alsyli

From motortrend.com:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s_first_drive/

220S

"It's not a sports car, but no longer is it a laggard in the corners. You can have some genuine fun with this car."

It's about time.
Finally it's no longer the snooze-mobile it's always been.....

BenzV12

Thanks , I will read hopefully they left positive remarks

I have just finished of reading and they also said no lonver V8 engines were available but I checked German Official site and here you go :

http://www.mercedes-benz.de/content/...figurator_w212

There is some misconception , V8 engines are kept but for some odd reason US will no longer receive it from my inference

220S

It is unfortunate that we're losing nicely balanced, normally aspirated V-8 motors that also sound sweet (and all due primarily to CAFE rules.) But the V-6TT does deliver 354 lb-ft of torque which is decent. Horsepower may be down but torque is what it's really all about in real world daily driving with so much traffic, etc..

But it seems to suffer from cabin noise and a lack of a nice engine note:

"No, the twin-turbo V-6 isn't as quick as the twin-turbo V-8, and that's to be expected, given that it's down 63 horsepower and 88 lb-ft. It is quicker, though, than its 329 horsepower and 354 lb-ft suggest. The little turbos spool quickly and produce a mostly flat power curve that seems to rise just slightly as you approach redline. Lag is negligible and torque delivery is nearly instant, but it comes on smoothly rather than punching you in the back like the V-8. If there's anywhere it falls down, it's in the same places as the little diesel: It sends more vibration into the cabin than you'd expect, and it's a little loud. Moreover, it doesn't sound good. In fact, it sounds as though a Nissan VQ V-6 engine's ***** have dropped. It gets a little better if you really wring it out, but overall it's not a great sound and certainly no replacement for the V-8's motorboat grumble."

As usual, it's always a few steps forward in one area and then a few steps backwards in another with any new Mercedes....

Wig

Would you say this applies to Benz more than, say, Porsche or BMW? I think BMW fans lament the loss of the 5 Series' handling, but new converts may like the improved ride.

Porsche seem to improve the 911 with each iteration, but there are enthusiasts who say its has lost some of its feel for more comfort.

220S

I think there have been compromises with all the manufacturers (and the bottom line of course is all about selling cars.) But then again, one person's 'compromise' is another person's 'improvement.' In respect to Porsche, I personally have sort of an ambiguous feeling about it all; one side of me likes the modernizing of the platform and the other side doesn't. I let go of my 993 to help fund my 991 and I sometimes wish I hadn't. The only real cure is to have both, I suppose. The power and handling is clearly up-to-date with the current iteration but that old school feeling isn't quite there anymore.

It may well be that many Benz owners won't like a tightening up of the chassis and would rather keep it soft. And some might prefer a smaller motor with better mpg but with tighter and more nimble driving characteristics. The one area that all manufacturers have seem to have improved on and that appeals to everybody is better assembly and overall much better reliability, despite all the sophisticated technology.

alsyli

The old-school feeling hasn't been there for a very long time (right around the time the clearly cost-cutting W210 was introduced in the US in late 1995). Likewise, MB handling has been significantly tightened for at least several yrs (since at least the W211), but at the cost of best-in-class ride quality. The ride in C250 Sport is bizarre mix of overly firm ride, significant understeer, and overly light steering that has virtually no self-centering that requires a fair amount of attention the freeway. But I guess that's what the people in the US want....

The MT review implies that ride quality has improved along w/ the handling (I guess the W212 was engineered to drive like a gigantic W204?). There's a *ton* of new Lexus ES in the LA area (which supposedly rides much harder than the previous one, if you get the up-sized wheels); I think most buyers, alas, care only about the huge three-pointed star on the grille (esp since I assume most of the inventory on dealer lots will consist of the gauche Sport model....).

220S

fwiw, I was talking about Porsche (e.g., the 993 versus the current 991) in respect to "old school feeling." And on that note, 964 owners felt Porsche had lost its way when the 993 came out and that the "old school feeling" was gone even back then. But "old school" in Porsche-talk means more than just chassis/suspension. The current 991 out performs the older versions. It's the weight/size, cushier amenities, and other things like smell (and yes, air cooled dry sump Porsche motors have a distinct smell that permeates the cabin) that has changed.

Anyway, there will always be change. And that change won't ever please all of the people all of the time. We just pick our poison.

hyperion667

I like my snooze mobileand that's why my other cars cater to a different set of needs

K-A

Man do those headlines look awful and convoluted (I extra cringe at how the vast majority of P1 E's will have not just halogens as usual, but M-B are COST CUTTING projector headlamps for 1980's style reflector headlamps.... while cheap Econo cars are at least putting their halogens in projectors, M-B and BMW on their 3-Series are going back a couple of decades to reflectors). Unfortunately in the States it's all but guaranteed we'll have 99.9% of models wearing the brash and gaudy (and mismatched with the upright conservative and still heavily angular nature of the rest of the car) Star grill iteration.

I like that they put focus onto how poorly the old car handled bumps, stating specifically how the "new" one goes over them with a muted "thud" (it's all I ever asked for on the ride of my W212's! I forgave the floaty handling and super-boosted steering because I accept that that's what a Mercedes is about, but harshness over bumps and an erratic and rattling chassis when doing so is not), which is great news. Though, I have a feeling they're saying that because they're driving the Luxury version and have yet to try the Sport. Being that I now have an F10 with bigger wheels, stiffer handling, and dreaded RFT's that goes over bumps more smoothly than my W212's ever did, tells me that M-B has not figured out how to get near engineering a dynamic "Sport Sedan" suspension, as they have it backwards: It floats on corners and gets race-car stiff over bumps (should be the opposite). Will be a huge gain if this facelift corrects that.

As for the interior, it's unfortunate to hear that they used most of the same materials. I appreciate the built-to-last and ultra rigid vibe and feel of the W212's interior, but it really could have used some extra plushness and coddling in form of maybe padding or slightly more refined plastics in areas. Though, again, it seems very quality in the durability sense.

And I don't get what they're going for with the engines.... are they really gonna have a 3.5L 302 HP V6 as the E350 and then as the "upgrade" (I hope they don't still call it E550) they're gonna have a 3.0L V6 with 329 HP? That will flop massive in the States. A big reason American's will pay up for higher numerical models within the same line is because they're satisfied with the bigger motor, the extra cylinders, etc. Having a V6 with a half less liter (smaller engine than the cheaper car) and a not-so-whopping 27 HP extra I truly think will give the American clientele no reason to pay up. Not to mention, a TT 3.0 V6 WILL sound significantly worse and "smaller" than a N/A 3.5L V6.

MBNUT1

I'm kind of with the sentiment of this post. I find that Mercedes are tending to lose their driving character with the pursuit of "driving fun". What particularly resonated with me is the comment on no self centering of the latest C Class. I loved how strong that was in the old Mercedes giving you that sense of tracking down the road like a freight train and have no interest in one that doesn't possess it now.

220S

If you get a chance, try the C250 sport on the freeway and then take out a C350 sport. There is a 200 lb weight difference between the two cars and that weight is the motor sitting over the front axle. My partner tried out both before settling on a 2013 C350 sport. She came from a 3-series BMW and wanted an overall similar feel but not as stiff as the E46 BMW chassis she was driving. She wanted a smoother ride but with something closer to the BMW steering/handling she was used to having.

But she didn't want a turbo (she prefers the throttle response of n/a motors; the BMW IL6 n/a motor was one of the best.) And she didn't want the pop-up nav screen and the new interior of the 3-series plus the five different versions and convoluted options you have to now wade through. And she wanted a change. She's very happy with the overall ride of the C350.

I haven't driven it that much but it feels pretty decent to me and the steering, while a bit light in respect to what I'm personally used to, doesn't have any issues of tracking on the freeway. It may very well be the weight difference. I haven't driven a C250 to compare (but she did.) She comments that it feels "more planted" than the BMW (she drove the current 3 series, too.)

And the current C350 is heavier than both the 328i and the 335i. fwiw, MT preferred the 2013 C350 overall over the 2013 335i. You probably should take them out for a test drive yourself and see what you think.

K-A

I've driven a C250 and 328i and the 328i is in a whole different league. The C250 feels as sluggish as about any econobox that you'll drive, and the technology/drivetrain is just generally very inferior. I do like the interior ambiance though, and the car feels solid, etc., though I found the 328i's suspension to be far more dynamic and "dialed in".

The 328i is actually quite fast, sounds good at throttle (though has a typical crappy 4-banger sound at idle.... compare to the C250 which just sounds tinny and not good about anytime), and when you factor in MPG, power, comfort, handling is really the best dynamic choice of its 4-cylinder comparisons.

I can't speak for the C350 VS 335i but know that the N55 packs a stronger punch and better efficiency from the new 3.5L V6 M-B uses and the ZF 8-Speed is a world above the 7G Tronic (which have always been quirky in my cars), of course has much superior tech and I think the F30 chassis overall is more impressive than the venerable W204 chassis.

What I'm not crazy about from the F30 is its interior (not terrible but you can tell it's off of a completely different base than the BMW large platform cars, i.e seems to be from a different manufacturer completely with its more utilitarian and not-always-so-refined materials and feel), the hideous pop up Navi (which M-B is already starting to play follower on, such a terrible look IMO), and the awkward and unnecessarily complex/convoluted front with the "connected grille" and puffy hood.

The W204 has probably been M-B's biggest home run in a very long time, I feel the stars were aligned when they made that car because if you notice, M-B's usually start getting slaughtered in "Magazine Tests" a year or two after they launch, while the W204 still proves its strong relevance almost toward the end of its life cycle (proof in its even-accelerating sales).

MBNUT1

Thanks for the recommendation

klobbr

I think future test drives will bring more to light on the actual performance increases from <13-14. I like the conservative and well made interior. I like the way the designers make homage to the e class design history and I think the ride and style of the pre (and probably post) facelift e class would be perfectly suited to my environment and driving. I ordered my 13 before I saw the 14 and I am perfectly happy with that decision.

In my shopping around it seemed to me that all of the euro sedans have opted to bring their base models down and gone into the S, M, and AMG classes to show their best. Leather as an option is crazy to me. Its a sign of the times, and things probably will be like this for a while. Just in time or made to order cars is not far off. I just went through something similar myself with a wagon purchase.

Nothing beats the sound of a V8. Whether under full throttle or as it pants quietly next to the gas pump, they are always saying something to you. I like the noise of the 13 V6. Its a little like a muted superbike sound, and since i enjoy motorcycles as well I don't find it unpleasant. It pulls well enough. I have not driven the car enough to distinguish sport from econ, but will trust that econ will save some fuel.

Brakes on these cars are of legend. Even my 93 300 CE brakes like no other car I've had on the road or at the track. Total confidence there.

I admit I am aging into the back side of my 40s, so these things all would be cast off by a younger driver, but I really don't see MB being any different from the rest of the Euro car makers. The economy over there is mandating some of these adjustments but they all are still making excellent cars. Maybe the article is too bent toward how much has changed versus the overall desirability of the car in real world driving situations...

alsyli

Psst.... You know that the 300E had leather as an option until 1990, right? And that they moved back to "partial leather seating surfaces" on the W211? I think not offering leather on a $50,000 is borderline offensive, but then I also find the "standard" leather of most manufacturers is also rather offensive (and not easily distinguished from MB tex, which says more about the poor quality of the regular leather today than it does about MB tex.... Loved the leather on the 1990-1995 W124s, though.... ).

They're not legendary anymore. Smaller rotors + all-seasons tires have lead to rather unimpressive results (w/o the 18-in wheel package).

klobbr

I learn something about the brand and history of the MB build quality every day. Compared to my past cars, MB brakes are very sound. I hope I am not jinxing myself since were having a blizzard in the Midwest today. I do have the 18" wheels on my wagon, is it really that much different than the base equipment?

Cheers,
Bob

alsyli

I do think the tires (rather than the wheels) make the difference since the 18" wheel package includes summer (vs. all-season) tires, right? I'm also extrapolating from data obtained by the various car mags (esp w/ the C-class, which consistently posts significantly better skidpad and braking results w/ the 18"-wheel package). I think Car and Driver tested an E550 sedan w/i in the past yr and commented that there was a large variance even w/i the diff all-season tires that you get on the W212.... So it's more of an issue w/ the tires than w/ the car itself, I suppose.

WEBSRFR

Did I read the article correctly in that they are discontinuing the E550 V8 for the E class? What a horrible idea.

My only consolation is that the new E63 comes with 4MATIC so that removes the only issue I previously had with getting an AMG car as 4MATIC is a must for me. It looks like what they are trying to do is move over the E550 customers to the E63. With 4MATIC being available with the E63 now that might not be a bad idea.

The only other option I'd like would be a SWB S550 in America. Not sure why the S550 is only available as a LWB model in the US when many of those vehicles in the US are not chauffeur driven.

kingbaabu

I personally like the 2010-12 E class way more than the 2014..
imagine this face lift was released first, then 4 eyes version?

kingbaabu

I personally like the 2010-12 E class way more than the 2014..
imagine this face lift was released first, then 4 eyes version?

kingbaabu

I personally like the 2010-12 E class way more than the 2014..
imagine this face lift was released first, then 4 eyes version?

kingbaabu

I personally like the 2010-12 E class way more than the 2014..
imagine this face lift was released first, then 4 eyes version?

hyperion667