GregTR

Spent the weekend in Berlin running around town (literally, 42.195 km) and visited the Mercedes-Benz Gallery while there. Here are some of the photos I took while there.



Next to the entrance was this 1931 Mannheim 370 S Cabriolet A:



And right besides it was this 1934 MB200 Cabriolet C:





On the other side of the entrance was the S-class in all its glory:







Further back found an E-250 CDI in 890 Cavantis Blue which is the same color code as the US Lunar Blue although it looked a lot brighter than the Lunar Blue I saw at a US dealer. Had I seen this I probably would have gone with this color but instead I went with the 585 Indigo Blue blindly without even seeing the color in person. So I asked the sales person if they had a color sample of 585 Covelline Blue which is what they sell as Indigo Blue in the US. I have seen cars for sale on-line in the color and photos of cars that have been purchased and the color always looked purple to me. But the color sample I saw was not purple at all, it was a very steel blue color that I actually really like. Here is the photo of the color sample, it looks true to color on my monitor and to my eyes what I have seen in person:



Here are the photos of the E250 CDI:

It was a sport/Avantgarde model.



The interior was Oyster/black which is what I chose as well. Notice that there is no memory seat, the controls are not in the door but there is folding mirrors. The car also had ventilated seats and black roof liner.





Check out the sticker price! Base price was 46K Euros, about $62K. Price as shown was 71K Euros, about $97K!!! It leases for 499 Euros but I did not read the fine print/details of the lease terms.



We also found a nice red A-class and a purple CLA. I sat in the CLA, it had cloth seats and I was very underwhelmed by it, just as much as I was when I sat in an Audi A3. There is no such thing as a free lunch. When you want to reduce cost and enter a different market you have to compromise on the touch and feel and the materials and let's hope that is all you have to compromise on. Every time I get a cheap domestic rental I realize why a German Luxury car costs what it costs. The CLA is not a luxury car, period. It felt small, cramped and the materials matched the price. I would not buy one.









On the top floor they also kept this beauty, a W212S AMG S. It looked amazing! As I was standing next to it I was regretting my choice of not paying the extra $25K for the AMG version and tried to rationalize/justify this car but ultimately I'm sure i'll be happy with the lowly E350-wagon once it gets here. BTW the MSRP on this AMG E-wagon was around 140k Euros !

















I just had to sneak into one of the shots:


They also had this neat wall with models:


I left the gallery with a nice 100+ page E-class brochure and a key chain. Now if only my E-wagon could get here sooner...

BM2BZ

love the classic and the very last one ! more pics are always welcome .

BenzV12

Nice shots, thanks for your time
W222 is very definition of spectacular

hyperion667

BM2BZ!!! hi brother

fintail

Nice pics. And not surprisingly, the W222 is already in the Sixt rental fleet (and maybe Avis too) in Germany.

Next time I go to Stuttgart I should take more pics of the amazing 3 story dealership attached to the MB Museum.

BM2BZ

what's up, bro? already ordered the s ?

PeterUbers

love the pics, thanks for posting --

got a question -- what's the appeal of the E63 wagon -- i've never understood it

GregTR

I guess there is two parts to that question. Which is the part that's not understood? The Wagon or the E63S? Or is it the combination of the two?

The wagon is so easy to understand. It handles and drives just as good as an E-sedan with far more utility. I think it looks fantastic to boot although I must say that the F10 Touring is even prettier albeit far less utility and cargo space.

The E63S with 585 hp is just a monster. I can't even imagine what it must feel to have that kind of power in a street legal car. It comes at a price that is definitely not for the faint of heart. I personally could not justify the extra $25K over a nicely equipped E350 wagon but I totally get the allure. Fortunately if I want to go from 0-60 in under 4 seconds I just take my Ducati for a spin.

The combination of the two is the ultimate sleeper car. It's a family hauler that will eat American muscle cars for lunch. If I had one I'd definitely debadge it and taunt unsuspecting young punks in Mustang GTs. They wouldn't even know what hit them.

K-A

Man, love those Classics! Nothing beats M-B Classics.

How'd you like the CLA? I was gonna check one out at the Dealer yesterday but right then saw one parked on the road. Have to say I was very underwhelmed and unimpressed as I'm not feeling that styling language, plus it dilutes the exclusivity-factor right from the CLS now.

The W212 Wagon is one of the nicest Wagons I've ever seen, it actually looks "sexy" for a Wagon and I hate Wagons. The F10 Wagon though is really something special, the nicest Wagon I've ever seen all in all as it's so sleek and balanced. Whenever I go to Europe I'm happy to be able to see it. Stupid of BMW to bring the hideous 5 GT out here instead of that.

GregTR

IMHO the CLA will not make it in the US or probably anywhere for that matter. First of all it's not a $29,000 car. It's a $36k+ car. By the time you add metallic paint, xenons, leather and a dual zone A/C you're looking at $36K.

Second of all it just feels cheap inside. It feels very much like the Audi A3 does. Hard plastics not worthy of a luxury badge. Some might want to buy an MB only for the badge but this car is everything the badge does not represent. All you get is the badge. It's an A-class hatch without the utility of the hatch.

Third, the rear seating is just atrocious. They can't call it a sedan because the rear seats are practically useless. They call it a 4-door coupe so it's easier to stomach the total lack of rear seat utility. This one makes my E90 rear downright spacious.

I think it will be a flop just like the CL203 was.

K-A

Could't have said it better myself. Not to mention FWD is a disgrace for M-B, IMO.

I think it'll attract a certain braggart type on a budget initially (it certainly looks designed for that) but it'll date quickly and the "novelty" will wear off, IMO.

C230Brit

Thanks for sharing the pics. I'm typically not a fan of wagons, but that AMG looks like a monster!

PeterUbers

Interesting. Yeah, it was mostly the wagon part, but I guess if you don't want an ML63 SUV, the wagon is a nice sedan alternative with great utility. There's nothing I'm confused about regarding the 585hp....

GregTR

PeterUbers,

I don't think you can compare the E-wagon with the M-class. The M-class is smaller, taller and handles worse than an E-wagon when it comes to performance. I'm originally from Europe so I grew up with wagons and 5-door hatchbacks. In the US the word "wagon" has this horrible stigma attached to it just like the word "minivan". This is why MBZ sells fewer than 2,000 E-wagons a year and pulled the R-class while selling over 3,000 ML units a month.

The E-wagon provides more utility and more sport than the ML, period. I voted with my wallet and I'm just glad that MBUSA still brings the E-wagon over, I think it's an awesome testament to the European origins.

Not to mention the E63 AMG is more than a second faster from 0-60 than the ML63 AMG.

txace01

Posted from Mbworld.org App for Android

SolidGranite

I have to politely disagree with you gentlemen on this one. First of all this baby comes with DCT. That is reason enough to buy this little guy while achieving 38mpg with plenty of pep. The backseat is probably going to be its biggest setback but I strongly feel this car will be successful in the US. Unique styling, great engine, right price and it will sell at a discount just like all MBs do. Does it devalue the brand a bit? Maybe but who cares. As long as MB continues to churn reliable and beautiful cars I could care less. It's a business and they are in it to make money.

GregTR

Unlike many, I did not buy an E-class for the badge. I bought it for the utility, rear legroom, drive feel, performance and quality of materials. You can get a Golf with DSG for a fraction of the cost of the CLA if you want comparable quality and features without the badge.

SolidGranite

I'm not implying you did and I really hope you're not implying I did. I don't agree nonetheless. Yes a GTI would be cheaper but you get what you pay for in this world. Smaller, less gas mileage, cloth seats, less power, not even close in looks dept and even worse on reliability. I like the GTI too but would not consider it over a CLA based on badge but more so on what I'm getting for my money. No matter how you slice this pie a Mercedes inherently costs more for the badge alone but that is a choice we're all obviously willing to accept. For me personally I like the idea of a CLA over a C Class if I'm buying something small and more efficient. I'm shocked when I see the sticker for a new C these days actually.

alsyli

Do you live in the US? A Golf GTI (which would probably be the Golf most comparable to the CLA) starts at $24200. That's hardly a "fraction" of the cost.

The first C-class couple looked like a cheap piece of crap and had a cut-rate interior. Just based on photos, the CLA's interior looks no worse than the pre-facelift W204 (and, in many ways, it looks a lot better), and the W204 seemed to sell just fine. I saw a CLA on the street recently. The styling is completely overdone but, er, striking, and it should sell as well as, say, the VW CC, IMHO (which I also find to be grotesquely proportioned).

GregTR

Yup, I live in the US and een if we compare base model prices, the $24,200 is about 80% of the $30K base MSRP of the CLA so it is a fraction of the cost unless 20% does not sound significant to you. Then again, you will never find a base CLA on a dealer lot, most will sell in the $34K+ range not to mention that GTIs can be had for below invoice price any day while good luck getting a CLA at that price.

I sat in the purple CLA shown in the photos above and I can tell you that the interior feels horribly cheap. The round vent holes are downright GM quality with all their fake metal looking plastic glory.

The CLA is essentially an A-class which is meant to compete with your Ford Focus and the like in Europe. And the CLA is no different, it's the same underpinnings with a different, more polarizing skin.

I wasn't talking about the W204 I was talking about the CL203 which was a major flop and was discontinued in the US after 3 model years (2002-2005). Apparently nobody was interested in a cheap Mercedes neither literally nor figuratively.

alsyli

In a world where the top-of-the-line Mazda 3 sells for $29000, I doubt MB will have much difficulty selling even a $35000 CLA. And I'm not sure why you assume that you won't be able to get invoice price (or even better) for a CLA (at least after the first few months after introduction). MB presumably wants this to be the volume leader; C-classes and E-classes regularly go for under invoice, so I don't see what the CLA would be an exception.

I understood you meant the coupe version of the 203. And my point was that that car, inside and out, looked like a cheap piece of crap. The car had a horrible engine and handled relatively poorly. It essentially had no redeeming qualities other than being cheap. The 318ti also sold poorly; AFAIK, the 1-series has been selling just fine.

You mentioned the interior of the CLA looked bad. I haven't seen one for myself, so I can't comment on that. I can definitely say, though, that the interior of the pre-facelift W203 and W204 were also pretty bad. My point is that those cars sold well, even though the interior of the pre-facelift W203 was genuinely offensive, b/c the those cars had other, redeeming qualities, just as the CLA might.

I'm not sure what you're judging the CLA against. I doubt the Acura ILX or Buick Verano provide a nicer interior or a better driving experience. One review I read of the ILX said it was the car that the current-gen Civic should've been upon introduction (ouch).

As far as I can, the CLA offers an interior that is adequate for its price. If the engine is like the 1.8L one in the C250, it'll be a sweetheart of an engine. And all reviews indicate that the car handles well. I find the swoopy exterior styling nauseating, but I'm sure plenty of people will find it to be just swell.

We're getting into sematics here, but, to me, "a fraction" of the cost means something like 50% or less. While 80% of the cost isn't insignificant, IMHO, your statement that the Golf is "a fraction" of the cost of a CLA borders on hyperbole. The base Golf starts at $19000, and a fully loaded TDI goes for maybe $28000. Would you really claim that the base Golf is a "fraction" of the cost of another car in the *same* model line?

The clearly de-contented and cheapened current-gen Jettas and Passats that are superior to their predecessors only in terms of interior space and price are outselling the older cars. So car sales in the US aren't just about perceived quality.

Don't get me wrong; I have no intention of buying a CLA b/c I don't want a car that has swoopy styling and a cramped interior. I also don't like the fact that the US will only get the "sports" version w/ 18-in wheels (ugh). What I don't get is why some people seem to feel so negatively about this car. Just as the Cayenne ensure that Porsche can continue to, you know, *survive*, a successful CLA means we get to con't to get great cars from MB. ::shrug:: And, IMHO, virtually every car produced by MB from 1996-2002 was pretty bad (through some combination of odd exterior styling, poor interior fit/finish for the price, and poor reliability), and yet I don't see too many commenting about that....

GregTR

You're right. Car prices have been going north at an alarming rate for a long time and when the average sales price of a new car is $30k+ The CLA fits in to that price point nicely. What I think the CLA lacks is value. But that is just my opinion. Quite honestly I haven't looked at the true competitors of the CLA and I've been comparing it against the interiors of genuine mid-size luxury sedans and I might judge too harshly. I'm the guy who thinks the Acura MDX interior is also rather cheap.

Actually the 1-series has been kind of a flop in the US, they sold just a hair over a thousand units a month in 2008, their debut year. Currently they're averaging under 550 units/month for 2013, hardly a volume leader for BMW when they sold more 3-series in September than 1-series for the entire year.

The 1-series might be the only good indicator of what US buyers think about "budget luxury". The CLA has two extra doors going for it and it might be enough to make it stick.

And this is precisely why we stopped buying VWs after owning 3 German Passats and an MKIV Jetta. But as the market shows I'm the minority and people value price and size far more than refinement and quality. You know there is something wrong when a car manufacturer puts drum brakes and a rear suspension from a previous generation car on the new one just in the sake of cost cutting. VW kind of struggles with picking a direction. Are we going to go after the luxury segment (Building the Passat W8 and the Phateon) or are we going after Toyota and Honda?

I see your points and I agree with many of them. It is still my personal opinion that the CLA is not up to snuff but it might not have to be to be competitive in the market as VW has shown. But as other cars in its category failed miserably the CLA just might end up doing that too. It will depend on what the market will think/feel as a whole regardless of what I as an individual who can afford and buys an E-class does, I am not the target market for the CLA as neither are most of us.

Another anecdote: I have a co-worker who owned a 2008 W204 and was eying the CLA. He's been waiting for the CLA to hit the showroom to replace is C-class. His cousin works as a service manager at a local MB dealership and he told him not to bother. My co-worker now drives a 2011 E90 335i that he picked up two weeks ago.

K-A

The CLA being a new car carrying the Benz brand with a cheapest-on-lot tag and IMO gaudy styling will sell massively to is intended targets initially, even with its horrible interior quality, for obvious reasons. However I think it will age extremely fast and once the hype dies out, start being recognized as a more tasteless choice to the Benz brand.

However, assuming 20% or so discounts as MB's tend to get, with such a relatively low entry fee and 4 doors, it will possibly always sell for price-to-badge ratio alone, unless of course said price and car lower the MB cachet too much.

alsyli

Well, you can't fairly compare the interior of a $29000 car to a $52000 car. I also find that car interiors tend to look better in regular conditions (i.e., not under the studio lights of car shows or automotive museums).

Rather unfortunate about your co-worker. Our last-gen 3-series had no peer when it came to driving mechanics, but it was not a pleasant car to own (fritzy electronics, interior materials weren't very durable). I find it surprising that the service manager would warn against the cheaper cars; IMHO, MBs more expensive models tend to be more unreliable....

C280 Sport

Fantastic pics! Thank you for sharing! That W212 E250 I love !