John Krafcik and Hyundai
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
And I do agree with most of the comments about Hyundai. They make some great cars! It is not a pretty picture when a Mercedes owner looks at the list of standard features offered in a high end Hyundai and find features lacking in the MB...
Last edited by WEBSRFR; 04-19-2012 at 03:49 PM.
#27
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Late Built 2005 W-211 E-320 CDI
Today's L A Times Article on the new 2012 Azera
Read today's Los Angeles Times article by David Undercoffler about the new 2012 Azera.
Two points were made that tell that Hyundia does not learn from the previous mistakes.
Even though they downsized the engine to only 3.3 liters, and added direct injection, fuel
economy is lower now even with the new six speed transmission. That's progress?
This new model does not seem to run as well as did my 2007 with a 3.8 liter engine.
And I never got as low as only 19 mpg as did this tester.
If it had not been for the earlier cars lousy front struts, (I had the originals plus two sets
of replacements, all with different part numbers!) we would still be driving it today.
Can you say 'lemon law'?
And the new Azeras electric power sterring?
'This isn't the first time that Hyundai has brought to market a new model with a steering system
that feels unnecessarily synthetic and removed from what the front wheels are really doing.'
My advise to anyone even remotely thinking of buying any Hyundai, look for a good used
E-Class and you will not only save money, but you will have a much better car.
If you are really smart, find and buy a good clean used 2005-2006 CDI.
For less than half the price of a new Hyundai Azera, you will not only have a much better
automobile, but a car that can and does get almost double the fuel economy of the new Azera!
Stay clear of the 2007s and later, as they have DPFs. The 2010s and later models also require
Ad Blue, and they have run flat tires which make them not only ride harder,
but replacement tires are needed earlier and are more costly also.
Derrel
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
This same crap happens to Apple, and it pisses me off.
Damn, combat the REAL DEAL big guys on your own! Don't slavishly rip them off with second rate products at lower costs to trick in those who care to have the "look" but not the true genuine originality and "feel".
I just have a personal miff toward those who rip off others art. Inspiration is great! All the best art is a combination of inspirations that came before them tied together to make something unique and individual, but there's a fine line between inspiration and chinese "company" type of rip off copycat BS.
Damn, combat the REAL DEAL big guys on your own! Don't slavishly rip them off with second rate products at lower costs to trick in those who care to have the "look" but not the true genuine originality and "feel".
I just have a personal miff toward those who rip off others art. Inspiration is great! All the best art is a combination of inspirations that came before them tied together to make something unique and individual, but there's a fine line between inspiration and chinese "company" type of rip off copycat BS.
I get the fact as I design websites, graphics, etc, so I wouldn't like it if someone copied my work exactly, but to take some parts for inspiration, etc. I would view as flattery. It says...I did something right and someone loved it.
At the end of the day, Hyundai and Kia seemed to have taken cues from the competitive market, and went beyond (or attempted to) on standard features included, price, and reliability.
Don't get me wrong, I love my MB's but facts do stand that the majority of MB's are not too high on the reliability list and that to me speaks of a problem with MB (BMW, or whatever the blank to fill is). Just a thought...
Last edited by bigben320e; 04-19-2012 at 04:29 PM.
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
Read today's Los Angeles Times article by David Undercoffler about the new 2012 Azera.
Two points were made that tell that Hyundia does not learn from the previous mistakes.
Even though they downsized the engine to only 3.3 liters, and added direct injection, fuel
economy is lower now even with the new six speed transmission. That's progress?
This new model does not seem to run as well as did my 2007 with a 3.8 liter engine.
And I never got as low as only 19 mpg as did this tester.
If it had not been for the earlier cars lousy front struts, (I had the originals plus two sets
of replacements, all with different part numbers!) we would still be driving it today.
Can you say 'lemon law'?
And the new Azeras electric power sterring?
'This isn't the first time that Hyundai has brought to market a new model with a steering system
that feels unnecessarily synthetic and removed from what the front wheels are really doing.'
My advise to anyone even remotely thinking of buying any Hyundai, look for a good used
E-Class and you will not only save money, but you will have a much better car.
If you are really smart, find and buy a good clean used 2005-2006 CDI.
For less than half the price of a new Hyundai Azera, you will not only have a much better
automobile, but a car that can and does get almost double the fuel economy of the new Azera!
Stay clear of the 2007s and later, as they have DPFs. The 2010s and later models also require
Ad Blue, and they have run flat tires which make them not only ride harder,
but replacement tires are needed earlier and are more costly also.
Derrel
Hyundai can't hold a candle to Mercedes-Benz let alone be a patch on it
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
Would I trade my MB for one? No, and hell no on my CLS. Would I get one as a DD? Why not?
#31
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
If you think this Forum has quality related posts, you must not hang out on other Forums much. This place is practically mute. Check the F10 boards, the Audi boards, and even the previous Lexus GS boards if you want to see quality problems. Currently M-B is in the lead of all its competitors, save for Lexus (by a small margin now) in quality, while BMW and Audi are waaaaayy down the polls.
I think the claims of soullessness is unfounded. The quality and assembly of the Hyundais and Kias speak volumes. Imitation is the highest form of flattery perhaps, but the execution is impressive. MB copied the bangle-butt for the S class. I personally like what Hyundai and Kia are doing. They are showing how overpriced our German toys are. True, you do get a richer history with the classic marks, but, I am all for copying the good stuff. Kia and Hyundai have infused their design studios with German designers, Streyer from Audi (Kia) and I can't think of the guy Hyundai uses. They are developing their own look and I have no doubt they will hit it out of the ballpark. If Hyundai offered diesel options in the US, I would certainly consider an Equus. I am pretty certain that those knocking them have not driven them. They need to refine their suspensions a bit (like MB with the sport suspension on the E). These vehicles are the "real deal". That said, I do love my Bluetec.
I've always had an eye for the raw genuineness of a true-form, and I can see the "cheap copy version" first hand when I look at or touch one of Hyundai's true "copycat designs". For the record, not all their designs are copycat designs anymore, as they slowly but surely are creating somewhat of an identity.... but this Kia K9 is like ten steps back. It's the same with Apple. You can spec out an Android Tablet all you want, but the holistic experience and feel of the Apple one let's me know that it's of original quality.
The music industry is the best way to resolve this. Many artists sound like people you love, yet they use those influences to create something unique and original. However, those who just copy the big guy to get a quick radio hit don't last very long, and if they do, never get taken as seriously as they want.
While I understand what you are saying and I agree on some parts...didn't Apple, Microsoft, etc. all copy something off someone else? Was it not Lexus that copied some things by looking at the competition from the beginning?
I get the fact as I design websites, graphics, etc, so I wouldn't like it if someone copied my work exactly, but to take some parts for inspiration, etc. I would view as flattery. It says...I did something right and someone loved it.
At the end of the day, Hyundai and Kia seemed to have taken cues from the competitive market, and went beyond (or attempted to) on standard features included, price, and reliability.
Don't get me wrong, I love my MB's but facts do stand that the majority of MB's are not too high on the reliability list and that to me speaks of a problem with MB (BMW, or whatever the blank to fill is). Just a thought...
I get the fact as I design websites, graphics, etc, so I wouldn't like it if someone copied my work exactly, but to take some parts for inspiration, etc. I would view as flattery. It says...I did something right and someone loved it.
At the end of the day, Hyundai and Kia seemed to have taken cues from the competitive market, and went beyond (or attempted to) on standard features included, price, and reliability.
Don't get me wrong, I love my MB's but facts do stand that the majority of MB's are not too high on the reliability list and that to me speaks of a problem with MB (BMW, or whatever the blank to fill is). Just a thought...
Last edited by K-A; 04-19-2012 at 07:00 PM.
#33
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That's why I don't generally drink (or why I should drink).
It's also why I'm good at what I do (if I'm passionate about something, I'm intense about it).
It's also why I'm good at what I do (if I'm passionate about something, I'm intense about it).
#34
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2010 E550 4Matic sold, 2015 CLS 550 sold, 2016 CLS 550
Another "Korean" problem is how often they radically change their designs, model names etc. to try and "copy" the current styles.
I would hate to own a last generation hyundai whatever but I wouldn't mind owning a w211.
This will also factor into resale....If i'm searching for a used E class, I'm searching for a used E class. If I'm looking for a used Genesis....I might miss out looking for the Azera or Dynasty or whatever other full/mid size car in their lineup because nobody remembers them.
I would hate to own a last generation hyundai whatever but I wouldn't mind owning a w211.
This will also factor into resale....If i'm searching for a used E class, I'm searching for a used E class. If I'm looking for a used Genesis....I might miss out looking for the Azera or Dynasty or whatever other full/mid size car in their lineup because nobody remembers them.
#35
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Another "Korean" problem is how often they radically change their designs, model names etc. to try and "copy" the current styles.
I would hate to own a last generation hyundai whatever but I wouldn't mind owning a w211.
This will also factor into resale....If i'm searching for a used E class, I'm searching for a used E class. If I'm looking for a used Genesis....I might miss out looking for the Azera or Dynasty or whatever other full/mid size car in their lineup because nobody remembers them.
I would hate to own a last generation hyundai whatever but I wouldn't mind owning a w211.
This will also factor into resale....If i'm searching for a used E class, I'm searching for a used E class. If I'm looking for a used Genesis....I might miss out looking for the Azera or Dynasty or whatever other full/mid size car in their lineup because nobody remembers them.
Hyundai's have aged terribly thus far, as they don't have a design language. Their design language is a second rate copy of whoever the hot manufacturer of the moment is.
#36
Passion and intensity in your work is all well and good. Other than that, maybe you should relax a little. It'll be better for everyone.
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I'm very relaxed. That's the beauty of banter on the Internet.
Also, not concerned with others perceptions of me outside of my "real life".
Also, not concerned with others perceptions of me outside of my "real life".