I understand this, but, it was mentioned above. In this thread, I did not want to get all bogged down with facts or anything like that.

 

You're right, what was I thinking.

Facts don't belong in this forum.

 

Don't forget, he's admitted frustratedly many times that he was "forced upon" the Luxury version when he really wanted the Sport, and clearly has developed a psychological disdain and resentment that is taken out on the car.

You'd wonder how the E-Class is the best selling car in an extremely competitive Class, even with lower HP/MPG ratings, sometimes, wouldn't ya.

 

Thanks Don. So many facts are missing from this tale of woe. The original build date being one of them. I checked mine on Day 1. It was spot on. Still is.

Wayne

 

It's illegal to void your warranty folks...get it serviced where you want

 

You are 100% correct...it is a violation of federal law to require someone to have service done by the manufacturer in order to maintain the warrantee. The legal obligation is that all of the items listed as required in the service manual are done...by you or anyone..on the schedule indicated.

However, if you are leasing the car, Mercedes (or anyone) can, as a requirement of the lease, require you to have the car serviced at a specific place, etc...because they own the car, not you.

 

All product warranties can be voided if instructions are not followed. The MB Operators manual states in several places that warranty can be voided if service not performed to MB Service Center standards.
You can get an independent or even yourself to perform the work and dealer can accept that as meeting the standard. But will he? Will MB if it is a major (expensive) component?
Do you really want to go through the hassle of trying to get dealer to do something as warranty when you have been bypassing him for service? If he denies it, don't expect MB to back it. Their general policy is to let the dealer make the determination.
Personally I'd rather not take the chance. $50,000+ car, requires premium gas and gets relatively low MPG. Why buy it if you are not going to get best maintenance?

 

You are combining issues....

1)It is not legally required that you have your car maintained by a mercedes dealer to keep your warranty valid.

2)You may choose to have it done by the dealer to be sure that there are no warranty questions

 

Law does say you can get maintenance done anywhere or do it yourself. However, dealer (authorized MB Service Center) must agree that any needed repairs are covered by warranty if a warranty issue arises. AND MB has to agree also or else dealer is on hook for costs.
Problem is that dealer can say maintenance not done correctly or timely, inadequate documentation of maintenance, servicer damaged a component, etc.
Then vehicle owner is in situation of trying to get dealer to do the work under warranty or get MB to agree to pay the costs.

BTW (OK, 2nd issue), every vehicle I have ever owned (lots of them) has always required oil change at XX mileage OR xx months, whichever comes first. Until warranty expires I adhere to the schedule. After that, its my cost if something goes wrong, but I still don't go many months over the recommended.
Years ago my father had a car that he very seldom drove and he changed oil every 5,000 miles. He got in car one day and it didn't run right. He checked oil and it was thin as water because it was well over a year old, but only had 3,000 miles on it.

 

Just had my oil changed by an independent.

I would have preferred to had it done at the dealer but they insist on making an appointment and I cannot plan my life/work around a dealership.

 

One point not mentioned is that the burden of proof falls on the dealer/manufacturer. The dealer cannot simply "say" the work was not done correctly. They have to prove it was not done correctly. Also, should you use an aftermarket oil filter that is oem compatible, the dealer would have to prove the failure of the part in question. The Mangusson Moss act is a good piece of consumer protection legislation.

 

If you bought the car at the dealer, loaner is always free.
I would go back and ask for a refund.

 

I looked and cannot find anything in the warranty or owner's manual that guarantees an alternative vehicle when yours is in for service. No terms or conditions for a rental. I think it is a dealer's option and most supply one simply because at this level they are almost mandatory to compete.

 

Loaner vehicles are at the discretion of the the dealership. In my area, ALL luxury car dealers offer loaners.

 

they should be.....I once had to have a loaner when I had my volvo: besides being the worst car ever, they also dropped me off at a car rental place to rent my own 'loaner' lol

 

In my area, all Luxury car dealerships offer loaners. They have to to be competitive. My MB dealership has always provided me with loaner vehicles, quite often an E similar to mine (not diesel though). The dealership experience is important to me when I buy a car. Nothing worse than feeling jerked around and nickled and dimed.

 

plus one brother

 

FYI: Talked to a nice lady at my dealer today and she promised me next time I need an oil change she will make sure I would not need to make an appointment.

 

I think one of the issues with M-B service is that it involves a lot more than just changing oil, so they take a long time to do it-even with pre-paid maintenance. This is one reason why they want appointments.
If no appointment, how long will you have to wait? Have had Toyota truck, SUV, cars, etc. for years. Dealerships used to offer oil & filter change and 28 point inspection (basically the 6 months services) in 30 minutes or less without an appointment-or free. They no longer do this because the no appointment wait times had gotten to be so long. Now they prefer appointments for everything (and I do too.)
In order to get you out quickly without an appointment, will they have to delay people who do have appointments?
Personally I call for appointments as my dealer makes them at my convenience. Of course, he also provides a loaner so I can go home or about my business.

 

I am new here so I may not know the lay of the land so to speak. I just bought my first MB, an e350 and I absolutely love it. I didn't use to understand what the difference is, but now I do. Having said this I have to chime in here.

First, all dealers mark up their service, been doin it for ever, it just is what it is. There is a value to what they provide in convenience, tracking (they did it so they can't blame someone else and resale value - here is the proof that I meticulously took care of my car), peace of mind and class. I am willing to pay for this, BUT within reason. I haven't seen a "routine maintenance" bill yet as I just bought the car but from what I have see here and what I have read in stuff from MB it really looks like they are going overboard here (and not just a little bit).

-Service A 10k mi:
Oil and filter change, a 15 point check (things like tire pressure, washer fluid, brakes etc), resetting the maintenance counter. Price: $200-$300
-Service B 20k mi. == Service A + cabin filter and brake fluid change. Price: ~$600?
-30K Service A
-40K service B + air filter and tranny fluid/filter $900?

Is this correct? Please let me know here because I can't remember for sure.
Is it right? If the numbers I have put up there are correct I'd say a resounding NO.

Someone here said "It's a $60,000 car; spending $300 a year to get it serviced shouldn't be a problem." my reply would be its not $300/year, and shouldn't it depend on what you are getting for your money? I don't care how much I spend for something, I expect to know what I am paying for. I work for my money, I'll spend it but I won't throw it away. Its logic like this that makes the prices get out of control in the first place. Doesn't it bother people to know that the sales guys think/say things like "how much can we get from this guy" (although I think that words that they use are a bit different).

Now a lot of this is just what I have seen in various posts so if I am wrong please let me know.

 

sorry, fat fingered the post button before I finished.

Someone on this thread said that he got an oil change (and the 15point check) for $89 but they wouldn't reset the maintenance counter. I'll get to the maintenance counter in a minute, but can we use this to set the price for an oil change at an MB dealer?... ok $100, $110? The parts don't cost them much, Autozone has the oil at $9 a quart and they are making money. What does that leave? $200ish for what? A 15point check (something that makes them money because when they find something they can charge for it!). Every place, including Jiffy lube does a 15 point check! I am not advocating using places like jiffy lube or anything, but when is too much?

When real competitors can do the same work for about $100, 200% more is just gouging.

sure $300 to someone that can afford a MB isn't that much. but still, I look at the invoices... you wouldn't spend $60 on a pizza would you?

The funny thing is that the service A isn't that bad! how much is a cabin filter and a brake fluid change? I can get the brake fluid change for $120 at a place down the street from a guy that is trustworthy.... How about the transmission fluid/filter?

Back to that maintenance counter..... My wife drives a Volvo, and their maintenance light is just as annoying as I would imagine the Merc's would be. I almost lost it when the dealer said that it would be $50 to reset it (forgot to get it reset at the last oil change). I thought that I read somewhere here that someone got charged $150 do do it on his MB. From the guy with the $89 oil change earlier that doesn't sound too far off. why is that acceptable?

The problem is that before I did enough reading here and found out what they were doing, I bought the flipp'n pre-paid maintenance when I bought the car! I didn't pay the ridiculous $1300 for it but still, the price was based on what they are charging. So I saved 50% off of something that was marked up what 400-450%.

Again if someone has more accurate numbers or procedures please let me know. At least it will make me feel better about what I spent.

 

Warranty and service implications are different across the globe, with not only Mercedes but 99% of all major manufacturers. So you cannot just make broad statements as to what is good and bad or a rip off!!
Main dealer servicing will Always be more expensive than an independent. And you cannot state that independents give an inferior service, in my experience they are often much better than many of the main dealers, maybe as customers, we subconsciously expect less so are not disappointed??? Because the price is a clear saving on the main dealer. My experience of main dealers has not been good at all, BMW and Mercedes!
Here in the UK warranties last 3 years, but if you maintain the car with Mercedes you can have lifetime European Brake down cover, plus very few arguments if you have a corrosion issue. Some times once the car is out of warranty but has been serviced by the main dealer, then they are far more receptive if a major item has failed, often giving significant discounts.
I for my part have paid for an extended maintenance package (even though historically I have maintained my car to a higher standard than the manufacturers requirements).
What I have found is that in many cases (including my last BMW 6 series) is that these type of cars can develop major potential problems which can lead to very expensive repairs, in its case a £2 grommett which leads to a failure in the coolant system necessitating a £9k repair as the engine has to be split in two to replace the part, or the transmissions pans which are made of plastic which crack over time and lead to leaking transmission fluids and failures!! (this on a car that costs £80k new). Often starting on cars as low as 50k mileage but running around 80k miles. Just check the forums to understand how common issues like these are, they never tell us this when we buy the car ???
They talk about lifetime fluids which never need changing so nobody does, but ask what they mechanically believe is a lifetime for a car and they will reluctantly tell you 100k miles. SO they are not lifetime fluids at all, it goes on!!!!!!
When I hear complaining about spending a $100 on an oil change I go deaf, what do you expect????? To make a car last and function correctly and limit the potential for a major failure you have to invest in maintenance !!!
Why don't you bleat about the major major issue with car ownership which is the manufacturers positively controlling the depreciation value of your prize possession !!!! THAT IS WORTH GOING ON ABOUT!!!!!!
PS I cannot find any threads on this issue, so it seems that losing thousands is more important than spending a couple of hundred $ on servicing IMO

 

Just to clarify things, I didn't complain about spending $100 on an oil change, I complained about spending $300 on one. Or if you prefer, spending $180ish on a 15 point check and resetting the maintenance light. More to the point I asked when is it too much? I do believe that there is value in getting things done at the dealer and I am willing to pay a premium for their service which I also stated. They set the labor rates, and they post them for everyone to see. Why is it acceptable for them to ignore them for maintenance? Sure all dealers pad their numbers to get as much as they can for the work that they do. I am not even saying that they should sit there with a stop watch or anything. I just don't think that it is acceptable to triple what reality is.

Depreciation is a great point. Here I think the market determines the resale value. I don't believe it is the same for service. I can go to an indie to get service and get essentially the same (or even better from what you said). The alternative for resale is to either buy a different car or to buy it 2 yrs old. I don't believe that increased depreciation is in MB's best interests so why would they do it. Sure they want to sell more cars, and they'll do whatever they can to do that, but how much does MB get from the sale of a used car? However gouging on service apparently is seen as acceptable (which is my complaint) so they are going to continue to do it.

 

I have been driving MB's for 30 years and I think the service pricing is reasonable. I must admit that my cars are traded fairly frequently and have never had anything other than A and B service.

On the other hand, servicing my Porsche is very expensive. I drive it approximately 3,000kms and the cost on the annual maintenance is practically double the MB. That leaves me with a bad taste every time. But then again, if you are stupid enough to buy such a useless car, you deserve to pay more. My wife describes it best. You have to hate your money to own a Porsche.

 

I also think it's "too much" (whatever that arbitrary number may be is in my head). But it's also probably in-line w/ what the other German luxury makes are charging (or apparently much less, if you look at Porsche).

I just checked the 5-yr anticipated cost of maintenance on Automobilemag.com. A 2011 5-series is actually anticipated to cost MORE than a 2011 E350, despite the fact that some of the cost on the 5-series are defrayed by "free" maintenance for a limited time. A 2011 Lexus GS will supposedly cost about $500 less to maintain over the same period, which only works out to savings of $100/yr. So while it's ridiculous to have *that* much upcharge, it also doesn't make sense (from a business perspective) for MB to charge any less than its competitors....

MB (or maybe the dealer) can actually get quite a bit for used cars, I imagine. When I was looking 1-2 yrs ago, some of the listed prices for the CPOs that were < 1 yr old was MORE than the average actual transaction price for a similarly equipped new car. If someone doesn't do their HW carefully, they could conceivably pay more for the CPO.

Additionally, when I tried to buy pre-paid maintenance after the purchase, the dealer said that pre-paid maintenance was developed mainly to ensure that leasee maintain their cars properly (presumably so that dealers could then charge a corresponding mark up for an "appropriately" maintained car.

From what's I've read here, the 3-yr pre-paid maintenance is a good value and will save you $. Don't forget that MB service stations frequently mail out coupons (at least, my nearby station does), which can save you a significant amount of $ (had you not purchased the pre-paid, which I ended up not doing, since they charge you more than if you had purchased it w/ the car).