pcsgrp

I am new to this forum. I made the mistake of stopping by my local MB dealer and my wife found a 350 that she likes. It is a 2011 MB executive driven with less then 10k miles on it. It is a sport and has the premium package 1 on it along with some other options like led lighting. Never having owned a MB (I did have BMWs) I was hoping for some help. My big question is how good is the care and how does it do in mpg's. I just have a thing about getting better mpgs if at all possible. How much flexibility on pricing or getting something like maintenance do you think the dealers are capable of doing? I love to work on cars so I was thinking about putting in aftermarket HIDs. Looking at the car it looks like a pain and I am wondering if anyone has done it and can recommend a good kit. It has the p-zero tires with 18" wheels so I need snow tires. I can get rims and tpms sensors from tire rack but I have 215-60-17 x-ice 2 tires (27.2" dia) that I got for my wife's current car but will they fit in the wheel wells? Any down sides to the car. When all is said and done, with the asking price and tax etc, it is around $50k. Any insite would be much appreciated.

ps Happy New Year

ddeliber

Where do you live, what city? $50k for a 2011 seems a bit steep. There is a 2011 e550 with <10k miles, P2 and parking sensors in the Boston area for $48k. I would think u can get a similarly equipped e350 for much less.

4matics don't really need winter tires, a good all season should be all u need. The 2011s aren't that great with fuel mileage, you will only get about 21/22 mpg mixed cty/hwy.

pcsgrp

Thanks for the response. I live in NJ and I value your information. If it was a 2012 with direct injection I wouldn't be thinking all that hard about but I do mostly long drives including up to canada and vermont to ski on the weekends. My wife liked this one because of the fold down rear seats to fit our ski equipment. In doing some research on these forums, it looks like everyone seems to be gettin 10k off on a P1 350 as usual occurance. Needless to say, with Sandy lots of cars are being sold to replace those damaged in the storm. I was considering waiting for the spring when the 2013 should be substantially less or perhaps picking up a 2014 e250 bluetech....I just don't know. It was so much easier to go into a ford dealer and get a car and do all the service myself.

BM2BZ

welcome aboard ! check this out before you/your wife make a decision: https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...2013-e350.html

pcsgrp

Thanks for the welcome. I can't seem to find anything on the MB website about 10k off. I plan to purchase could it be a leas thing? If you have the specific link can you send it.

ddeliber

My pleasure, happy to help.

The 10k is not an advertised discount, it is a combination of a very good discount and all of the incentives out there (like the MB winter event). But be careful, it either ends at the end of Dec (read today) or very soon (maybe it goes thru Jan not sure).

Being from Jersey I would expect that you have a pretty good selection of MB dealers. That should give you a good starting point. If someone got a 2013 with P1 for 45, I would think you have your answer on the 2011. What can it hurt, give one of the bigger MB dealers a call and tell them that your good friend just got a 2013 e350 with P1 for $45k and you wanted to know if they would match the deal. You might want to tell them that you'll buy it today (or something) if they do, they probably won't really deal on the phone unless you can convince them you are serious. I just wouldn't recommend you do this with the dealer that you just went to since they know you are interested in the 2011.

I wonder if you can get that deal on a 2013 Bluetec? Unfortunately I don't believe they sell many of them up here because you can't get them in a 4matic. If it is a RWD you will definitely need good winter tires like with my e350.

Leases are just purchases where you only pay for the depreciation over a period of time like 2-3 yrs. The deals on the cars are the same in fact the best way to negotiate a lease is to work out the sale price first.

I would also agree that the split folding rear seats are a great option, but it is only about $450 and many of the cars on the dealers lots have them.

pcsgrp

I asked the local dealer about any incentives and all they told me was some financing. Perhaps this is a sign to go to another dealer. After reading about the '11 vs the 13 with direct injection and a few other nice things, I am more inclined to just get a '13 and get exactly what I want. The good thing is we both have good cars and with winter upon us, I may be in a better position to make a cash deal. There is no way I am going to go out and get one tonight. It is what it is. After reading about the '14 model year, I like the LED headlights (I hate that the P1 doesn't have HIDs and they appear be a pain to install) so perhaps a P2. Around me we got hit hard with the hurricane and E's are in short supply. Seems that north Jersey had a bunch of them. I am also down in Florida in two months and with 800k in frequent flier miles, I can go anyplace for a good deal. I am still learning about MB cars and how things run. Ihave to say, they do make an outstanding car

ddeliber

I was in the same boat recently, and now that I have one, I COMPLETELY agree! It is hard to describe how great these cars are to someone that hasn't driven one for more than just a few test drives.

Nuru

That is too steep for a 2011 (one in NJ, in great shape, CPO, with 12k miles should be ~$44k retail according to KBB.com). The smaller dealerships tend to have less inventory and higher prices.

The 2014s are going to be available in April, at that point the used 2010s/2011s/2013/s are going to experience a price drop. So it might be advantages to wait.

If you are willing to shop out of your state or find the largest dealer in your area, you probably will find even better prices. I would also advise that if you really like that car, get some competing offers from the web, bring these to the dealer, and ask that dealer to meet the lower prices. I hope this helps.

Nuru

you have the right idea, if you can get a vehicle with the P2 options installed - very good. I was looking into retrofitting the bi-xenon headlights, but that requires at least the following for my car:

• Getting the headlamp assemblies
• getting the ballsts
• adding the sensors to the frame located under the fenders and quarter panels
• modifying of changing the steering column (found this out recently)
• adding the wiring harness to connect all the additional equipment

then having the dealer program the car and components, so that it will work correctly. I was all ready to start down that path, but then they informed me of the "Steering Column" monkey wrench and I bailed.

ddeliber

Just so you know, (Sorry, I missed this earlier), the deals are on current inventory. You won't be able to get close to the $10K discount if you order exactly what you want. P2s are also harder to find, so price will reflect that as well.

pcsgrp

I can't believe how often the MB dealer is calling my house and not leaving a message. I guess they don't know about caller id! Still kicking around picking up the 2011 but I am getting the feeling in the long run, it might be better for me to get a new 2013 in a few months and get the exact car we want. I think I am going to go with either a p1 or p2. I know it a going to be a larger nut but at least I get a brand new car with a full warantee and I know how it is being driven and when you consider I usually keep my cars for 7 or 8 years and I was going to spend about 30k on a new car for my wife anyway, the difference between buying pre-owned and new is only about 2k per year. I am waiting for a friend who knows someone who is a MB expert mechanic to let me know if there are any specific generic problems with the e350 that I should know about. .

alanme123

Are you looking for a 2013 or 2014? If you like the new look of 2014 then i suggest you wait until it comes out this year. Also having p1 or p2 on your car makes a big difference in the discount you are going to get. Because almost 90% of the cars are p1, usually dealers are willing to let p1 cars go for much cheaper/better discounts than p2 cars. Retrofitting what is on p2 to a p1 car isn't highly recommended because its just a major pain.. Something to think about.

El Cid

I paid $48K for a 2010 RWD with P1 that I ordered from Germany brand new in Nov. 2009. Tax was only $300. The new 2014 will have a new front end, new interior and other new features, so it will drive down the price of cars already out there. Saw some postings where they are offering $10K off brand new 2013's with P1.
MB's do not get good gas mileage as a rule and require premium. Also, maintenance is very high compared to Ford, Toyota, Nissan, etc. Roughly $200+ at first 10,000 miles/12 months and next service is about $400+. Supposedly the four year service is around $750-1,000. This does not include things that go bad and are not covered by warranty. Also, AWD may cost more.
I like my car, but it is costly to own, comparatively speaking. Could use indpendents and save a few bucks, but had problems with them on past cars.
How much will your insurance go up? Property taxes (if any)?
Compared to a Ford Fusion, it will cost you a lot more for as long as you own it. Recognize that going in and appreciate the comfort, performance, luxury and prestige the car offers and you'll be happy. (Just remind your wife she wanted it).
On plus side, E Class E350 RWD sedan is most relaible car MB sells in US per Consumer Reports.
Don't envy the decision you have to make.

ddeliber

I do have to mention something here... Typically a 2-3 yr old car is going to give you the best bang for the buck. The depreciation in the first year on a luxury car like the E350 is about $10k and a little less in yr 2. The wrinkle here is that at least in December, some people SAID they got $10k off a new 2013. I have no idea what you can get, and more to the point, what you can get now. I believe that the winter event discount is over and that was something like $3500 from MB (not the dealer, and if I am wrong here someone will surely correct me soon). From what I have heard, MB does not discount these cars that much normally so I believe it may have been a unique situation. Hell, the dealer in my area sells most of their cars at MSRP (take a look at truecar.com and you'll see a huge number of cars sold at MSRP).

The price you saw on that 2011 is not typical, it is in fact quite high. By way of example, the banks themselves estimate residual values from a 30 month lease to be around 57% for an E350. This means the car depreciates 43% or $25,800 on a $60,000 msrp (which is where a P2 4Matic will list) in 2.5 yeas. I am talking money people here so they put a lot of effort into these evaluations. Just doing the subtraction you should be able to find 2010s for about $34,200 and in fact you can, most are listing about $2k to $5k more as CPO depending on miles and options. My 2010 was about $35 but it had a ridiculous option set listing at about 63k (P2, multi-contour seats, driver assist pkg -forgot this one initially -, night vision, split folding rears, and those ridiculously overpriced illuminated door sills with 25k miles) and this was about 3 months ago. I think I got lucky with this find, it had been on the lot for a while so they wanted to move it. Now that the 2014s are draining the sales of the 2013s and the other CPOs out there, the prices will come down.

I am really curious about what the payoff quotes are for the 2010 and 2011s coming off lease are. Just to see if the estimates at 57% residual are accurate. Has anyone gotten a quote for their lease recently?

If you can get a 2013 with P2 for $10k off I'd say buy it now and don't look back it is an outstanding deal. I suspect that this deal will be tough to get if not impossible especially if the winter event is over. If you don't have to have the newest and the latest, your best bet is to get a 2-3 yr old CPO and extend the warranty all the way to 7yrs 135k miles - financially speaking only. Oh, and don't pay attention to the list price, as others have said, you really can negotiate those prices down. You can find the car and work out the deal. Like you said, they are calling you a lot, that is because it is January and they don't sell a lot of cars this time of year - they'll deal.

alanme123

It will be fairly tough for anybody to get 10k off of a p2 car even during winter sales. Most dealers simply won't sell it because they are much more rare on the market. Depending on where OP is located, OP might still get a good sale in Jan. I bought my car in Jan 2012, and I got 8k off my P2. I thought that was a pretty good deal in the start of the year. Keep in mind that the December incentives are much better than January's so nearing 10k off msrp is hard if not impossible unless the dealer is dying to meet their quota or something..

pcsgrp

The more I see the more I realize that the $44.9 for a 350 sport with p1 is a not all that good a deal. Since I no longer work and will usually be driving longer distances to go places, I am not all that worried about the premium fuel. My current ford is the first car I have not needed to us premium in about 30 years! I do like the response of the direct injection hence going afte a 2013. I have driven car models with both direct and old fashion fuel injection and the difference is noticible and fuel economy (for what tha is worth) is better on the DI motors. My big issue is I am not as street wise about MB products as I should be an my wife really likes the cars. My brother used to have a old (1964 MB back in the late 60's) and that was a joy to work on. Also, nothing went wrong. Maintenance is maintenance including on my ford. Oil changes are really about the only thing you can do any more. My big concern is all the resetting that needs to be done which I understand can be done without MB intervention. Like american cars, most things require a trip to the dealer that is why I was concerned about only having 3 years left on the warantee. The car I was looking at was never titled and was driven by a MB executive so the date starts when it was put in service. I think the certified ones give you a better deal.

alanme123

You can always look at the bluetec version. Read somewhere on the forums that the mpg of bluetecs can be ridiculously high if driven correctly.. There are some great deals on CPOs out there. I'm pretty sure you also get a few years of CPO warantee on the car as well. Good luck in finding your car!

pcsgrp

I was thinking about a bluetec but I rather stick with gas. As I mentioned, my biggest issue isnt' buying but rather knowing about the different variations. I am really seeing the frustration people are having with MB. For example, I really want HID lights they are so much better but I need to get the P2 package to get that, just frustrating. On an american car I would just add the HID kit but I am seeing that it might be a bigger issue with MB and any warantee issues. I guess it is the german mindset sort of reminds me of my uncle who just passed away at 96. He was a stickler for things and everything had to somehow managed. I guess when you help invent the transister and solar cell at bell labs, you get into being a prefectionist.

I was looking over the 535 (I had one some time ago) and for the same money it seems to have a lot of the things I want in a MB and it comes with several years of free maintenance and to purchase additional bumper to bumper maintenance isn't all that much. I just have to figure out if you can reset all the maintenance lights without having ot buy a special tool or take it to the dealer like I had to do in the past

a2jon

For what its worth, I just picked up a '11 CPO E350 w/P1 + AMG + Sport right before the new year and as others have commented, they were offering a very good deal with CPO warranty and mine goes to Sept-2016. I too was looking at a 535 for the same reasons however the BMW dealers wouldn't negotiate on price and in the end, I liked the styling of the E350 better and the reviews/research put MB #1 over BMW (realize thats subjective too).

This was my first MB vehicle (coming from a Cadillac) and the whole experience was outstanding from engaging the dealer to financing to driving it home, etc.. I guess it was exactly what I should expect.

In the end, my wife and I are extremely happy with the car and the whole buying experience (this morning she got up and asked if she could take the car today so I can see we are going to get up earlier each day to race to get the E350 ). Good luck on your decision, I know we are happy with ours.

alanme123

The incentives for the BMW is much lower than Mercedes. I would say around half. My friend got a loaded 535 (m sport package, everything really) for 63k (4k off msrp). I guess it really depends on which package you get, but in the end you won't be getting the incentives that you can from MB. That's why the w212 is killing the 5 series in sales right now.

sleewell

i am in the same boat. looking for a 2011 e350 4matic. my price range is under 40k and i am finding plenty with the options and color combos i am looking for. prices are low right now, make sure you get the best deal possible!!

ddeliber

I really understand the feeling of not knowing enough to make an educated decision. I am the same way, I did a lot of research before I bought car. The trouble was that I thought that I was going to buy a 535. My heart initially lead me to the car and research lead me to have concerns about reliability. Consumer reports called the recent model year 535s as "worst of the worst" for reliability. Not that CR is the panacea of ratings or anything, but others have indicated the same thing. I believe this is why they offer the free maintenance for the initial warranty period. Believe it or not, their service is more expensive than MB (not sure by how much though). Anyway, I still had the I want a BMW feeling until I drove my e350.

It really comes down to preference with these two cars, BMW is the ultimate in handling and precision feel of the road, and MB is the ultimate in smoothness and refinement. For me it came down to how well each car did with the others strength. I mentioned this on another thread once, on a scale of 1 - 10 where 10 is the best:
Handling:
BMW 9.5
MB 7.5 - 8

Comfort and refinement:
MB 9.5
BMW 6.5

I am not taking my car to the track and that 9.5 in comfort really is a 10 if you compare similarly priced cars. AND I still take the off ramps at 65 70 mph in my MB because it is fun! I just don't think I need or would feel comfortable doing it at 80/90 which the BMW could probably do!

Regarding the research I mentioned, after I drove the E350 and was blown away at how refined my car was the first thing I did, after giving my wife oxygen and calming her down from her frantic "WE HAVE TO BUY THIS CAR" blubbering, was research the heck out of the e350 (which it looks like you are doing right now).

What I found out:
-Reliability - good to very good but expensive to fix CR "recommended" status if that means anything. --> Recommend getting a CPO and a warranty extension to 7yr/135kmi - BMW maxes out at 6yr 100kmi. If you go new, you don't need to extend the warranty until somewhere in yr 4 at the risk of the price going up in the meantime.
-They sell a LOT of them, quite surprising given the $56k price tag (P1).
-A bunch of hidden gems and service/maintenance suggestions (I'll let you do the searches here). Best to find a good independent that specializes in German cars because the dealers can be ridiculous, especially after the warranty (comparable to BMW and Audi).

Regarding lights. You absolutely can upgrade the bulbs to HID bulbs. You do not need to upgrade the full headlights or add all P2 features. If you just want brighter, just do the bulbs. I also found that one side is harder to do than the other (can't remember which), but we are talking about like $200 to have someone that knows what they are doing to do it or $100 and a scraped knuckle if you do it yourself, not the $2,500 for P2. Bulbs are a wear item and there is absolutely no risk to the warranty as long as you put in compatible ones of course. You can get em for like $20 each aftermarket or I believe a little over $50 each for OEM.

As you have seen, there are a number of posts here on maintenance, it really isn't that complicated but I understand the apprehension. Pretty much all new premium cars come with service counters (BMW, Audi, Porche etc and even many Japanese and American models). It is just a matter of telling the car that you just changed the oil or did service B (oil and brake fluid, and maybe tranny fluid for the 2nd B). There is a video of it that is just over 1 minute long on the w204 C class forum. Same procedure on the E's. My point here is no matter what car you buy (within a similar class of course) you will probably want to learn the maintenance schedule and decide what you want to do yourself and what you will leave to a tech (indy or dealer). If you want the dealer to do it all like with the BMW, the prepaid maintenance plan is like $700 for 3 years, and it is renewable for another 3 years or more. I don't recommend doing more than 3 yrs at a time because it is not refundable like the extended warranty is so if you total it or trade it in, the money is gone.

pcsgrp

Thanks for the info. I just ruled out the bmw 5 series for a few reasons. Firstly, the car is smaller inside then the Eclass and a killer for me was that they all have run flat tires. I had some people who worked for me (when I still worked) that had them on their BMWs and they changed them out for regular tires and figured if they got a flat they would call AAA. That doesn't work for me specially if we are someplace where there is no cell phone service or it is in the middle of a snow storm. Besides, I walked into the BMW dealership after taking down the outside christmas lights, looking a little sloppy and they wouldn't give me the time of the day. You would figure is someone walks in looking for a car on a monday morning..... well what can I say!

Fortunately, inventory around here for E350s is very low due to Sandy and from what I understand, MB lost about 4,000 cars that they had just imported at the dock in Baltamore due to flooding. It is going to be interisting to see how they do over the winter if they are bringing out the new model in APril. I wonder when they are shutting down 2013 production?

ddeliber

I hate run flats too!

Sounds like a crappy dealer that you have, In January to boot wow! For me, the BMW guys were a little sleazier than MB, but they both bent over backwards for me when I was there (in my jeans and a normal pullover shirt).

I am curious about 2013 production as well, I think April is for European availability, we probably wont see them until say June/July.