My Ford Focus is Better than Your Mercedes.
#76
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I rented Focus diesel econowagon 17 years ago while on vacations in France.
Great wagon, that clocked 230 kph on 1.6l engine.
My new Ford truck is great vehicle so far too and I hope it will be reliable.
Live traffic on gps, 360 cameras. no engine noise in the cabin.
The only turn off is lack of adjustable suspension on pick up that is design to have very drastic changes on rear axle.
MB makes adjustable rears on wagons for like 50 years, so when Ford will catch up?
Great wagon, that clocked 230 kph on 1.6l engine.
My new Ford truck is great vehicle so far too and I hope it will be reliable.
Live traffic on gps, 360 cameras. no engine noise in the cabin.
The only turn off is lack of adjustable suspension on pick up that is design to have very drastic changes on rear axle.
MB makes adjustable rears on wagons for like 50 years, so when Ford will catch up?
#77
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W212 E-class, W211 E-class, F10 5-Series
I think you are missing the point. The same thread could have been started about a newer Hyundai and would still make sense.
I think the point the OP was trying to make is that a while ago, luxury cars were distinct because of the high-end features that they offered and they were not available in less expensive cars.
The point the OP made was that now you have to get a very well loaded Mercedes E class (face it, most cars are not loaded to the brim with options) to match the features of the Ford Focus. I tend to agree with that. My E550 is fully loaded with P2, pan. roof, etc., but I feel a bit short-changed when I look at some Hyundais and see not only the same features but other features in those cars that I can't even get as an option in my car -- such as head's up display for the Nav...
I think the point that the OP was making is that Mercedes needs to offer more features and generally take things up a notch in terms of what they offer in cars that cost as much as they do. When you can buy a Ford or Hyundai with more features than an E class, something is wrong. Heated seats, parking sensors, blind spot monitoring, etc., are no longer "luxury" features. Mercedes needs to take their game up a few notches.
At the end this will be good for us all! SO there's no arguing the point that the auto industry is getting more competitive and offer more. We just need our favorite German brand to not fall behind and indeed stay ahead of everyone else to justify what we pay.
Apart from all that I find it interesting that you took the time to comment on a "BS thread"
I think the point the OP was trying to make is that a while ago, luxury cars were distinct because of the high-end features that they offered and they were not available in less expensive cars.
The point the OP made was that now you have to get a very well loaded Mercedes E class (face it, most cars are not loaded to the brim with options) to match the features of the Ford Focus. I tend to agree with that. My E550 is fully loaded with P2, pan. roof, etc., but I feel a bit short-changed when I look at some Hyundais and see not only the same features but other features in those cars that I can't even get as an option in my car -- such as head's up display for the Nav...
I think the point that the OP was making is that Mercedes needs to offer more features and generally take things up a notch in terms of what they offer in cars that cost as much as they do. When you can buy a Ford or Hyundai with more features than an E class, something is wrong. Heated seats, parking sensors, blind spot monitoring, etc., are no longer "luxury" features. Mercedes needs to take their game up a few notches.
At the end this will be good for us all! SO there's no arguing the point that the auto industry is getting more competitive and offer more. We just need our favorite German brand to not fall behind and indeed stay ahead of everyone else to justify what we pay.
Apart from all that I find it interesting that you took the time to comment on a "BS thread"
I thought the high cost of MB was the import? Aren't MB priced lower in their home town? Aren't fords super expensive GT500 in Europe?
And yes MB does suck when it comes to keeping up with tech, but I can't blame them because people keep buying it so why should they change. They are the Apple of the automotive world they release small changes to keep people buying. Actually I think Apple stole there business model because it's exactly the same.
If you are a tech person and want to get your geek on don't buy a MB, but if you love to drive your car in comfort and want something built to last buy a MB.
And yes MB does suck when it comes to keeping up with tech, but I can't blame them because people keep buying it so why should they change. They are the Apple of the automotive world they release small changes to keep people buying. Actually I think Apple stole there business model because it's exactly the same.
If you are a tech person and want to get your geek on don't buy a MB, but if you love to drive your car in comfort and want something built to last buy a MB.
Haha..all the soapboxing and ****-shoveling doesn't make me feel better that a 25k car has as much if not more tech goodies than my 60k car.
Still really like my car, but per the usual, MB is behind the times on tech. How are safety and reliability covers for shoddy tech in a $50k base car?
For a fairer comparison, the new GS is a good few years beyond what the new W212's have in tech, and I seriously doubt that car is very much, if at all, less safe and reliable than a W212. Priced well to boot.
IMO, the Mercedes is overpriced, as are any luxury items. There's no way people are paying a $20k+ premium in buying a Mercedes just for safety. I'd say the nameplate is worth about $5-10k. The safety factor is more appropriately priced at a Volvo S80 level.
Still really like my car, but per the usual, MB is behind the times on tech. How are safety and reliability covers for shoddy tech in a $50k base car?
For a fairer comparison, the new GS is a good few years beyond what the new W212's have in tech, and I seriously doubt that car is very much, if at all, less safe and reliable than a W212. Priced well to boot.
IMO, the Mercedes is overpriced, as are any luxury items. There's no way people are paying a $20k+ premium in buying a Mercedes just for safety. I'd say the nameplate is worth about $5-10k. The safety factor is more appropriately priced at a Volvo S80 level.
Cool, I like your enthusiasm for the car. However, I think the "more tech, more to go wrong" sensibility is from Mercedes and cars in general from yester-year.
I like the car, but I'm not sold on the marketing superlatives. Particularly as far as the chassis goes. I haven't had a car creak and groan from chassis flex as much as my current car does since my 1993 Corrado.
The W126 was special for it's time. I wouldn't say the same about the W212.
I like the car, but I'm not sold on the marketing superlatives. Particularly as far as the chassis goes. I haven't had a car creak and groan from chassis flex as much as my current car does since my 1993 Corrado.
The W126 was special for it's time. I wouldn't say the same about the W212.
Rule of thumb according to who?
I dunno about you, but I won't pay more for a car without or a 5h!tty version of nav, bluetooth, uh power windows, power seats, etc than a car with those things or better versions of.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your opinion, I just don't think you're right. Haha.
BTW, IMO despite what MB marketing and dealers say, there's no way the W212 is going to go down as a watershed moment in Mercedes bloodline. I'm not even convinced its better than the facelift W211. It's just different, meaning not as sporty.
I dunno about you, but I won't pay more for a car without or a 5h!tty version of nav, bluetooth, uh power windows, power seats, etc than a car with those things or better versions of.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your opinion, I just don't think you're right. Haha.
BTW, IMO despite what MB marketing and dealers say, there's no way the W212 is going to go down as a watershed moment in Mercedes bloodline. I'm not even convinced its better than the facelift W211. It's just different, meaning not as sporty.
This opinion I disagree with. The Fusion and Mustang look just as good or better then many variant of MBs. Of course this is just my vs your opinion but when I had my Fusion I got more compliments then with my E. There's no denying that some of the compliments the E gets is strictly due to it being a Benz. However, I feel that no one complimented the Fusion because it was a Ford but more so because it was just a beautiful car at that time.
While I have always loved/bought Mercedes, and probably always will...I agree with OP that it is sad that Mercedes can't keep up with simple, common-sense tech and features that I can get on a car that costs 1/3 or ever 1/4 less!?!?! Being a finely executed car is no excuse for the lack of simple features that should be standard (i.e. navigation, leather, xenon lights, list goes on and on). I get that some "cool extra features" (such as Parking Assist or Distronic or Steering Assist or Multi-contour massaging seats) should remain optional, but the basics? Come on MB!! I guess it's the same as all the leaders in their markets (Apple didn't/doesn't include HDMI ports on their MacBooks, something other PC had been doing for years; Starbucks made you pay a premium...but for what?; Louis Vuitton has a 15 day return policy, but Calvin Klein has a 30 day...etc etc).
We have become the droids of luxury brands...
Last edited by tresean1; 05-25-2017 at 10:20 AM.
#78
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1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
MB have always been conservative with technology and would not jump on new stuff unless it was proven reliable.
I was comparing BMW in era when car went digital and still remember horror stories when BMW malfunction door switch would put transmission in limp.
Than there is different market for everything.
US require all gadgets to be idiot-proof and some stuff like Webasto heating simply will not last here, while Scandinavian people love the option.
My Ford truck has electric cabin heating for those cold mornings. But there is no driver control for it. The computer applies it at will.
While manual pickups in US have lower tow ratings that automatic twins? The drivers would burn 3 clutches before warranty expires.
Educated driving is a culture, that needs to be developed over years.
I was comparing BMW in era when car went digital and still remember horror stories when BMW malfunction door switch would put transmission in limp.
Than there is different market for everything.
US require all gadgets to be idiot-proof and some stuff like Webasto heating simply will not last here, while Scandinavian people love the option.
My Ford truck has electric cabin heating for those cold mornings. But there is no driver control for it. The computer applies it at will.
While manual pickups in US have lower tow ratings that automatic twins? The drivers would burn 3 clutches before warranty expires.
Educated driving is a culture, that needs to be developed over years.
Last edited by kajtek1; 05-25-2017 at 11:43 AM.
#79
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Also, the lighting Lumes are also less.
For instance, on top of my head:
Even though there is tech to not blind other people, and no proper street lights within the city, I can't use more light from my car.
I hated it, when I owned a motorcycle, in Charlotte, NC (same with Alpharetta, GA). After 7.30pm, I can't see **** on the road. I upgraded my bulbs on my fz6, still not enough for those streets.
I started using underglow LED setup on my motorcycle, at least I will be visible for other drivers.
#80
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When they bought the set- Canadian native neighbors pull the trailer all over the continent using 2-door Ford with 190 hp engine in it.
It was perfectly legal and normal at the time.
Don't know when US start making restrictions on car using for towing, but I guess high population of pickups and SUV makes for it.
My Ford Truck is rated for pulling 26,000lb trailer on the hitch, more on 5th wheel and I can pull RV of that weight with my Class A.
In EU any vehicle 3.5t or over require commercial DL (even for RV) and good luck finding a pickup there
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raja777m (05-25-2017)
#81
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Don't know when US start making restrictions on car using for towing, but I guess high population of pickups and SUV makes for it.
My Ford Truck is rated for pulling 26,000lb trailer on the hitch, more on 5th wheel and I can pull RV of that weight with my Class A.
In EU any vehicle 3.5t or over require commercial DL (even for RV) and good luck finding a pickup there
My Ford Truck is rated for pulling 26,000lb trailer on the hitch, more on 5th wheel and I can pull RV of that weight with my Class A.
In EU any vehicle 3.5t or over require commercial DL (even for RV) and good luck finding a pickup there
#82
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Just like to add my opinion, last year I was in a rear end motor collision, parts had to be shipped from Germany and it took awhile. Insurance put me in a 2017 Ford Fusion (I drive a 2010 E550), the Fusion I drove didn't have all the options as there was no blind spot assist, but after being stuck with the Ford for a month, I found myself to really miss my E550, 5.5L vs a TT 2.0. With the Ford there was a lot more electronic goodies you could say, but Mercedes has a high class appeal that Ford will never reach, when I got my car back, best feeling in the world.
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tresean1 (05-25-2017)
#83
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Just like to add my opinion, last year I was in a rear end motor collision, parts had to be shipped from Germany and it took awhile. Insurance put me in a 2017 Ford Fusion (I drive a 2010 E550), the Fusion I drove didn't have all the options as there was no blind spot assist, but after being stuck with the Ford for a month, I found myself to really miss my E550, 5.5L vs a TT 2.0. With the Ford there was a lot more electronic goodies you could say, but Mercedes has a high class appeal that Ford will never reach, when I got my car back, best feeling in the world.
#86
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To add to anyone who feels threatened from the abilities of Ford Fusion/Focus. Remember if you pulled up in a fancy 4-5 star hotel and by coincidence a Ford Focus/Fusion was arriving at the same time, the valet would probably help you first, and be more courteous towards you (driving the Mercedes). Lastly remember not everyone can afford a Mercedes like you can, where I live there is only 4 E classes, (Silver E550 Sedan, Facelift Black E550, E350 Silver Coupe, and my Black E550 Sedan) and there are dozens and dozens of Fords on the roads. You will always stand out from the crowd, who cares if it has more features all you have to say is "I drive a Benz and don't care about how much I spend on gas" (for E550 owners you know what I mean).
#87
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Similar to you I recently (2 months ago) had to go without my car for a month. Some pot holes damaged two rims and I had a huge headache trying to get replacements. Long story short, I was with a 2016 Chevy Cruze for the bulk of that time (Elantra for 1 week Cruze for 3). It had so many features compared to my E that I sorta wish I could swap out a few items and put them in my car. However it was a 4 banger and I felt like people could walk past me if they tried lol. That alone and the lack of space was enough to want my E back. Honestly I felt the same way when I had a 2016 E350 & C300 Loaner. The power was the primary reason to want my car back. If I had a Dodge Charger 2016 I think I would've been ok for a while longer for sure.
Yes, I was first put into a tiny Chevy car, little longer than the smart car, the transmission was a nightmare clunky as a horse ride, second car was Ford Fusion cool to see, looks like an Aston Martin which is dumb, and lastly a Chevy Cruze, all these cars had noooo power.
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I also had loaners for a month recently, both 2017 models Impala and Kia Soul... Have to say the only thing I liked about both cars was handing the keys back to the rental company. Their colors looked nice too, I guess. Got the Impala for the first week, returned it to pick up my car, discovered it wasn't done right, had to take it back. Got the panty-dropper Soul... or Soulless, as I call it... super glad to have my car back now. Out of those two, the Impala was a "premium" car, and it was okay... blind spots on all corners, but the infotainment system was decent. The Kia got me from A to B and that's all it was good for.
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I also had loaners for a month recently, both 2017 models Impala and Kia Soul... Have to say the only thing I liked about both cars was handing the keys back to the rental company. Their colors looked nice too, I guess. Got the Impala for the first week, returned it to pick up my car, discovered it wasn't done right, had to take it back. Got the panty-dropper Soul... or Soulless, as I call it... super glad to have my car back now. Out of those two, the Impala was a "premium" car, and it was okay... blind spots on all corners, but the infotainment system was decent. The Kia got me from A to B and that's all it was good for.
#90
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This thread didn't catch my attention when it started. But ironically after 20+ years of driving only Mercedes - I bought a Ford Focus. I have a Focus ST, which is the "hot hatch" version competing against the VW GTI, Subaru WRX, etc. - very much a niche product.
My experience after 26 months and 25K miles is this:
- The driving experience is fantastic. The steering has zero play, is quick and accurate. It turns in fast and sticks like crazy in the corners. The brake pedal is firm and has so much feedback you can read the coarseness of the pavement through it. Shifter and clutch are good, and engine is flexible and sounds good. Not much to complain about if you like this sort of thing.
- No repairs of any kind required, not even an alignment or tire balance.
- The flexible service system (I forget Ford's name) gives me 10K miles between services. The dealer charges $85 for a service, which includes the upgrade to full synthetic oil. After Mercedes, it feels really inexpensive to service and operate.
- Ford has very good human factors design. The switches & controls, voice commands, navigation, and infotainment all work intuitively and very well. Making a phone call consists of pushing the voice button and saying "call Scott Foster" - it just works, even with my overseas colleagues that have quite interesting names. I use the thing as a bit of a rolling office so it's very convenient.
- All the switches are lighted at night, all four windows are auto up/auto down, etc. It doesn't feel too much like they cheaped out.
- No run-flat tires, and it has a full size, speed rated spare tire.
- Hatchback utility. It will carry my road bicycle in the back. My record is 16 bags of shredded bark garden mulch. Since it's a Focus, you don't worry about loading it up with such things.
Of course, there are a few downsides:
- The ride is quite firm. It isn't any worse than others in this segment, but it's definitely not for everybody.
- It's not quiet. The big summer performance tires are noisy, and it has the same level of sound insulation as any other econobox.
- Build quality is meh, at best. Panel gaps and paint quality are not the strong point. Not sure it's below anything else in this segment, but it sure isn't put together like more expensive cars. One plus here is that if you need to get any paint work done, it doesn't really detract from the value of the car going forward. A decent bodyshop does better paintwork than the factory.
- Interior is plastic and cheap. I drive a lot of rentals on business, and it's not any worse than anything else at this price point - but not any better either. Interiors definitely improve when you spend more money.
Finally, my spouse refuses to ride in it because she hates the Recaro seats so much. I couldn't decide whether to put this one in the pluses or minuses column...
My experience after 26 months and 25K miles is this:
- The driving experience is fantastic. The steering has zero play, is quick and accurate. It turns in fast and sticks like crazy in the corners. The brake pedal is firm and has so much feedback you can read the coarseness of the pavement through it. Shifter and clutch are good, and engine is flexible and sounds good. Not much to complain about if you like this sort of thing.
- No repairs of any kind required, not even an alignment or tire balance.
- The flexible service system (I forget Ford's name) gives me 10K miles between services. The dealer charges $85 for a service, which includes the upgrade to full synthetic oil. After Mercedes, it feels really inexpensive to service and operate.
- Ford has very good human factors design. The switches & controls, voice commands, navigation, and infotainment all work intuitively and very well. Making a phone call consists of pushing the voice button and saying "call Scott Foster" - it just works, even with my overseas colleagues that have quite interesting names. I use the thing as a bit of a rolling office so it's very convenient.
- All the switches are lighted at night, all four windows are auto up/auto down, etc. It doesn't feel too much like they cheaped out.
- No run-flat tires, and it has a full size, speed rated spare tire.
- Hatchback utility. It will carry my road bicycle in the back. My record is 16 bags of shredded bark garden mulch. Since it's a Focus, you don't worry about loading it up with such things.
Of course, there are a few downsides:
- The ride is quite firm. It isn't any worse than others in this segment, but it's definitely not for everybody.
- It's not quiet. The big summer performance tires are noisy, and it has the same level of sound insulation as any other econobox.
- Build quality is meh, at best. Panel gaps and paint quality are not the strong point. Not sure it's below anything else in this segment, but it sure isn't put together like more expensive cars. One plus here is that if you need to get any paint work done, it doesn't really detract from the value of the car going forward. A decent bodyshop does better paintwork than the factory.
- Interior is plastic and cheap. I drive a lot of rentals on business, and it's not any worse than anything else at this price point - but not any better either. Interiors definitely improve when you spend more money.
Finally, my spouse refuses to ride in it because she hates the Recaro seats so much. I couldn't decide whether to put this one in the pluses or minuses column...
Last edited by Shadow5501; 05-26-2017 at 10:48 AM.
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jahquan3 (05-26-2017)
#91
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I've admired the look of the Impala from afar. I have a friend who just bought one but I've yet to meet up with him to see it in person. Does is have power and ride good? I've always looked at Impala as a slight step down from sport/muscle cars like Mustangs or Chargers.
Mine had the V6 in it, so I'd say it's comparable to the E350, but still falls short on the fit and finish (although it was close, TBH). Had leather seats, touch screen (but no nav), most of the controls made sense, bluetooth connectivity, decent sound (not as good as the HK system in the MB though). My biggest gripe with it was the blind spots. The A and C pillars are absolutely massive... I almost ran over a couple pedestrians because I couldn't see them past the pillars without craning my neck, which you'd have to do constantly if you're driving in the city where I live. The rear window is unbelievably tiny for the behemoth of a car that it is, and the forward rake of the suspension means you can't see anything out of the rear window anyways unless your head is crammed against the headliner.
But I'd rather be blind and reckless in that car than driving that awful Kia.
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My S class is better than your Phord Phocus
#96
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A year later - my youngest son bought new Ford Focus
Took him about 10 days and coming from his work late at night the radiator hose come off and drop all the coolant.
Son did not want to tow the car to dealer and loose it for whole weekend, so called friend for help and fixed it himself.
I rented couple of Ford Focus over the years and have pleasant memories, but I would hope Ford would learn how to tight hose clamps>
Took him about 10 days and coming from his work late at night the radiator hose come off and drop all the coolant.
Son did not want to tow the car to dealer and loose it for whole weekend, so called friend for help and fixed it himself.
I rented couple of Ford Focus over the years and have pleasant memories, but I would hope Ford would learn how to tight hose clamps>
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I've owned several Fords. They are fine cars, but not of the same build quality as the European makes. Among all the US makes, Ford has been the most open and willing to learn from the Japanese. The problem is they've emulated only the Japanese and not the Germans, too. All of my Fords, Hondas, etc, developed rattles and squeaks from 50K miles plus. Count on replacing a head gasket around 75K miles (especially any Ford Focus). The A/C and auto-tranny will need a rebuild by 90K miles. The list goes on...
My 2001 C320 is now 17 years-old. Not a squeak or rattle to be found, and mechanically it's still going strong. My daughter drives it now. She's hard on cars, but I think the Mercedes will take all she wants to dish out, and still be around in 10 years. This has given me confidence to continue on my journey with a newer E-Class. Can't dream of that with any American made car.
My 2001 C320 is now 17 years-old. Not a squeak or rattle to be found, and mechanically it's still going strong. My daughter drives it now. She's hard on cars, but I think the Mercedes will take all she wants to dish out, and still be around in 10 years. This has given me confidence to continue on my journey with a newer E-Class. Can't dream of that with any American made car.
Last edited by DFWdude; 04-24-2018 at 10:48 PM.
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Wait, did someone say FORD?