from W211 into W212
06-22-2012, 07:09 AM
#26
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you just tell the cranks to shut the hell up!!!
06-22-2012, 07:54 AM
#27
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The one thing that is definitely a result of cost cutting is that with the W211 you get 4 zone climate control with the E550 and sadly this is not the case with the W212 E550 as you just get 2 air vents with no temperature control. This is a really useful feature when you have cranky passengers who are sensitive to temperature. That and Airmatic not being standard in the E550 is another cost cutting measure.
I wish they had an option package to upgrade the interior
One thing that really bothers me is the center stack. Various levels of controls on the center stack are at different depths and seem to randomly jot in and out of the center console and I see no cohesiveness in the design and implementation. This is especially noticeable if you look into the front dashboard from above through the sunroof of a W211 and compare it with a W212. The beautiful organic curves and seamless blending of surfaces of the W211 is all gone...
I wish they had an option package to upgrade the interior
One thing that really bothers me is the center stack. Various levels of controls on the center stack are at different depths and seem to randomly jot in and out of the center console and I see no cohesiveness in the design and implementation. This is especially noticeable if you look into the front dashboard from above through the sunroof of a W211 and compare it with a W212. The beautiful organic curves and seamless blending of surfaces of the W211 is all gone...
06-22-2012, 12:16 PM
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The other car we were considering (but couldn't justify the cost) was a Porsche Panamera. Driving performance aside (uncomparable by any 4 door sedans), the interior of that car are levels above the E-Class. I know the exterior design is an eye sore to many, but if they don't price it out of the stratosphere, I'd definitely pick that over the E.
Somebody was comparing the front grill of sports model in W211 and W212. Don't forget the W211 AMG Sports package costs thousands (forgot how much?) where as W212 sports package is free.
Somebody was comparing the front grill of sports model in W211 and W212. Don't forget the W211 AMG Sports package costs thousands (forgot how much?) where as W212 sports package is free.
06-22-2012, 12:57 PM
#29
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Comparing Panamera's interior to E-class' is like comparing S-class' (or Audi A8's) to E. Apples vs. oranges. The price is double, so of course its day and night difference.
On W211 & W212 sports packages. If you read the whole thread carefully, you would have noticed that 2009 W211 (last year of W211 production) AMG Sport package (which was as readily available for that last year as those for W212) was only $1,500 including AMG wheels and AMG/sport steering wheel. To have apple to apple comparison, one must add wheels package($800) to W212. The difference is only around $700 - not even worth mentioning for a $60K car. Yes the difference to prior to 2009 W211s was (as mentioned in my earlier post) $4,200 ($3,500+$700), but with 2009 W211 it is only $700. This was the whole point of the last few posts: in order to keep price down, MB did cut costs in the enterior of W212 as compared to W211. As a matter of fact IMHO, MB even had some cost savings implimented with postfacelift W211 as compared to prefacelift W211 somewhat.
On W211 & W212 sports packages. If you read the whole thread carefully, you would have noticed that 2009 W211 (last year of W211 production) AMG Sport package (which was as readily available for that last year as those for W212) was only $1,500 including AMG wheels and AMG/sport steering wheel. To have apple to apple comparison, one must add wheels package($800) to W212. The difference is only around $700 - not even worth mentioning for a $60K car. Yes the difference to prior to 2009 W211s was (as mentioned in my earlier post) $4,200 ($3,500+$700), but with 2009 W211 it is only $700. This was the whole point of the last few posts: in order to keep price down, MB did cut costs in the enterior of W212 as compared to W211. As a matter of fact IMHO, MB even had some cost savings implimented with postfacelift W211 as compared to prefacelift W211 somewhat.
06-22-2012, 01:13 PM
#30
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on another panamera note:
if you like BUTTONS then that
is the car for you!
if you like BUTTONS then thatis the car for you!
06-23-2012, 02:22 AM
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AMG GTBS, AMG GTR Pro, AMG GT, C63 AMG, Porsche Panamera 4S, RX-7 FC Turbo II
I agree with your observation about the interior feeling more plasticky. I wish the interior was softer and more organic than it is...
However the wood really is wood. What you are probably noticing though is how absolutely thin they cut the wood... Perhaps cost cutting or perhaps done to avoid wood splinters in an accident.
In any case when they redesign the E class I hope they make it more upscale and nicer than it is and less plasticky. Personally I would not mind a few curves in the interior as they have in the S class... I am sure some have no problem with the interior but the interior design is my biggest gripe with the current E class. I just don't like it and it has not grown on me the way the exterior has. The interior seems C-classish to me...
On the plus side, you are in a better designed vehicle every other conceivable way. The W212 feels more slid to me. The side impact crash rating of the W212 is MUCH better than the W211 and the initial model year of the W212 was not the disaster it was with the W211 and I think it is a testament to build quality. Which likely means with the improvements being made for the facelifted W212 to refine an already good design it is going to be an outstanding Mercedes product.
Congrats again and drive safely!
However the wood really is wood. What you are probably noticing though is how absolutely thin they cut the wood... Perhaps cost cutting or perhaps done to avoid wood splinters in an accident.
In any case when they redesign the E class I hope they make it more upscale and nicer than it is and less plasticky. Personally I would not mind a few curves in the interior as they have in the S class... I am sure some have no problem with the interior but the interior design is my biggest gripe with the current E class. I just don't like it and it has not grown on me the way the exterior has. The interior seems C-classish to me...
On the plus side, you are in a better designed vehicle every other conceivable way. The W212 feels more slid to me. The side impact crash rating of the W212 is MUCH better than the W211 and the initial model year of the W212 was not the disaster it was with the W211 and I think it is a testament to build quality. Which likely means with the improvements being made for the facelifted W212 to refine an already good design it is going to be an outstanding Mercedes product.
Congrats again and drive safely!
06-23-2012, 03:55 AM
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2000 W210 E55->2003 R230 SL500->2004 W211 E55->2007 997TT+2007 E63->2010 GLK350->2012 E550 4matic
What I like about the W212 E is the solid chassis, feels much like a bank vault than the Panamera if you ask me. I prefer it size as well, the Panamera seems so big yet offers so little room.
06-23-2012, 04:13 AM
#33
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All great points. I'm sure that if we keep on going, we'll find enough (in the interior's small details) to make us wanting to switch back to W211. Right? Well, not a chance. W212 is clearly better than W211 where it counts the most - all aspects of actually driving it.
06-23-2012, 06:46 AM
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You guys are going to make me pay more attention to the interior of my new W212. I like the feel of the interior and have not noticed much of a difference. I really like the ambient lighting that comes with my package. I seem to be in the minority here but the interior feels more elegant to me. Compared to my C63, both the interiors of the W211 and the W212 feel like a Maybach to me. I'll focus on the some of the shortcomings that have been mentioned as a spend more time with the car.
Those of you who have a W212, I wonder if you've sat in a W211 lately. Once you're accustomed to the W212, the W211's inside not only feels more "flimsy", but it also feels less luxurious, even with those nicer nuanced materials here and there. Panel gaps also are horrid in the W211, namely compared to the W212; a dynamic that indeed is carried over to about all areas when it comes to the relationship between both cars.
06-23-2012, 08:52 AM
#35
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Those of you who have a W212, I wonder if you've sat in a W211 lately. Once you're accustomed to the W212, the W211's inside not only feels more "flimsy", but it also feels less luxurious, even with those nicer nuanced materials here and there. Panel gaps also are horrid in the W211, namely compared to the W212; a dynamic that indeed is carried over to about all areas when it comes to the relationship between both cars.
06-24-2012, 11:43 PM
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It's not just the interior, I think Mercedes has shifted its direction toward ease of manufacturing and cost saving. For example, we still have a W124 (1995 E320) in the family, and after all these years (and over 200k miles), it still runs perfectly with very minimal interior wear compared to other cars of the same age. I couldn't really say the same for our W211 (5 years old with less than 50k miles). While it drives super nice right now, I certainly hope the W212's would be less problematic in the long run.
Coincidentally VW has recently been advertising their Jetta having these "thump" sound when you close the door. I recall vividly this "thump" sound was unique to MB vehicles a decade ago, and was considered a representation of German quality back in the days. Unfortunately this sound has disappeared from the W211/W212 (not sure of W210). Not saying it means anything to the build quality, but it's one lost "uniqueness" of the Benz that I wish they would retain.
Coincidentally VW has recently been advertising their Jetta having these "thump" sound when you close the door. I recall vividly this "thump" sound was unique to MB vehicles a decade ago, and was considered a representation of German quality back in the days. Unfortunately this sound has disappeared from the W211/W212 (not sure of W210). Not saying it means anything to the build quality, but it's one lost "uniqueness" of the Benz that I wish they would retain.
06-25-2012, 03:33 AM
#37
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Just noticed another cost cutting move... In the W211 you can have ice cold air blowing just at your (driver's) feet and it is useful on a very hot summer day when your feet feel hot after walking outside. At the same time you can select the air flow for the front passenger to function as normal with most of the airflow coming out of the middle vents on the dashboard. I don't think this is no longer possible on the W212 for different occupants to direct climate control airflow to different places. And this is in addition to the W212 loosing quad zone climate control in the 550 trim. Like I've said before the W212 is still the better car, obviously, but the bean counters are at work removing and cutting features... Hopefully the cost cutting would not go as far as it did in the early 2000s where it seriously started affecting reliability.
06-25-2012, 04:49 AM
#38
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Just noticed another cost cutting move... In the W211 you can have ice cold air blowing just at your (driver's) feet and it is useful on a very hot summer day when your feet feel hot after walking outside. At the same time you can select the air flow for the front passenger to function as normal with most of the airflow coming out of the middle vents on the dashboard. I don't think this is no longer possible on the W212 for different occupants to direct climate control airflow to different places. And this is in addition to the W212 loosing quad zone climate control in the 550 trim. Like I've said before the W212 is still the better car, obviously, but the bean counters are at work removing and cutting features... Hopefully the cost cutting would not go as far as it did in the early 2000s where it seriously started affecting reliability.
Manual suggests , for some countries it could change . I thought may be SCN Coding can enable this foot+face combined unless A/C unit needs a replacement for it
Either way, how does thermotronic work , is it same as ours or different with respect to blowing air (face, foot and both )
06-25-2012, 05:56 AM
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The W212 I feel will be able to last as long as those old Benzes (electronics aside), but the W211 I'd be more weary to own long term. Just look at the initial W212 quality reports, definitely the most true-to-form launch since the W124 (W210 and W211 early years were utter DISASTERS).
Coincidentally VW has recently been advertising their Jetta having these "thump" sound when you close the door. I recall vividly this "thump" sound was unique to MB vehicles a decade ago, and was considered a representation of German quality back in the days. Unfortunately this sound has disappeared from the W211/W212 (not sure of W210). Not saying it means anything to the build quality, but it's one lost "uniqueness" of the Benz that I wish they would retain.
I don't think anything will be able to truly replicate those ultra crisp and strong door close sounds of the old-school M-B's, but IMO they got it really close with the W212 and new era M-B's.
