell Command right )

Handling - along with the electronic gee-whiz damping controls and the big engine, the car will easily out handle the E550 (and possibly the AMG)

Included maintenance - the BMW includes all of the required maintenance including wiper blades and brakes for 4 years/50k. Any added MB maintenance will not include brakes.

MB

Ride - the ride of the MB is far, far better than that of the BMW. Even when fitted with 18" wheels and the Sport pack, the ride is luxurious compared to the quite punishing ride of the M-Sport combined with those outrageously horrible Goodyear LS2 19" "maypop" wheels/tires on anything but the smoothest of roads.

I would NEVER consider a 550i MSport for NY roads. You'll need the wheel and tire insurance - on a very regular basis even if you go to another brand of tire. Ultra low profile and Kabul like roads don't go together.

Comfort - see above

Reliability - MB for the win. As I said in another post, BMW has this unfortunate habit of providing the US market with bleeding edge technology that doesn't play well with US fuels.

The high pressure fuel pump issue which to date isn't resolved (after 5 years) and their introduction of start/stop technology.

The significantly higher failure rate in the US of the HPFP can really only be attributed to US fuels. While other countries have seen HPFP failures, the rate of failure is insignificant in all other countries.

While start/stop technology has been around since the 80's (didn't work well then with carburetors) and has been used for the last few years in Europe very successfully, the effects of start/stop and US fuels on catalytic converters is untested and unknown. Will we have premature catalytic converter failures just outside the emissions warranty (or even within it?) Nobody knows for sure which is one reason why other manufacturers haven't rushed to implement it here. It is a great way to save fuel and pretty seamless to the driver, but the downsides could prove inconvenient at best and expensive at worst.

I've owned pre-Ford Jaguars, Rovers and oddball cars (I owned a GMC Typhoon in Germany with virtually no dealer support even possible)but my 335xi has to be the most unreliable cars I've ever owned. I would love to be able to slide into a 535xi, know where all the controls are, look at all the gee-whiz stuff and marvel at the handling dynamics on a winding country road but the frequent dealer visits over niggling problems that are endemic to BMW and cannot be resolved don't make the ownership experience pleasant.

Let's not even talk about the LS2 19" tires fitted to the 535/550 Sport/M-Sport versions.

I was soooo close to a 2012 5 series - great trade for my 335, good price on the new car and optioned pretty much as I wanted it (white/cinnamon, premium, tech, cold weather [heated everything plus folding seats] and Sport. Sitting in the dealer's office I asked myself "do I really want to do this all over again?" and walked away.

Coming from a Volvo, the OP knows about Volvo problems but not about BMW problems. If he did then he wouldn't consider anything but a base 5 series without any of the fancy doo-dads that'll cause problems down the road - like bigger engines with turbos.

Just a perusal of the two forums speaks volumes. The BMW forums are filled with serious complaints that involve the car breaking down on the side of the road while the MB forums have complaints abouts rattles, squeaks and questions about how to doo stuff that the manual doesn't clearly explain.

Make no mistake, the 5 series is a wonderful car when running properly (just like early English two seater sports cars) and there are many things that I'll miss about BMW - the iDrive, nav and the cruise control with auto braking to keep your set speed even when going down hills but I'd much rather drive a car without that, but also without monthly visits to the dealership.

 

Agree on so many levels. While I have never owned a BMW, my boss has had several in the last 10 years and he is CONSTANTLY in the shop. I mean, ALL the damn time. No car is worth that kind of experience as there is no amount of free bagels to make it worth that headache. I love BMWs and think they are great cars but reliability is something you pay for in a luxury vehicle imo. Why pay more to have more problems?? Seems completely backwards.

 

My dealer (we won't go there) doesn't even do anything but free coffee from one of those 30 cup jugs. They have a "pay as you go" smoothie and speciality coffee bar though. My wife's Honda dealer has a single cup coffee maker, pastries and snacks depending on the time of day including sodas and proper full size candy bars. I'd bet I could get $25 worth of free food for the $25 oil change.

That's one of the reasons that I was considering an Acura. Reliability and good to go for a few hundred thousand miles without problems.

Your point is very well taken. Neither my 335 (nor your boss' car, are unusual cases. Most cars have a rash of minor problems that stop just short of being "lemonable" yet are very frustrating. The draw is, of course, a fantastic car when everything is working as intended.

 

It's funny to me about how biased folks can be. My experience with Volvo's has always been great. I traded an S80 T6 on my E350 Bluetec, keeping my fingers crossed that the Benz would be as trouble free as the S80. It is all about managing expectations. If you expect perfection, you will probably be disappointed in anything you buy.

 

So true. My Volvo experiences have always been positive too, but you do hear stories.

I went into the BMW purchase with my eyes open. After having the Jags without major issues, I figured that I might have a blip or two, but when I had virtually each and every reported BMW problem in the first two years of ownership, I figured that I'm done with BMW until there are reports that the issues are resolved.

Clearly, the same holds true for people that owned early 200x MBs with the brake by wire and other problems - you got a bad one of those and you ain't buying MB for a while.

Right now, however, it looks like MB has their act together while BMW is still working through US fuel related issues. If I was back in Germany I'd own a nice 5 series diesel right about now.

 

If you are driving in NYC, stay away from low profile tires. While my car was in NYC, I had two actual wheel failures due to potholes. Since dumping the low profile tires, no more tire failure issues (knock on wood..)

 

Note taken with appreciation

 

I know. BTW, Kabul roads are better than those in NYC.

 

Interesting. I have owned several recent BMWs including an 535xi, X5, and 335i. All cars were 3 year leases. None of the cars were ever in the shop for ANY reason other than routine maintenance - which was always FREE.

My 2010 MB E350 was only 4 months old when it died on the way back from skiing and had to be towed. Faulty engine module that took a week to replace.

 

Yes they are. A sad state of affairs. And we're dumping millions into rebuilding roads in Kabul.

Been there, got the scars, now my wife's there so that some other poor guy can be home for Christmas with his kids.

 

So how come you're driving a Benz now? (not meant in a nasty manner, really curious.)

 

I don't doubt it one bit. It's difficult to quantify what brand is more reliable based on personal experiences. I do know however, reliability ratings for BMW and MB are quite different in recent years with BMW being quite low and MB usually in the top 5.

 

FWIW,
My wife is currently driving a 2011 E550 4Matic and i have a 2004 E55 AMG. Even though i love the ridiculous amount of power my E55 has, i find myself wanting to drive her car every chance i get. Unless you are taking your car to the track, i see no point in buying a 5-Series.

A few weeks back i test drove the new 4.6L in a CLS & it made my decision real easy....my E55 is for sale & my new 2012 E550 4Matic will be here in 6 weeks. I can't wait!

I am seriously biased, as i sell MB's for a living, but these past 6 months, i am getting more and more BMW drivers coming in & converting to Benzes.

Buy the E550!!!

 

When I was living in Germany I knew the owner of Jaguar dealer fairly well so I ended up buying two new Jags (a XJ12HE VdP and a XJ-S12) figuring that they were really problematic then he'd take care of me. I owned the XJ for 10 years and put about 200k miles on it with nothing other than periodic maintenance and a few bits here and there (oil leaks - gaskets) but nothing major. I had the XJ-S for about 3 years before it was stolen and had no issues there either.

My Audi had no issues in 100k miles. I even avoided the typical control arm issues that plagued virtually every A6/S6 of that series - routine maintenance only and one valley pan gasket.

With the BMW, I got each and every problem that any BMW owner has ever thought about complaining of.

I guess it is the luck of the draw, but BMW reliability has taken a huge hit with the HPFP and other fuel related issues, while MB reliability has been improving.

 

I had a 2004 VW Passat diesel. Everyone warned me about VW quality. I had zero problems in well over 120K. Volvo's with no problems and Audi's with no problems, despite all of the horror stories. I now have an E350 bluets that seems to not have the issues I read about here. It truly is the luck of the draw I think. The worst car I have ever owned was a Honda Prelude with four wheel steering. Problems from day one, and that was back when hondas were "The car that sells itself".

 

How did you find the F10 power steering? A customer whose E39 530i I have serviced for many years recently took European delivery of a 2012 550i. I don't think he likes the new energy saving power steering much. While he didn't come out and say it, I'm not sure he would do it over again.

After owning BMW's since the mid '70s, my wife and I are firmly in the MB camp. As a shop owner that services only BMW and MB, I just see too much evidence that BMW has lost their way. In a nut shell, when it comes to BMW........
Not my money!

 

Thanks to all of you I am being converted into the MB camp. But more I read here more I am asking myself a question: why do I need a E550 2012 (see the O/P). Will E350 (similarly configured 4-matic) be enough? Yes, I realize the HP difference, that feeling of smoothness and ability to accelerate immediately. Fuel economy is better but I won't have airmatic suspension.

Can you, please talk me out from purchasing E550? Money is a factor but is not a decisive one. Will be doing 15-20% NYC and the rest is highways.