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I have now spent several weeks immersing myself in this forum, and I think I've read every price negotiation and wagon thread there is - thank you all for you informative discussions!
That said, I do have a couple of questions that I have not found the answer to:
1) re a 2015 wagon custom order: has anyone placed one? I was told by a sales associate that 2015 wagon pricing has not been released, and so I cannot get a quote on a custom order E350 wagon. Is that consistent with what you all have seen and heard?
2) For those of you who have placed a custom order for anything, and have negotiated the price prior to the car's delivery, what does that look like? Do you actually sign a purchase agreement? Or otherwise put the agreed upon sales price in writing? For the car price, do you put a figure of "X above invoice/MSRP" and then define "invoice" or MSRP? For those of you using fleet discounts (which may change by the time of arrival) how do you account for these variabilities? do you decide on an "X below MSRP/invoice" in some written agreement and then say "not including any applicable fleet discount available at the time of the car's delivery."?
3) for those of you that have shopped multiple dealers for a particularly configured car, how do you phrase the "request for proposals/bids" for your car? i.e. do you send an email saying, "I'd like to order a car with these xyz options; can you do this for me for X over invoice/Y under MSRP, not including [fleet discount]?"
Sorry to get all uptight and lawyer-y on you - but you (collectively) have vastly more experience than I do and I haven't seen these questions answered in the numerous threads I've read....This would be my first new car purchase, and there are just some basic mechanics I'm unfamiliar with.
Thanks in advance for your insights! This forum has been an amazing resource. After 17 years of driving BMWs, and convincing my husband and other family members to buy multiple BMWs, I am surprised that my first brand new car purchase could actually be a Mercedes! But this has forced me to research the Mercedes wagon to death, and so far it has survived death by research (unlike the 535 wagon) and I'm really excited about it!
From what little I know - the dealers should have/had MY15 wagons showing on allocation for the September build. They should also have enough information to configure (and price) the cars.
Hopefully - someone more familiar with this will chime in here.
J.
PS: I see that the options/build pricing for the MY15 wagon is now up on Edmunds.com (also the E400 3.0 turbo sedan).
Last edited by J.Raymond; 09-09-2014 at 01:42 PM.
Reason: add Edmunds info
Maybe my info is a little out of date since I last purchased a new MB in 2008, but I thought the 2015 models would already be on the dealer lots by now.
Agreeing to a price on a car for which the manufacturer has not yet set a dealer price and MSRP involves too many unknowns. If you agree to dealer invoice plus a markup, the dealership doesn't know how the manufacturer might reduce their kickback. Plus, you can't rely on what the dealer claims to be the invoice. And then, there's "dealer advertising."
When I special ordered our 2008 E350 wagon, the price was known, so I didn't face this issue. If the pricing isn't available now, it must not be too far off, so I'd wait. In any event, I can offer a couple of tidbits of advice on how I negotiated my price.
First, if you send a bunch of emails requesting bids/prices, most likely you'll get no responses. That was my experience. Retail sales people like to deal face to face, even in the internet era.
Second, even getting pricing info out of local dealers over the phone was like pulling teeth if you haven't already gone into the showroom in person. One whom I called out of the blue actually asked me for a credit card # before she gave me a price quote, which I wouldn't do. In another case in response to my email, I got a call from a junior person (not a sales person) whose job was to get me to come in to the showroom. I got the impression that he got paid $x for each customer that he coaxed into coming in.
Third, if you aren't trading in a car and you're not leasing or financing, that vastly simplifies the negotiating and pricing. Salespeople love confusing pricing, and you've now taken away one of their most powerful tools.
My strategy would be to visit a couple of close-by dealerships and take the salesman's card without asking about specific pricing. Then call an out of town dealership (say 250 miles away) and see if you can get a price out of them. Most likely you will, because they know you're not going to drive over there just to get a price. When calling out of town dealerships, it's best to ask pricing about a car that is close your specs that they show on their online inventory. Then switch the topic to pricing the car you want to special order.
Once you have a couple of prices, call the local salespeople whom you've met and ask for a price on your special order. Now you're not just someone calling out of the blue whom they might never see again.
Funny, we had 4 BMW's before we bought our MB wagon. Our last BMW was a 5 series wagon.
Good luck. PM me if you have any questions.
Last edited by Long Islander; 09-11-2014 at 02:53 PM.
I have a 2015 E400 4M on order with a build date of Sept.30th. They no longer offer the E350 in Canada. It has been replaced by the E400 and we still have the E550.
In your case, I think the wagon will be offered only in the E400 or the AMG. You don't need a fixed price to order a car. Negotiate a percentage of discount off of msrp.
By the way this new engine is a tt 3.0L as opposed to NA 3.5L in the E350. It has better fuel efficiency, more hp(329) and a lot more toque(354).
Not sure about the E400 Wagon in the States just yet ....
Originally Posted by petee1997
I think the wagon will be offered only in the E400 or the AMG. You don't need a fixed price to order a car. Negotiate a percentage of discount off of msrp.
The initial USA MY15 DOG linked in the above post and the 2015 price/options recently listed on Edmunds.com only show a 2015 E350 4M and the 2015 E63 AMG S 4M. No sign of the M276 3.0L Bi-Turbo in the wagon.
Have seen the E400 Wagon reviewed on another continent ..
Everyone, a belated thank you for your helpful replies. This is great.
J. Raymond - thanks for pointing out the Seattle E63 wagon - I had definitely bookmarked that thread and can't wait to see photos! It does seem like if a 2015 E63 can be ordered, a 2015 E350 wagon should be able to be ordered as well so I will keep inquiring with dealers. Congrats on your E400 sedan order! Based on your and Peetes' comments, I googled quite a bit to see if an E400 wagon would come to the US in the next couple years but didn't find anything conclusive.
Long Islander - thanks for sharing your experience and for your very helpful suggestions. I'm in the LA area, and I'll be heading to SF and San Diego in the next few weeks so I'll try to go in person to a few of those dealers. I do plan to finance and have been preapproved by my credit union, but I'm not trading in a car (I'll be keeping my manual transmission E46 wagon). How are you liking the MB wagon compared to the 5-series?
Petee1997 - I was wondering about the E400 in the US, but I think as J Raymond said it's not going to be here next year. Congrats on your car, and keep us posted on its arrival!
Munich77 - My husband and I are actually doing a BMW "ultimate driving event" this weekend in a 5-series sedan, so I hope it doesn't weaken our(his) resolve to make the switch... part of me wonders whether I should just lease and see whether BMW will bring the 5 wagon back for the next generation intro 2017/2018... But I do love MB's proactive safety features and am ready for the comfort of the MB. So as far as options, I'd be getting Driver Assist, Parking Assist, Designo Light Brown interior package (curly maple wood), Keyless Go, rear airbag, acoustic glass, power outlet- and probably Lighting Pkg and ventilated seats - though I'd like to test those last two out before deciding. I love Indigo Blue, but Mystic Brown is also in the running (I'll see one in a couple weeks and decide....) This would be a car I keep for a long time, so I was really glad to hear you mention in the other thread that your wife's 2008 E-class has only needed regular maintenance.
Thank you all very much again for your helpful comments!
So as far as options, I'd be getting Driver Assist, Parking Assist, Designo Light Brown interior package (curly maple wood), Keyless Go, rear airbag, acoustic glass, power outlet- and probably Lighting Pkg and ventilated seats - though I'd like to test those last two out before deciding. I love Indigo Blue, but Mystic Brown is also in the running (I'll see one in a couple weeks and decide....)
designo Light Brown (X35) is beautiful. You won't regret it. I wouldn't recommend it with brown paint, however!
designo Light Brown (X35) is beautiful. You won't regret it. I wouldn't recommend it with brown paint, however!
Thanks, I have been wondering that! I think it would look really nice with the Indigo (and probably very similar to my BMW, which is steel blue metallic over natural brown).
There is a wagon on a nearby lot with nearly all my options, except that it's chestnut + walnut burl, but after extensive browsing of photos of this combo, it leaves me cold - the chestnut and walnut really seem to clash. I'm checking it out this weekend; maybe it won't look bad in person, but at this price I don't want to settle, especially since I'll be keeping the car a while. If MB had kept natural beige for the E-class that would be an easy choice.
Do you have photos of your designo light brown interior? I absolutely love every photo I've seen but it hasn't been that many.
Also, this E350 sedan (link) is listed as having designo light brown leather - I actually love the smooth leather with black piping. The non-perforated leather is one reason I'm considering skipping the ventilated seats. Is contrast piping something you can request when ordering a designo interior?
Beemie, that link in your last post to the car with the light brown interior - it is very similar to the interior of my '11 E.
Mine has the perforated seats though (with ventilation), but not the black piping. Also, the seat backs in mine are also light brown instead of black, and the center of the rear seat of mine is also light brown, not black.
Nevertheless, the color is basically the same and it is very pleasing to me.
I don't know the exact name of the color combo but my previous '05 E had the light tan interior. Basically all of it was a lovely light tan, including the carpeting, but the top of the dash and doors was what I'd call taupe. Between the light tan, the taupe, and the wood it was smashing.
Downside was that it got dirty, mostly the carpet, especially at the front door sills. Eventually it simply wouldn't come clean anymore. The steering wheel leather also got dirty and was hell to clean - especially at the stitching.
Beemie, that link in your last post to the car with the light brown interior - it is very similar to the interior of my '11 E.
Dan
That's good to know - I think I need to see the chestnut in person. So far in the photos I've seen, I find it more appealing with black wood trim than wither either of the brows, but again photos can be deceiving. Is yours the chestnut leather? Or is it the "natural beige" that has unfortunately been discontinued in the sedan/wagon?
I hear you on light carpet! My current car has brown seats but black carpet, and it's a good thing because it has been our road tripping dog mobile for a decade and still looks quite good. No matter what color seats, I will definitely need to stick with black carpet for the MB!
Considering that the MY15 E350 Wagon offering in the States is mostly unchanged - and with the E-Class wagon reportedly scheduled for a complete redesign in late 2016 (probably offered as a MY17) ...
You might consider a short-term lease on a MY14 model and wait for the new-and-improved version. If there are any MY14 wagons to be had - they might come at a good savings.
Never leased a car myself - but have purchased a few motor vehicles shortly before the "new models" were released. There are always arguments to go with an existing design .. but ....
Just a thought
J.
PS: My reading shows that the next generation E-Class will have Mercedes returning to an inline six engine line-up (perfect primary and secondary balance - inherently smooth w/o balancers).
J - you raise really good points that I have been mulling over myself with regard to the future E-class redesign. I have never leased a car either, but have been starting to consider it more seriously for exactly the reason you mention. Also, the new generation E-class should have head up display which the new C-class already has, and which is something that I would find useful. Then again, at least the current engine is a known quantity - although maybe I've been traumatized by witnessing the BMW N54 debacle unfold over a period of years! (Every time I would come close to convincing myself that I could deal with the risk of owning a N54 engine, I would imagine my husband, dog and myself limping along on some rural Utah highway on our annual trip and our precious vacation days spent dealing with the logistics of getting to dealer...). But speaking of the future E - is there any speculation that MB will pull a BMW move and withhold the midsize wagon from the NA market?
YYZ-E55 - that is absolutely gorgeous!!! Did you have to ask for that black piping or did it just come with it? I really,really love that color. So much that even if I decide to lease, I wonder if I would still order the car just for that beautiful interior...
Everyone, a belated thank you for your helpful replies. This is great.
J. Raymond - thanks for pointing out the Seattle E63 wagon - I had definitely bookmarked that thread and can't wait to see photos! It does seem like if a 2015 E63 can be ordered, a 2015 E350 wagon should be able to be ordered as well so I will keep inquiring with dealers. Congrats on your E400 sedan order! Based on your and Peetes' comments, I googled quite a bit to see if an E400 wagon would come to the US in the next couple years but didn't find anything conclusive.
Long Islander - thanks for sharing your experience and for your very helpful suggestions. I'm in the LA area, and I'll be heading to SF and San Diego in the next few weeks so I'll try to go in person to a few of those dealers. I do plan to finance and have been preapproved by my credit union, but I'm not trading in a car (I'll be keeping my manual transmission E46 wagon). How are you liking the MB wagon compared to the 5-series?
Petee1997 - I was wondering about the E400 in the US, but I think as J Raymond said it's not going to be here next year. Congrats on your car, and keep us posted on its arrival!
Munich77 - My husband and I are actually doing a BMW "ultimate driving event" this weekend in a 5-series sedan, so I hope it doesn't weaken our(his) resolve to make the switch... part of me wonders whether I should just lease and see whether BMW will bring the 5 wagon back for the next generation intro 2017/2018... But I do love MB's proactive safety features and am ready for the comfort of the MB. So as far as options, I'd be getting Driver Assist, Parking Assist, Designo Light Brown interior package (curly maple wood), Keyless Go, rear airbag, acoustic glass, power outlet- and probably Lighting Pkg and ventilated seats - though I'd like to test those last two out before deciding. I love Indigo Blue, but Mystic Brown is also in the running (I'll see one in a couple weeks and decide....) This would be a car I keep for a long time, so I was really glad to hear you mention in the other thread that your wife's 2008 E-class has only needed regular maintenance.
Thank you all very much again for your helpful comments!
Beemie - enjoy the BMW event - I had a loaner 535 back in the dark days and it made my butt hurt. I just don't think that BMWs are that durable these days.
Did you have to ask for that black piping or did it just come with it? I really,really love that color. So much that even if I decide to lease, I wonder if I would still order the car just for that beautiful interior...
The piping is standard with nappa (8xx code) or designo nappa (x code) leather.
YYZ-E55, thanks for the info - I had asked the two sales people I have been in touch with about the piping and neither could give me a definitive answer. That porcelain interior is beautiful - I keep on looking at photos of it, but since this car will be a dogmobile, and and we go on various hiking & beach trips, I don't think we could get away with such a light interior.
I do keep going back and forth between Indigo and Mystic Brown - in large part because of the photos in this thread, but if I choose Mystic Brown I'm less certain on the interior color since I don't want black and would ruin porcelain. Do you think these photos are Designo Light Brown? If so, I think that could look good with Mystic Brown exterior. And there is a designo "Mystic Brown Package" which, for $6800, includes the mystic brown paint, light brown interior, and curly maple wood - hopefully MB wouldn't suggest a combo that would look bad.
Munich, the BMW event was great! It did make me long for a F11 here because I do find the F10/F11s some of the most attractive BMWs in recent years. But seeing in person all the other SUV/CUV permutations made us even more committed to the MB wagon - it's just so easy on the eyes. Does Mercedes ever do these types of events? (i.e. free, as opposed to the AMG driving school....)
YYZ-E55, thanks for the info - I had asked the two sales people I have been in touch with about the piping and neither could give me a definitive answer. That porcelain interior is beautiful - I keep on looking at photos of it, but since this car will be a dogmobile, and and we go on various hiking & beach trips, I don't think we could get away with such a light interior.
I do keep going back and forth between Indigo and Mystic Brown - in large part because of the photos in this thread, but if I choose Mystic Brown I'm less certain on the interior color since I don't want black and would ruin porcelain. Do you think these photos are Designo Light Brown? If so, I think that could look good with Mystic Brown exterior. And there is a designo "Mystic Brown Package" which, for $6800, includes the mystic brown paint, light brown interior, and curly maple wood - hopefully MB wouldn't suggest a combo that would look bad.
That looks like designo Sand to me (X10). X10 would be a nice color to combine with Mystic Brown as it's lighter than X35.
That looks like designo Sand to me (X10). X10 would be a nice color to combine with Mystic Brown as it's lighter than X35.
I bet you're right. I saw a designo sand interior this past weekend it was very pretty.
Also, just so that I can contribute a little to the forum, I'm attaching an updated dealer order guide (including designo options) that I received recently.
I don't have time to read through the whole thread but this may be able to help you answer a few questions- sorry if info has been rehashed.
Negotiation- I negotiated my 15 wagon's price off MSRP before I could even order the car. This way I had the most leverage vs. when the car actually arrived. This ended up becoming a moot point for me because I ended up switching my order to European Delivery while the car was in production (and the negotiation process is much different with an ED vs. regular order).
15 E Wagons, for whatever reason, have a late launch this year. Production did not begin until early September 2014 for the 2015 models. That's why there's none on the lots right now.
I know I'm biased but designo Mystic Brown is definitely the way to go. It should look pretty good with designo Auburn Brown (dark brown) but I feel like being crazy and going with the Mystic Red interior.
USA will not get the biturbo six cylinder Wagon for MY15 (no plans to get it if ever as of right now- things will probably change for the next generation in 2017). So for now you only get two choices in the USA, the V6 3.5 and V8 5.5 biturbo AMG.
xxGenericSNxx - thanks so much for your tips. Your posts have been incredibly helpful and I've bookmarked many of them - including that designo thread. I'm going to check out a mystic brown sedan in person this weekend, just to see the color. It does look fabulous in the photos (and I cannot wait to see your wagon!!)
Also, thanks for sharing info in your other threads about the acoustic laminated glass option - I would never have known about that otherwise, and most of the dealers with whom I've spoken didn't know about it either. I finally got my first build quote and that option (839) is priced at $300 (plus the SPC charge). Awesome find!!
Based on what I'm learning in the early stages of negotiation, the MSRP has gone up $400 to $59,000 for 2015. The price of folding mirrors, I suppose. Good to know you were able to negotiate a percent off of MSRP before ordering - it seems a reasonable proposition, despite a couple dealers' reactions that imply it is ludicrous.
Finally, for anyone else doing research, the ABA has just increased the fleet discount for the wagon (2015 and 2014) to $3,500.
No problem! I'm glad you've found my posts helpful. I just saw Mystic Brown in person again today on an S550. It reaffirmed my decision for the car. I saw it in poor indoor lighting as well as out in the overcast sky. The bright highlit areas are like gold/root beer and the darker areas are a nice milk chocolatey brown. IMO much more sophisticated than the Dolomite Brown that's offered.
No problem on the laminated glass- it was difficult getting them to offer that.
Dealers all play by their own rules and spew a bunch of BS all the time. But it's good that as the consumer you're doing your due diligence so you won't get sucked into their games.
Power folding mirrors are, I believe, optional on the E350 as part of the P1 package. $400 increase goes to us now losing the power rear headrest release (button used to be located near the heated driver seat switch) and sedans lose the net in the trunk.
09-08-2014, 10:34 PM
