E-Class 2nd most Dependable Premium Midsize Car.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
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From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
LOL. I was all happy that they "left M-B alone" until I saw them take the sacred LED's! 
Yeah, it does have some Fisker indeed. It really has a bunch of everything, typically. You can never outshine the OG's. Watch how much more "authentic" all the cars this Kia copies look when they're next to it, just like M-B's are NIGHT AND DAY with the Hyundai's (Genesis) that try and imitate them.
Official pics. To be honest, the most I see in this car is new BUICK'S. That's not even meant as a diss, it's honestly the most prevalent styling I see here:
Yeah, it does have some Fisker indeed. It really has a bunch of everything, typically. You can never outshine the OG's. Watch how much more "authentic" all the cars this Kia copies look when they're next to it, just like M-B's are NIGHT AND DAY with the Hyundai's (Genesis) that try and imitate them.
Official pics. To be honest, the most I see in this car is new BUICK'S. That's not even meant as a diss, it's honestly the most prevalent styling I see here:
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I see: Buick, Jag XF, Different BMW's, some Fisker, OG W212 Hockey Stick LED's, Lexus. I might be forgetting something. 
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 325
Likes: 18
From: Canada
W213, C238
This looks pure BMW to me. They've even had the cheek to copy the 'kidney' grills.
The rear looks a lot like a 7-Series.
Hyundai and Kia are doing well. They don't need to copy the Germans.
The rear looks a lot like a 7-Series.
Hyundai and Kia are doing well. They don't need to copy the Germans.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 437
Likes: 4
Lexus LS 400, 2008 BMW 528i, 2014 e250 BlueTec
Looks like the K9 is in to fight with Honda Accord, Toyota Avalon, Buick and maybe BMW 3 series but not with MBZ. When you drive this car, it is going to be an eye opener for $30K range car.
Last edited by Raymond Lee; Feb 28, 2012 at 09:36 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 425
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E350 Coupe
Come on it's the BMW 6 series just remove the center pinched section of the grill. It's got the body line ending in the chrome piece in the front fender. Same lower grill shape. Same hood shape. Same overall look to the rear section. Same side silloutte. It is a blatant knock off and the thing that I find offensive about Hyundai/Kia. If you take the time to read 220s rather long post about Hyundai/Kia as a company you will realize how they are offering so much for so little in the Genesis. Yes as is the norm (the Genesis is built in Korea)..it is by using Korean workers. I don't know how much a german auto factory worker makes but, I am sure it is significantly more than a Korean worker.
Last edited by steelgrey; Feb 28, 2012 at 12:10 PM.
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederic...twice-as-much/
"In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. Yet Germany’s big three car companies—BMW, Daimler (Mercedes-Benz), and Volkswagen—are very profitable."
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Super Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 761
Likes: 23
From: Oklahoma
W211 E320 & W212 E550
Like to see statistics regarding how many autoworkers there are per car manufactured or cost/profit margins. Maybe Benz is twice as efficient allowing employees more incentives or sharing profits among the group instead of mainly the CEO's 
Our automakers were getting huge bonuses regardless of productivity. Not much incentive there to make a "better" product, the CEO's win either way.
Our automakers were getting huge bonuses regardless of productivity. Not much incentive there to make a "better" product, the CEO's win either way.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 160
From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
GM made the largest profit in its history in 2011. So, apparently American companies are selling cars again. In fact, GM, Chrysler and Ford are considering reopening closed plants and hiring more workers.
Of course, rising gas prices may take care of that.
Regardless, Daimler, BMW and VW prices are far higher in US than American or Asian cars. That's how they pay their workers so much. Same applies to cost of parts.
The new made in America Passat has a much lower price than in past because VW had priced itself out of its American market.
BTW, I find those figures suspicious anyway.
Of course, rising gas prices may take care of that.
Regardless, Daimler, BMW and VW prices are far higher in US than American or Asian cars. That's how they pay their workers so much. Same applies to cost of parts.
The new made in America Passat has a much lower price than in past because VW had priced itself out of its American market.
BTW, I find those figures suspicious anyway.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 761
Likes: 23
From: Oklahoma
W211 E320 & W212 E550
GM made the largest profit in its history in 2011. So, apparently American companies are selling cars again. In fact, GM, Chrysler and Ford are considering reopening closed plants and hiring more workers.
Of course, rising gas prices may take care of that.
Regardless, Daimler, BMW and VW prices are far higher in US than American or Asian cars. That's how they pay their workers so much. Same applies to cost of parts.
The new made in America Passat has a much lower price than in past because VW had priced itself out of its American market.
BTW, I find those figures suspicious anyway.
Of course, rising gas prices may take care of that.
Regardless, Daimler, BMW and VW prices are far higher in US than American or Asian cars. That's how they pay their workers so much. Same applies to cost of parts.
The new made in America Passat has a much lower price than in past because VW had priced itself out of its American market.
BTW, I find those figures suspicious anyway.
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 640
Likes: 6
2015 GL450
Sadly, they are. They got to keep their pre-bankruptcy tax credits for losses. If I remember the WSJ article correctly, this is normally not allowed when there is a change in control, but special dispensation was given to GM because its majority owners are the Treasury and ... guess who? ... the UAW. Yesterday's WSJ I think.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 160
From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
No
Bailout money already paid back, so it cannot be counted as profit. As with any American corp., profits/taxes/credits/etc. are all confusing. However, gist is that GM is selling cars and making lots of money.
BTW, supposedly BMW exports more automobiles than any other manufacturer in US. All from its Greer (Greenville) SC plant.
BTW, supposedly BMW exports more automobiles than any other manufacturer in US. All from its Greer (Greenville) SC plant.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 561
Likes: 2
From: New Mexico
2014 E350, 2012 SL550
OT
Bailout money already paid back, so it cannot be counted as profit. As with any American corp., profits/taxes/credits/etc. are all confusing. However, gist is that GM is selling cars and making lots of money.
BTW, supposedly BMW exports more automobiles than any other manufacturer in US. All from its Greer (Greenville) SC plant.
BTW, supposedly BMW exports more automobiles than any other manufacturer in US. All from its Greer (Greenville) SC plant.
For the government to break even the price had to rise to $53. For the last year the stock's high was about $32 and yesterday's close was $26.64. This puts us billions in the red.
Sorry for this being OT, but I think people should be reminded of the totallity of the deal with GM. The GM loan payback has been hailed but the stock fiasco has been swept under the rug.
I'm not arguing for or against the bailout. I just think everyone needs to know what its real cost was so they can decide for themselves whether or not it was worth it.
Regards,
Don
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 908
Likes: 19
From: New Jersey
2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
OT: While the bailout loan may have been paid back, the taxpayer is still underwater on the stock the government took in the new GM. Of the $50 billion total bailout, only about $7 billion was in the form of a loan. The rest was in stock that the government bought.
For the government to break even the price had to rise to $53. For the last year the stock's high was about $32 and yesterday's close was $26.64. This puts us billions in the red.
Sorry for this being OT, but I think people should be reminded of the totallity of the deal with GM. The GM loan payback has been hailed but the stock fiasco has been swept under the rug.
I'm not arguing for or against the bailout. I just think everyone needs to know what its real cost was so they can decide for themselves whether or not it was worth it.
Regards,
Don
For the government to break even the price had to rise to $53. For the last year the stock's high was about $32 and yesterday's close was $26.64. This puts us billions in the red.
Sorry for this being OT, but I think people should be reminded of the totallity of the deal with GM. The GM loan payback has been hailed but the stock fiasco has been swept under the rug.
I'm not arguing for or against the bailout. I just think everyone needs to know what its real cost was so they can decide for themselves whether or not it was worth it.
Regards,
Don
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 437
Likes: 4
Lexus LS 400, 2008 BMW 528i, 2014 e250 BlueTec
If GM made true profit, I salute to them. But they have a long to go to stay competitive with foreign cars in terms of quality, design and reliability.I just hope they to stay awake for at least 10 more years.
Last edited by Raymond Lee; Mar 2, 2012 at 02:08 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 20
From: Central Pennsylvania
2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
GM is building a decent vehicle today. I like the Buicks, and Caddys. They look good and the interiors are very nicely done. GM is even sourcing the same manufacturer as Mercedes for their higher end interiors. Give the General a chance.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 160
From: Southeastern USA
2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Not true
They also stole away the rights of the bondholders when the Government seized the company and crammed a settlement at cents on the dollar while giving a big chunk of the company to the UAW!!! In a normal bankruptcy and reorganization the senior lenders(bondholders) would have received most of the equity in the company. The socialist administration chose to treat the UAW in a unique way and trample on the rights of bondholders. It was the wages and benefits and work rules of the UAW that was mostly responsible for the demise of the US auto industry(along with relying too much on the SUV). Obama doesn't believe that the rules of law apply to him and those he favors. Regards. Ned.
While the UAW may have had too high benefits and wages in the past, the GM boards, CEO's, Presidents, ad infinitum all agreed to every one of those issues. Also, the stockholders and bondholders kept the CEO's and boards that agreed to the high wages and benefits. Don't forget the high bonuses and salaries of management either.
GM could have said NO, let the UAW strike until a fair settlement was reached, but management's position was we'll skimp on quality and pass the costs on to the consumers and dealers.
BTW, when you purchase bonds, stocks, etc., they ALWAYS say "all your money may be lost." Cavet Emptor.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 24
From: Earth
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Yes, enough Politics, it's corrupting the world and distracting everyone from what's really important: Action, reality! What's best for civilization as a whole, sans one-sided "follow thy rule book" biases.
Both sides are like sh*t. One can be more pungent than the other at times, but they both, by nature, stink.
Better to just argue M-B VS BMW.
Both sides are like sh*t. One can be more pungent than the other at times, but they both, by nature, stink.
Better to just argue M-B VS BMW.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
E350 Coupe
Yes, enough Politics, it's corrupting the world and distracting everyone from what's really important: Action, reality! What's best for civilization as a whole, sans one-sided "follow thy rule book" biases.
Both sides are like sh*t. One can be more pungent than the other at times, but they both, by nature, stink.
Better to just argue M-B VS BMW.
Both sides are like sh*t. One can be more pungent than the other at times, but they both, by nature, stink.
Better to just argue M-B VS BMW.
