nicecar

Hello and thank you for any thoughts, or in particular experiences with the 740i.


I come from a lot of Benz experience and know how reliable their cars have been (excluding the Chrysler debacle).
I have been looking into the E and believe that it is offers incredible value with excellent reliability, I buy cars a year or two old under a CPO program, and keep them for four-five years unless there are problems or perhaps boredom.


The 740i has entered my peripheral vision and it too offers very good value, the cars after searching appear to be similar in price, the BMW has a nice cabin, leather dash a little more tech, and a good look - to me, whilst offering a little more space.


The strength of the MB to me is the reliability of the E, I would plan on keeping this car to around a 100,000 miles (or the period of it's CPO period).


If you have any thoughts it would be good to hear them.


Thank you

PeterUbers

I read a bunch recently on 2011-2013 7 series engines burning up oil... almost a quarter every 2 weeks in moderate to severe cases -- some owners, including a colleague of mine, had to keep a box of oil in his trunk (care of BMWUSA) just to keep the oil light from coming on all the time, he'd fill up the oil with each gas fill. I'm not sure what years, but his, 2011?, has no dipstick, so you're entirely reliant on the engine computer to tell you when the oil is low.... he lemon'd the car after researching that it's a known issue. He said the car was otherwise amazing and drove extremely well, he loved the toys. The 7 series take a hugh depreciation, but for where you're buying it, it's already taken that huge hit and you're benefiting from someone else's loss.

Though I have no hard facts, my gut sentiment is that the 2012 E-Class is a more reliable options, though it will be smaller, fewer toys, though more nimble than the longer chassis 7 series. Also -- RWD, AWD -- is this an issue for you? I'm not aware of a 2011 7-series with X-drive... those most E-class cars in 2012 were 4-matic.

K-A is the resident expert on BMW, he can offer a better perspective on 7-series value, tech, and performance against a 2012 E-class -- are you looking E350 or E550?

nicecar

Thank you for your reply, I shall search the oil burning problem, I wonder if that pertains to the 6 cylinder 740 or if it is more associated with the 8 cyl 750?


I do not require 4 wheel drive as this shall be my Florida car. As for the 350 or 550 I would buy whichever one I could find with the options I would find useful (ventilated seats are handy in Florida) I would have no real need for the extra power, though it would do no harm either and can be a little fun when overtaking is called upon.


I have also - in the last hour - brought the 2012 M class into the picture, it appears that it would fit my requirements quite nicely, spacious comfortable and reliable.

Arrie

You need to look at the S-class comparing to 7-series Beemer. S-class is a whole step up in a car class from E. You cannot compare E and S. They have nothing in common other than the star in the front and perhaps in the trunk and the steering wheel.

As you are looking into 7-series Beemer are they on sale?

nicecar

Yes Arrie, the S class is an enormous step up from the E, both in terms of car and cost, that is why the 740i entered the picture, a 2011 740 is very similar in price to a nicely optioned CPO E class, it looks a good value proposition to me, and I was enquiring whether there were many forum members who had experience with this car.


It appears that the 740i has a rather sharp depreciation curve!

PeterUbers

No disrespect but you're all over the place: SUV, large luxury sedan, midsize luxury sedan.

The 750 is the one I read all the drama over the oil. Perhaps the 740 is immune to that. I still think you probably can't go wrong with any of the three but make sure they are CPO and consider warranty extension

Good luck

nicecar

I see the 740 and well optioned E as not that different especially as the prices are so close. The M also sits 4/5, it just has a little more room for items and I enjoy the elevated driving position. Perhaps I should have declared that this is not a primary car, nor will it be at my principle home, so just looking what's out there that shall be reliable, enjoyable and comfortable.

Arrie

How about the CLS?

CEB

The 7 series compares to the S and the 5 compares to the E.

There is a reason that the value of the 7 series is dropping like a rock.

nicecar

As I have already explained the 2011 740i compares to the 2012 E in cost, and yes it (the 7) compares to the S, I own a 2010 S550 4matic at my house on RI. I have travelled in 7's and thought they were very capable and appeared a good value.


What are the reasons that the prices are falling so rapidly?

kash2014

Well, look back to the w140 up until the w221. Great cars that have withstood the test of time

Look at a 2001 740 compared to a 2001 s500. Which would you rather own? S class is timeless when comparing the two, certainly appears more "luxurious" and I prefer the feel and drive of the Merc.

the e65 - e68 were unreliable and inferior to the s class, plagued by a few problems

But the current generation 7 series is pretty solid, I enjoyed a road trip in my friends 750Li

In terms of residual value, you would have to do a little more research but the 740i MSRP base was 70000 compared to an MSRP 93000 for the S class.

I think your answer is there,

a 2011 750 vs 2011 s550 wholesale are around the same price...

Tracers

This is not relevant and or helpful but I have to thrown a quote from Shaq... "A BMW is a poor man's Mercedes." Now that a bold statement because both companies are the top IMO, but kind of funny if you have a sense of humor. Go w the E because that reliability is incredible, I had problems w my 528 and 530 and that my friend is why I own an E550!!

shak

A friend had a 740LI, the v12 version, the car had many issues including 15k tranny replacement. If you get it, make sure it has plenty of warranty left.

nicecar

I would only own either the MB or the BMW as a CPO. As far as the 740i you mention as a V12 I did not know there was such a model, the 11 model that I was discussing is a 6.
Let me state again the 11 740i and a 12 E class are around the same cost, and it offered a little more space along with some nice features, perhaps the cost is less reliability.

kash2014

Well if you are going for a CPO, then it is not much of a debate, if you plan on keeping the car for more than 2 years

'11 model BMW cpo - 4year warranty probably expiring in 1 year and CPO extended warranty up to a max of 2 more years

'12 merc cpo - probably 2 years remaining on factory warranty and CPO warranty extendable up to 3 years

CEB

My take on things BMW vs MB - validated in part by ADAC (German Automobile Club) and my personal experience.

BMW is always on the bleeding edge of technology. If there is a more complicated way of doing things then BMW will find a way. A perfect example is the battery registration procedure. Once the battery is replaced, you need to go to a dealer to "register" the battery to the car's computer. If registered, then you might eke out a few extra months on the new battery before it is end of life. If not registered, then the new battery will be improperly charged and will die a quick death (about a year or so).

The "Intelligent Battery System" cable (IBS) includes very fragile electronics in the connector to the terminal (about $100 to replace) and the "registration" process costs about $300 - all for a few months of life.

MB, OTOH. is more conservative and - generally doesn't add technology for technology's sake. Nor do they normally add untested technology. When they do, it usually rears its ugly head quite quickly (the great brake debacle) and quickly disappears from future models.

BMW is often very arrogant and doesn't take regional differences into account (see the 3 series HPFP issue that was a much bigger problem here in the US than in the RoW) and thinks that if it isn't a problem in the motherland then it can't be a problem elsewhere.

MB is one of the more reputable manufacturers when it comes to resolving issues.

Outside of North America, BMW isn't considered a "luxury" brand - but a normal car brand with a luxury range. MB is considered both upscale and utilitarian - an odd combination that doesn't seem to work for anyone else. What other single brand manufacturer can build taxis and vehicles for heads of state?

BMW's depreciation based on quality and reliability issues as a luxury car is much steeper than that of the MB - one reason why the traditional "S series competitor when new" turns into a "E series competitor" when used.

shak

My bad, I was thinking about 760Li. As far as I know, BMW CPO will cover you until 6years/100k warranty, so you could have up to 3 years left on the car.

If you are planning to keep the car until 100k, and reliability is the issue, I would go with E. Test drive them both, see what feels better.

sspin1

Here is my 2 cents. Just traded my 2010 750li in for a e550 and not looking back. The only thing I miss is the room and power. I didn't like staring at the command screen waiting for a dreaded message of drive train malfunction and a hundred other problems to pop up witch is inevitable with that series. It would be the worst mistake of anybodies life to own that car without a warrunty. Had injectors replaced and 1 coil replaced to the tune of 9k. BMW's technology is no better than Mercedes. Stop and Go feature for example is way better than BMW's. Just my 2 cents

pamiboy

Perhaps you should also have posted this question on Bimmerfest.. or may be you already did...!!!

CEB

Stop & Start is another example of BMWs early adoption without regard to regional issues.

US emission standards, local gas quality and catalytic converter design don't lend themselves to the Euro style Stop & Start and I predict that BMWs will be victims of early catalytic converter failures in the US.

MB, OTOH, waited (with the exception of the niche market E63 where they had to implement everything they could to save gas) until they felt that the specialized software was available for the US market before adding it across the board.

I've driven several BMWs with Stop/Start that stopped - and started - at the first stop sign as you left the dealership with a cold engine. That will kill a cat quicker than leaded gas and doesn't make for a pleasant driving experience.

DerekACS

Not only that as you describe, but the placement of the auto stop/start defeat button in the F30-3 Series is a major safety hazard. Since this button is placed behind the steering wheel spoke, it is impossible for the driver to see IF the *** system is engaged or not. On three occasions when I stopped in heavy traffic with my F30 and was ready to make a left hand turn, the engine would quit unexpectedly. It's a very unnerving experience when the engine dies at such a critical moment. I had forgotten to disengage the *** and the indicator light was no where to be seen while driving !

This major ergonomic flaw on the F30-335i that nearly got me killed was the last straw for me. I dumped this gas guzzling beast and now couldn't be happier with my 2013 E350BT, a far more fuel efficient and comfortable car !

cbeck44

While no fan of the start/stop feature, I'm not so sure the BMW is that bad. I have driven them with it and the response is pretty much instantaneous, so not sure what the problem was for you. Also, I do not believe the function will enable on a cold engine or when the car interior is requiring A/C or heat and the temperature calls for it to be on.

CEB

BMW has re-tweaked the settings to prevent start/stop with a cold engine but the point was that they brought a new technology to all their cars without considering regional issues.

ngerstman

I would go with the e class, as it is perhaps the best full size luxury sedan ever made at its price point. Great car. Can't go wrong, reliable and build quality and fit and finish worthy of the Mercedes star. You would also be a smaller target for the many bad drivers in Florida(I know,as I have a place in Sunny Isles Beach)!! From a strictly prestige perspective, if you care about such things and not that there's anything wrong with that, I suppose that a 7 series is up higher on the food chain and not as many on the road, a tad different. If reliability is near the top of your list, I would definitely go with the Mercedes. Regards. Ned.

nicecar

Thank you for all your replies, the 7 is no longer being considered, I do not wish to deal with any reliability issues.
That has left me considering an E or M class. I am not sure if there are any drawbacks in choosing the M, have any E owners experience with comparisons, the gas or slightly higher cost of the M is not a factor for me in this decision.
Both shall be year 2012 CPO vehicles.
Thank you