DavidNJ

There is very little online about the 2014 E250CDI in the US. In Europe, it is still a Euro5 model.

When I looked through the printed catalog, under the E250 CDI, available with or without 4Matic, it says it has run flat tires. They Hybrid is also markets as having run flats.

My only guess is that is where they but the urea tank.

However, if you wander over to the BMW forums you will find the run flats are hated. The ride and handling are worse. Most of the few models of run flats available are generations old. The newest (and not OEM) is the Bridgestone RE760 RFT all-season. It was close to the RE960 without RFT. However, the current version is the RE970, and no RFT version in site. The others are ancient. Would any even consider a Michelin PS/2 if they weren't replacing a flat?

And talking about flats, the RFTs seem to have a lot of them.

Back to the E250CDI. This car has no special provisions for runflats. It doesn't have dynamic shock absorbers, air suspension, high end Bilstein shock...nothing. While it is a 17" wheel, the 245/45 dimensions have no more tire height than the 5-series 245/45-18.

We don't know what specific tire they will use. The RE960AS Pole Position RFT and Pilot Sport A/S Plus ZP are both available. But they are both a generation old and W and Y rated. MB likes to put H-rated tires on these cars. That lease such charmers as the Eagle LS-2 RunOnFlat (arguably the most hated tire installed on a BMW), ContiProContact SSR, and Turanza EL400-02 RFT. Three tires whose sole purpose in life is to protect the rim. As one Mini owner wrote about the Conti (while giving it 1.5 out of 10): "Avoid this tire like the plague!".

I was all set to order...but the rather odd styling, lack of meaningful improvements to already dated electronics, and the deletion of night vision really have me taking a step (more like a leap) back. This at the same time the dramatic S-class is introduced an maybe a year ahead of the C-class. Maybe this will cause them to move the next E-class up to 2016 MY introduced in 2015? Otherwise, why would they put so little effort into to this mid-life revision?

E Classy

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Live Oak

In January 2011, I purchased an E550. That was after negotiating with the BMW dealer over a supposedly equivalent 5 series.

When I discovered the car was available only with run flats, I went on a search for tire prices. I discovered, at the time, that the best price I could find, at Discount Tire, Tire Rack, etc., was $600 per tire!!! And at that time there was a lot of I talk about reduced wear life, ride, and susceptibility to puncture.

Off I ran to Mercedes (and I'm glad I did so). I may have chosen Mercedes anyway, but the RF tires were the straw, so to speak.

Don't know what the prices are now . . .

martinlarose

My 2014 e 550 doesn't have run flats

DC-IT

My experience with the RFT were quite acceptable.
I drove a 335D for 3+ years and over 65,000 miles (I had winter tires or 2 years).
The Conti RFT held up very well and should last another year.

Last week I traded my 335D for a 2013 E350BT which has regular tires and not RFT and the ride is much smoother and comfortable than RFT.

CEB

Coming from lots of BMW experience, I really need to correct a few misconceptions - in no particular order.

The LS's were universally hated in the 19" inch size. They had a tendency to get sidewall damage - and the 19" wheels had a tendency to get damaged as well. The LS tires in the other sizes (18") were generally trouble free. The other problem was that BMW originally sized the tire that was only available in the LS. It seems that BMW talked another manufacturer into providing tires in that size.

The original issue with BMW and runflats was that the suspension wasn't optimized for runflats so people complained about the harsh ride on US roads. German roads are generally glass smooth and the runflats with the original suspension geometry worked just fine in Germany. The suspension has been tweaked since then.

Odd story - before I was exposed to runflats and BMW, I had a GTI as a daily driver. I had just bought a new set of wheels with (what looked like) a decent set of ContiPro tires. I had arranged to meet the guy at a tire dealer where he was getting new wheels put on. I bought the wheels/tires and the dealer installed them - not telling me that the inside of two of the wheels were dry rotted.

A month or so later I was 8 hours away from home when I noticed a tire was low (this was before TPMS). I filled it up and the next morning it was low again.

I went to NTB and asked them to look for the leak while I went to get breakfast. They called me and told me about the dry rot and that was the reason that the tire was leaking. They had one set of ContiPro's in stock and offered to match the Tirerack price.

The next day I checked the pressure and noticed that the tires were the SSR (runflat) versions. I thought to myself "hey, I got a deal" and proceeded to put 50k miles on the tires. I noticed absolutely zero difference in ride or handling so runflats - without the mental stigma of runflats being bad - are perfectly fine.

I would assume that MB learned from BMW and optimized the suspension for the runflats in the US

CEB

I don't think that you can attribute the smoother ride the tires. Perhaps it is the cushier suspension and longer wheelbase combined with a heavier car that gives the MB a smoother ride.

DC-IT

You could be correct.
However my 335D had 17`` rims while my E has 18`` so less side walls but yet more comfy.

CEB

I never understood why mt 335 was so uncomfortable - regardless of tire. I drove on a non-runflat set of 17" Bridgestones for about 20k miles before I used that set of wheels for (non-runflat) winters and the ride still wasn't good.

E Classy

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DavidNJ

A few things.

First, the run flats are only on the E250 CDI and E400 Hybrid. It doesn't affect the E350 or E550. They always been on the E400 Hybrid. The E250 CDI hasn't met Euro 6 or US standards before; those standards have 6x stricter NOx emissions requirements requiring a urea tank. Apparently MB got lazy and put the tank in the spare tire well (a guess). This will hit Europe next fall.

While some people haven't had problems with their runflats, the percentage that does is much higher than with other tires. The ride and handling are worse. It is made even worse that the runflats are generally 1-to-4 generations behind the non-runflat version of the same tire. In the case of the E-class some of the best runflats do come in the 245/45-17 size; however I don't expect the car to ship with either of them (Bridgestone RE960AS Pole Position RFT and Michelin Pilot Sport AS2 ZP, both one generation behind the current offerings). A set of 4 of either tire is about $1000 plus installation. Only the RE960 comes in 5-series sizes.

The Agility Control is not a dynamic damper. It has a technology typically called 'dual piston' and is on lots current cars. Personally, I think a better job can be done with a correctly tuned mono tube shock like the Bilsteins. Airmatic is purchased from Bilstein. Dynamic dampers has an electro-mechanical or electro-magnetic system to vary damping force. There's another trick damper technology on the Z28, but that is more a collector car than a practical street car.

This video explains the Agility Control shocks:


Some German roads a perfectly smooth. Some a bit less so. Cities are cities. The UK mags generally recommend the dynamic dampers on 5-series models purchased in the UK. They are about a $1000 option, but may only be available with the Active Roll Stabilization (dynamically adjusted anti-roll bars) in a $3500 option in 2014 non-4 cylinder models.

Next, the restyle for 2014 seems very minor to me. Nothing on the interior, not even a bigger screen; the current one is the smallest in any car near its class. The big change in the exterior was the light modification to fit the anti-dazzle LED headlights. A must have option. Sticking the grill out an inch or so doesn't help the styling and may have nixed the night vision camera.

This video shows the headlights (which are purchased from Hella):

E Classy

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DavidNJ

I think you need to rewatch the video. It doesn't adjust anything. It simply has has valves that respond for different displacements and velocities. Always the same.

The S-class has Adaptive Damping...you may want to take your complaint up with MB engineers. Porsche has it also...called PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management). They also have the adjustable anti-rollbars, called Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control (PDCC) . You should give them your complaints...they may not realize their cars are "totally detached from the driver". They also have Porsche Torque Vectoring Plus to use brakes to manage yaw rate.

Those anti-roll bar systems are a poor man's Active Body Control. Although it isn't that much cheaper. ABC is $4100. ARS adds $2500 at BMW. And in a few months ABC will become MBC, Magic Body Control, which is one of the cleverest uses of technology I've seen in recent automobiles. It partially solves the problem that it is impractical to make an active suspension with enough power to respond fast enough to road imperfections. With MBC the suspension is responding pro-actively. Fiat ran into the same problem with their electro-hydraulic MultiAir valvetrain.

You are right...I am very disappointed with the 2014 E250 CDI. I've been waiting for that car for a couple of years, and was expecting the 2014 to move forward from the 2013 model. Waiting until 2016 for a W213 or whatever the next version of the 5-series is may be the best solution. However, I feel very exposed on maintenance costs on the W211 E320 CDI.

BTW, I've driven the F10 5-series, Audi A6, and E350 within days of each other. I thought the BMW was the best of the group, but they all have issues. An MB done right seems to be the best; the current W212 doesn't appear to be that car, at least from my perspective.

Now, if I had a lease ending now, an E-class could be a fine option. All the competitors also have issues. The E250CDI engine, in spite of being a bit underpowered by US standards, may be the most sensible engine offered in any car in this class. With its 7-speed transmission, if the driver is willing the press the pedal all the way, I'm pretty sure it will be more than fast enough. Being able to do 700 miles of commuting on a single tank is luxury that 4.5sec 0-60mph runs can't match.

E Classy

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K-A

Believe me, wheel size and tire size and tire brand have less to do with why the W212 is vastly smoother and more comfortable than the E90 than about any other aspect between the two. The E90 handles like it's on rails while body of the W212 practically wafts and floats away from its wheelbase when you turn. At the same time, the E90 can rattle your fillings apart over bumps where a W212 (luxury version at least) should float over them. The inherent driving characteristics between the two couldn't be further apart.

mikemargolis

This has been discussed here back and forth, I suggest a search is in order.

My 2011 E-350 Bluetec has run flats, yes because the Urea tank is where the spare normally goes.

I don't mind the run flats, even would say I enjoy them.

There is literally no handling difference when I take them off and put on my conventional pneumatic snow tires (Blizzaks). Except I have to put a run flat in the trunk because nobody makes run flat snows (I think).

Anyway, I am getting great tread life out of the run flats, and don't think they're an issue either way at all.

Wig

David - what were your impressions of the Audi A6?

K-A

My experience with RFT's: Maybe it's the newly released passive-M Sport suspension, or the new-to-BMW-F10 Pirelli P-Zero RFT's on my car, but considering I have no non-RFT's to compare to on this particular car, I can't complain one bit towards my RFT's. My car is hush silent over about all surfaces, grips well enough through turns and goes over smaller road imperfections in ways where they don't translate into the cabin at all (completely absorbs them). Frankly it's my first car with RFT's and the best riding I've ever driven even considering the fact that it has bigger wheels than any other car I've had before it (19's). Of course that has to do with the chassis/suspension itself but point is that RFT's won't ruin the ride of a car with a well executed suspension/chassis. RFT's and 19's sound like a disaster in the making, but if the geometry above them is right, they won't spoil a thing. Now, does that mean the car could be all that much better without them (what a thought that is)? Of course.

Interesting (and assuring) to hear your RFT's don't sacrifice your ride over conventional tires. I really wonder what the differences would be on my car.

listerone

Over all I haven't had a particularly bad experience with RFTs.My "d" had them too...I got a flat...and the dealer told me that you cannot fix RFTs so I wound up shelling out $300+ for a new tire.I may well be replacing the RFTs on my BT soon and I'll almost certainly go with non RFT Continentals.

DC-IT

Interesting to note that here in Canada both my 2011 ML350BT and 2013 E350BT do not come with RFT and have the tire repair kit.

Even the GLK250BT are not fitted with RFT.

DavidNJ

Mike, thanks for you input on your 2011 E350 CDI. Which brand/model runflat tires did it come with? How are they wearing?

It is amazing that MB didn't arrange for any runflat winter tire for it. That won't fly if is standard in Europe. On the BMW accessory dealers, people have put together space saver spare and tool packages in a bag for around $350. It should be possible to do the same for the MB. At least less space than a full size tire and with storage for the tools.

K-A, I didn't care for the Michelin MXM4 tires it came with (I think it was those). In Germany I pumped them up to around 40psi to get some control from them. The tire wasn't even sold in Germany (we had a flat) where the cars all had V/W rated summer tires. At the turn-in place they said all the American cars have soft suspensions; when cars are turned in in Italy they send a driver to pick them up.

We've been running a W-rated summer tire since the car was delivered the US. The car is very stable and nearly intuitive in corners. No steering correction. It feels a lot like a super late model stock car.

Wig, as a car, I thought the Audi was pretty bland. Steering feel was better than the MB, handling is ok. I'd say it was stiffer than the MB but not any better. We test drove a 535xi BMW which has hydraulic power assist on the steering. It had the best feel and on the circuit we drove I would argue it also had the best handling, but the gap wasn't huge.

The Audi seat wasn't especially comfortable and most of the features were primitive. The exception would be the navigation that integrated Google Maps in the nav system....it gives you the satellite view in the map. The night vision is only displayed in the instrument cluster. The nav/phone/etc. used a touch pad on the console to allow character input. BMW has added that for 2014 leaving MB the only one with it. It was more functional than the number pad for character entry, but I think the MB number pad may be better for phone numbers. One advantage for phone numbers, it is easier to use without looking at it.

The Audi didn't have the hold feature, useful in traffic. The LED lights, ventilated seats are only in the Prestige model. Audi uses a different technology for anti-dazzle, not in the US.

If the Audi was a primary choice, I would cross shop it with a Lexus GS and an Infiniti M. Or an Infiniti Q50. If you aren't getting night vision or ventilated seats, the Q50 may be the real ringer in 2014. C-class price with E-class features and near E-class size. No road tests yet but there is every indication it will have an very good ride/handling mix. I think they are naively equipping their sport model only with 19" rims; meanwhile BMW has made 18" rims standard with their 5-series M-sport package.

E-classy, aren't you the guy with the purple car? You have a strange view of the world. Porsche makes features standard on the Turbo S (yes...PASM and PDCC are standard). I guess in your view they are in the group where their "PDCC and PASM are for that special breed of metrosexual". I always thought a metrosexual was someone who drove a purple car.

If you watch the Koni video, you will see that the Agility Control is nothing more than an attempt to make a digress shock. Much easier to do with a monotube valve and discs.

CEB

There are plenty of run flat winters out there - just none that match the OE size.

DavidNJ

But isn't that what counts? It can be sunny in Florida, but if you are in a sub-zero blizzard in North Dakota, what difference does it make?

Manufacturers work with tire manufacturers to ensure there are tires for their cars. Special sizes. Sometimes design differences.

I surprised to see it has been a problem for years. MB may have believed they ducked the problem since US cars come with "all-season" tires and the European cars at the Euro5 standard didn't need the urea tank. This changes next year with Euro6.

CEB

Runflats can be repaired like any other tire IF you have a slow leak (a nail for example) and you didn't drive on the tire with low (under about 20psi) pressure.

Most tire shops won't take the risk of repairing runflats because they don't know that the car wasn't driven on low pressure.

Because of the softer sidewall, it is pretty obvious when a tire was driven with low pressure but with runflats the internal damage isn't obvious - but just as serious.

DavidNJ

Spare Tires in New Cars: What You Need To Know on Edmunds.com http://edmu.in/neakMZ