samkimg

Hi all

I'm awaiting delivery of my replacement 2014 E350 sport, due next month (https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...y-finally.html) and I'm planning to tint it and get a clear bra for the front.

Any recommended shops and expected costs in NorCal?

thenew3

Transparent Glass Coating in Soquel does a very good job with Formula 1 tint as well as 3M clear bra/protector. Just had my E350 done there almost 2 weeks ago, and my father's C300 done a week before.

CEB

I would strongly recommend spending the extra $$ and getting Huper Optik tint. While there are other ceramic tints available, HO is still the standard allowing you to use a very light tint but still get very good heat and UV rejection.

As far as clear bra is concerned, surface prep is key. Your paint will have rail dust on it (even if it came shrink wrapped) and that needs to be removed before any clear bra is applied.

I'm pretty intrigued by the new 3M liquid clear bra. I've not seen it being applied (aside from the videos), but I've been very impressed with the finished product (which I have seen). You can cover areas that you can't with sheet protectant.

thenew3

I would strongly recommend against huper optik. I've had huper on my last 3 cars, and there is a known issue with huper tint and that is it tends to cloud or distort on windows that are not 100% straight. Most rear windows are not 100% straight so heat shrinking is necessary on the tint to get it to fit properly. when heat shrunk, the huper will start to develop a cloudy haze and distort the image. huper will not cover this under their "lifetime" warranty. The cloudiness may not appear immediately, on one of my cars it took 6 years for it to develop, on another it started to get cloudy after about 1 year of use, and the 3rd car got cloudy after about 4 years.

There are many discussions of this online. I've had this happen to all 3 of my last cars that has had huper done.

Huper ceramic tint was designed for use on building windows (i.e. glass that is perfectly straight), it wasn't designed for use on curved glass found on cars.

Most modern ceramic tint have the same UV (99 to 99.5%) blocking characteristics as huper, and most block about the same amount of heat as huper as well.

Its also harder to find an installer that will do huper on a car, and huper doesn't honor their warranty at all.
I've had 3 back windows that are completely clouded up, and 1 side window that started to bubble and peal, huper won't replace them.
Speaking with Huper, they will only honor warranty if the replacement work is done at the same installer that did the installation, and only if you have the original invoice and warranty card, and they will only pay for it after they get the tint back and inspect it and find it to be manufacturing defect (i.e. not installer or user error). the chances to them admitting to mfg defect is 0.

I spoke with a huper installer (the shop that installed my F1 tint also does hupers, and I've had him do huper on a previous car), says they've never been successful getting huper to honor the warranty, where as F1 doesn't ask any questions and allows any installer to replace tint done at any other installer without question.

pricing wise, I paid $415 for all glass on my wagon to be tinted including windshield and sunroof. using F1 Pinnacle ceramic on all windows except windshield which had F1 Air blue. Huper from the same shop was close to the $700 range, and 3M Crystalline at that same shop (supposedly latest and greatest, better than ceramic) would be close to $850 range.

CEB

Interesting. I've had HO on my last five or six cars without any issues so I can't comment on warranty problems. I know I've had HO on one car for 6+ years without problems - perhaps it is an installer issue?

There are different types of HO - some made for commercial buildings and some for cars. The HO for cars is more plyable and is designed to be used on curved surfaces.

I see a few reports of HO problems but they don't seem that widespread.

Regarding tint on rear windows - I have generally shied away from that because of the halos you see ay night (caused by ANY tint over the defroster lines) and I use the sunshade during sunny days to keep the UV and heat out of the back windows.

Any significant amount of tint on the rear window may interfere with the dimming mirror as well.

thenew3

I had thought it was the installer, but the 3 cars were done by 3 different installers in two different states, so unless all 3 installers were incompetent (I highly doubt it) the problem is in the material itself.

I've also spent about an hour talking to the reps at Huper Optic USA and they tell me they don't make a specific tint for automobiles. (Which is the same answer the installer at TGC told me) and that they didn't recommend the use of their ceramic tint in autos until recently (within last 1 year).

I've always had rear windows tinted and never had it affect auto dimming mirrors or have halo effect due to defrosters. I find the rear sun shade blocks too much of the view and doesn't do much as far as blocking UV and heat. To each his own I guess

CEB

I'm not doubting your experiences but I have found that most installers are using the wrong film.

Whatever rep you spoke with HO USA obviously hasn't looked at their corporate website which clearly lists automotible applications.

The next time you are in your car at night, look out your rear window at streetlamps. You'll notice a halo effect around them because the film cannot lie flat on the rear window because of the defroster lines. This slight distortion causes that halo effect.

thenew3

I did mention that to the HO rep, he said its the same film, they are just going after the lucrative automotive market. And since they don't honor their warranties, it won't hurt them. It's all marketing.

Also the installer that did my latest car with F1 also said the same thing, they do a lot of commercial buildings with HO, and he said the HO that goes on building windows and the HO that goes on cars are the exact same film. even comes off the same roll.

I probably haven't noticed any halo on the previous HO tinted cars due to the rear windows being completely cloudy from the bad HO film. the new car is a wagon and with F1, there is no halo effect on the rear window.

CEB

I'm amazed that the Huper Optik USA rep say "since they don't honor their warranties, it won't hurt them."

HO has a wide variety of films and if they are just using the same stuff on the one roll they have then they are doing you a disservice. Both the nano-ceramic and the clear-ceramic films are intended for the automotive market while the x3, traditional and shield lines are intended for building use.

If you look at the HO USA website you will notice that the films intended for automotive use are different from those intended for use on buildings. Any installer who uses building film for cars and car film for buildings is doing the consumer a disservice.

F1 is a fine film but I don't think that it is up to the quality of the proper automotive HO - your experience has obviously been different because your installers were not familiar with HO - no wonder it did bad things.

thenew3

yes the HO USA rep said "since they don't honor their warranties, it won't hurt them" off the record after our hour long discussion.

And the tint I had installed on my 3 cars is the HO X-treme Performance Drei 35%, and this is the same tint that is cloudy/hazy/distorted on the rear window. and yes the HO USA rep said its a known problem, and yes the HO USA rep told me I would have to take the car 2200 miles back to the original installer, have them take it off, ship it to HO USA and wait to hear if they will honor their warranty, and yes the 3 installers I've spoken with all said they've never been able to get HO to honor their warranties.
And lastly, like I said earlier, up unto about a year or so ago, HO "automotive" film was the same as HO "commercial building" film. They separated it a year or so ago and started to market a separate automative line(s) and this is according to the same HO USA rep who asked to speak off record.

So based on your experience, HO is fine. Based on mine, HO does not work on rear windows. Also the installer in Dallas that did one of my cars, showed me the box of tint, it had labeled Select Drei/X-Treme Perfromance Drei. so it is one and the same tint or at least it was 5 years ago when the tint was installed.

CEB

Interesting. I guess the HO rep is on the record now and - based upon your experience - people may want to look closely at what tint they are getting for their money.

The warranty requirements are a bit of a concern - it seems that the "lifetime limited" is really "lifetime or until you move" and could easily be challenged in small claims court.

Warranties have an expectation of being reasonable. The manufacturer cannot place unreasonable requirements on a customer to get warranty service. While they can require normal maintenance with products meeting a certain spec (for example oils that meet the MB standard for fluids) or say "no ammonia based cleaners", they cannot require you to use "Joe's number 12 cleaning fluid" found only in one store in Vermont unless they supply it at no - or minimal -cost.

A requirement to take the car to an HO installer for warranty service is reasonable - to require you to go to the original installer is not. What happens if the original installer goes out of business or no longer sells HO? Tint installers aren't the most stable in the automotive industry. This is almost like saying that you have to take your MB back to Stuttgart for service.

powerr95

Dear MBWorld members,

I am with Huper Optik and would like to apologize for any inconvienence from the incorrect information that has been given to you.

The Huper Optik warranty is the best in the USA and I can compare and contrast it to any warranty.
It is difficult for me to comprehend any rep talking the way that has been listed about their product, let alone Huper Optik's. I think this may have been said by a dealer that is no longer a Huper Optik dealer.
To clarify: Our warranty is nationwide. If you move to a different area and we have a dealer in that area, Huper Optik will honor that warranty. Please contact Huper Optik re any warranties and let me know if you have any problems.

The other comments about Huper being not for the back windows etc. are not correct either.
Huper is a more difficult technology to apply that conventional films. 99% of the films on the market for auto contain either a dye or metal in them and hence are easy to apply. This ease of application shows how easily the product can be broken down. Most of the time the more difficult a product is to heat shape, the more durable it is.
There are many products on the market that claim high IR rejection and ceramic composition. The minute you ask these manufacturers if their products contain a dye or metal in them, either they don't respond or they say yes. A true non ceramic film that is inert does not contain either. Even 15 years later, we are the only patented multilayer ceramic film in the world that is 100% dye and metal free.
This difficulty of installation makes us verify that dealers that represent Huper can actually handle the installation. Just bc someone has been tinting for a long time does not mean they can install Huper.

I am sorry for the lengthy explanation but I hope it makes sense.
We have installed close to 1 million square feet on royal Caribbean cruise lines over 6 years ago(that's the equivalent of 30,000 cars and there has not been even 1 claim).
Please email me at hrahman@huperoptikusa.com if you have any trouble with warranties or any further questions.
We strive to be the best and are always open to constructive criticism so again please email me if you like.


Thanks
Harry Rahman

CEB

Thanks for clearing that up. I hope that thenew3 will contact you and you can resolve his haze issue. I'm sure that you can personally recommend a shop in Dallas that can fix his rear window.

thenew3

Sent you email with my contact info. Let's see if you can do anything to resolve the issue.
Thanks.

CEB

Very good. I hope it works.

I don't know about Houston, but I know of no tint places on the East Coast that do both cars and houses.

thenew3

I've relocated to CA and thus can't easily bring my car back to Dallas to have the original tinter work on it.

In CA it seems many places that do cars also do commercial and residential buildings.

CEB

Ahh, well we know that everything else is different in CA. Best of luck and please keep us posted.

thenew3

Thank you. I've gotten in touch via email with Mr. Rahman. Let's see what he can do.

XPEL

samkimg,

Congratulations on your new E350 Sport!

Full disclosure, I work for a Paint Protection Film manufacturer. I apologize for the lengthy post but there are important details to know about Paint Protection before choosing a product.

Today's technology has allowed paint protection films to become better than ever. Some films on the market have taken advantage of these new advances and some have not. This has produced films that are not only free of texture (orange peel), but some are also highly stain resistant and even self-healing. On the other hand, some have not changed in more than a decade while others were very low tech to begin with. I believe this is why performing a Google search on the internet about paint protection film reveals such diverse opinions on the subject. Some folks have experience with older tech, some with low tech and some with cutting edge products. Add to that the difference the installer makes in the end product depending on their skill level and experience, and you can imagine how this combination of factors could produce a vast difference in customers' experiences.

That said, I would advise the following things to have the best chance at a great experience:

1) Choose a film with a low surface energy. For those that are not familiar with this term, it's basically a measure of how slippery the surface is. This is important because the lower the surface energy of the film, the less contaminants will stick to it (similar to the way a Teflon frying pan works). Contamination is in fact what causes yellowing, rather than UV as many used to believe. Exhaust smoke, oils from the road, pollution, etc. get into the pores of the film and over time cause film to look yellow unless they either can be cleaned off the film or never stick to begin with, which brings us to the next point.

2) Choose a film that is resistant to chemicals. Most films are not, and are quickly degraded or destroyed when subjected to them. Why does this matter? The vast majority of waxes and polishes on the market use some sort of solvent as either a cleaning compound or as a carrier for the wax itself. Kerosene and Naphtha are the most common and will break down and/or yellow many paint protection films over time. Another harmful but common ingredient, Xylene, is often used as the primary ingredient in bug and tar remover. If the film you choose can't resist these chemicals over time, you will experience yellowing and loss of gloss unless you find a way to completely avoid them. Taking the chemical thing a step further, the harsher the chemicals your film of choice can resist, the more choices you have when you need to remove a stain from the surface (bugs, rubber residue and tar commonly stain most films).

3) If you do choose a film (maybe because of price) that does not have both of the 2 properties above, do NOT use Plexus on them. Plexus was designed for use on acrylic or polycarbonate windscreens and it's a fantastic product for that. But there are 12 major families of plastic, each having hundreds of different members. They don't all react the same way to chemicals. Plexus contains 25% Naphtha...not good for polyurethane. Over time (especially on light colored cars) it will deteriorate the film. Instead, use a purpose made Paint Protection Film Sealant (these are designed for polyurethane) or at the very least use a wax that contains neither of the chemicals mentioned above.

4) Self healing may sound like snake oil, but it does in fact play a huge role in preserving the appearance of the film over time. Most films are very easy to scratch, or more accurately, easy to swirl. Simply wiping something off a clear bra with a microfiber when it's warm can cause it. Self healing films return to their pristine un-swirled appearance right in front of your eyes.

5) Be sure to ask to see examples of the installer's work. Preferably the edges of the film should be wrapped where possible, and where they cannot (for example around parking sensors or where body panels are bolted together leaving nowhere to tuck the edges) there should be no inconsistency in the distance the film is from the edge of the panel. Any of these edges should be machine precision. There should also be no obvious distortions in the surface of the film. These are usually cause by improper handling of the film during installation. There should be very minimal if any dust specks in the installation. It is almost impossible to have none (just being realistic), but they should be practically unnoticeable under most lighting.

Hope this helps. If you have any questions please feel free to ask or PM us.

CEB

Wow. A Huper Optik and an XPEL rep in the same thread.

attatran

I just did my 2014 E35o sport with Omega work in Pleasanton.
The guy is AMAZING. More expensive than other dealers, but well worth the $

attatran

Omega Werks

(925) 227-1322

Yelp him up, and you'll see that Vincent is very well known in the Bay Area

Frankster

I personally wouldn't go with Huper. Had it on a M3 and had issues with AM reception from the first day I got the car back. My keyless entry system only worked 6 out of 10 times compared to 100% of the time before. Long story short, my SA said it was the tint. I removed my HO and sure thing, the reception on my AM was restored and my comfort access was working 100% again. I'm not the only one:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=652417

samkimg

Frankster - Sounds like exactly the same problem I had with my initial tint from the dealer of my 2010 E350. After AM and Keyless-Go both suffered problems, they removed it and replaced it with ceramic tint and ever since the reception issues have all but gone away.

CEB

There are lots of tint places that pawn off metallic tint as ceramic. Most HO "problems" turn out not to be HO at all.

A true ceramic tint cannot interfere with AM reception.