hyperion667

wtf kia????????

damn that thing is ugly......looks like some BMW in there too, actually I think I see some Fisker too, wtf????

damn those led's!!!!

K-A

LOL. I was all happy that they "left M-B alone" until I saw them take the sacred LED's!

Yeah, it does have some Fisker indeed. It really has a bunch of everything, typically. You can never outshine the OG's. Watch how much more "authentic" all the cars this Kia copies look when they're next to it, just like M-B's are NIGHT AND DAY with the Hyundai's (Genesis) that try and imitate them.

Official pics. To be honest, the most I see in this car is new BUICK'S. That's not even meant as a diss, it's honestly the most prevalent styling I see here:

RNBRAD

Wow, looks like a hybrid between Lexus and Beemer to me. Not too bad though.

K-A

I see: Buick, Jag XF, Different BMW's, some Fisker, OG W212 Hockey Stick LED's, Lexus. I might be forgetting something.

Wig

This looks pure BMW to me. They've even had the cheek to copy the 'kidney' grills.

The rear looks a lot like a 7-Series.

Hyundai and Kia are doing well. They don't need to copy the Germans.

Raymond Lee

Looks like the K9 is in to fight with Honda Accord, Toyota Avalon, Buick and maybe BMW 3 series but not with MBZ. When you drive this car, it is going to be an eye opener for $30K range car.

steelgrey

Come on it's the BMW 6 series just remove the center pinched section of the grill. It's got the body line ending in the chrome piece in the front fender. Same lower grill shape. Same hood shape. Same overall look to the rear section. Same side silloutte. It is a blatant knock off and the thing that I find offensive about Hyundai/Kia. If you take the time to read 220s rather long post about Hyundai/Kia as a company you will realize how they are offering so much for so little in the Genesis. Yes as is the norm (the Genesis is built in Korea)..it is by using Korean workers. I don't know how much a german auto factory worker makes but, I am sure it is significantly more than a Korean worker.

220S

How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederic...twice-as-much/

"In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. Yet Germany’s big three car companies—BMW, Daimler (Mercedes-Benz), and Volkswagen—are very profitable."

RNBRAD

Like to see statistics regarding how many autoworkers there are per car manufactured or cost/profit margins. Maybe Benz is twice as efficient allowing employees more incentives or sharing profits among the group instead of mainly the CEO's Our automakers were getting huge bonuses regardless of productivity. Not much incentive there to make a "better" product, the CEO's win either way.

El Cid

GM made the largest profit in its history in 2011. So, apparently American companies are selling cars again. In fact, GM, Chrysler and Ford are considering reopening closed plants and hiring more workers.
Of course, rising gas prices may take care of that.
Regardless, Daimler, BMW and VW prices are far higher in US than American or Asian cars. That's how they pay their workers so much. Same applies to cost of parts.
The new made in America Passat has a much lower price than in past because VW had priced itself out of its American market.
BTW, I find those figures suspicious anyway.

RNBRAD

Are we sure they aren't counting "bailout" money as a profit?

ttoE550

Sadly, they are. They got to keep their pre-bankruptcy tax credits for losses. If I remember the WSJ article correctly, this is normally not allowed when there is a change in control, but special dispensation was given to GM because its majority owners are the Treasury and ... guess who? ... the UAW. Yesterday's WSJ I think.

El Cid

Bailout money already paid back, so it cannot be counted as profit. As with any American corp., profits/taxes/credits/etc. are all confusing. However, gist is that GM is selling cars and making lots of money.
BTW, supposedly BMW exports more automobiles than any other manufacturer in US. All from its Greer (Greenville) SC plant.

dfordham

OT: While the bailout loan may have been paid back, the taxpayer is still underwater on the stock the government took in the new GM. Of the $50 billion total bailout, only about $7 billion was in the form of a loan. The rest was in stock that the government bought.

For the government to break even the price had to rise to $53. For the last year the stock's high was about $32 and yesterday's close was $26.64. This puts us billions in the red.

Sorry for this being OT, but I think people should be reminded of the totallity of the deal with GM. The GM loan payback has been hailed but the stock fiasco has been swept under the rug.

I'm not arguing for or against the bailout. I just think everyone needs to know what its real cost was so they can decide for themselves whether or not it was worth it.

Regards,
Don

ngerstman

They also stole away the rights of the bondholders when the Government seized the company and crammed a settlement at cents on the dollar while giving a big chunk of the company to the UAW!!! In a normal bankruptcy and reorganization the senior lenders(bondholders) would have received most of the equity in the company. The socialist administration chose to treat the UAW in a unique way and trample on the rights of bondholders. It was the wages and benefits and work rules of the UAW that was mostly responsible for the demise of the US auto industry(along with relying too much on the SUV). Obama doesn't believe that the rules of law apply to him and those he favors. Regards. Ned.

Raymond Lee

If GM made true profit, I salute to them. But they have a long to go to stay competitive with foreign cars in terms of quality, design and reliability.I just hope they to stay awake for at least 10 more years.

ImInPA

GM is building a decent vehicle today. I like the Buicks, and Caddys. They look good and the interiors are very nicely done. GM is even sourcing the same manufacturer as Mercedes for their higher end interiors. Give the General a chance.

El Cid

Actually, if the government (under George W. Bush) had not stepped in, the bondholders, etc. would have received nothing because it would have gone into total bankruptcy. The UAW members gave up medical benefits, pay raises, part of their wages, etc., etc. as part of the deal. They also had to take stock which could end up being worth nothing if GM failed.
While the UAW may have had too high benefits and wages in the past, the GM boards, CEO's, Presidents, ad infinitum all agreed to every one of those issues. Also, the stockholders and bondholders kept the CEO's and boards that agreed to the high wages and benefits. Don't forget the high bonuses and salaries of management either.
GM could have said NO, let the UAW strike until a fair settlement was reached, but management's position was we'll skimp on quality and pass the costs on to the consumers and dealers.
BTW, when you purchase bonds, stocks, etc., they ALWAYS say "all your money may be lost." Cavet Emptor.

steelgrey

Think maybe it's time to get back to the subject of this thread. To me politics just aren't appropriate on this forum. My .02!!!

K-A

Yes, enough Politics, it's corrupting the world and distracting everyone from what's really important: Action, reality! What's best for civilization as a whole, sans one-sided "follow thy rule book" biases.

Both sides are like sh*t. One can be more pungent than the other at times, but they both, by nature, stink.

Better to just argue M-B VS BMW.

steelgrey

On no!!! For once I totally agree with you.

Raymond Lee

steegrey
+1
Let us go back to our interest on our E350 gas or BlueTec. I expect lot more stories on E350 from all forum members.