K-A

That's a good point. The C is more of a copy/paste of the S than anything BMW or Audi have done. In person, the C literally takes every S line and tries to cram it into a compact package, which imo (and others have commented similarly) yields slightly awkward results.

The CLA also takes the CLS and morphs it into a FWD proportion econobox that starts at $29K.

All the big 3 are resorting to this. Brand identity is one thing, but at this point I think that it's cost savings by all of them.

Still, to the point, imo the C400 is a more enticing package than the other MB 4 doors. It's also surprisingly large feeling, too much so for a C to me actually as it aided in a less sporty feeling to me, but might make for an easier crossover from E buyers.

pamiboy

I doubt if current E class customers would want to switch to C class unless they really want to downsize. In all likelihood they would simply wait for the next model E class in a couple of years which would address all of the issues with this car... and some more. For an MB novice however the C class may be tempting.

K-A

Yeah I can relate to that.

Interestingly enough, right now it's probably cheaper to get into an E Class if you're leasing. I've heard that's one factor to the C's soft reception upon launch as consumers have become so trained within the brand to get those incentives (and typically lease), especially on the W204 before it.

The C300 I drove was freakin' $50K and it didn't even have Sport Package! Gonna be a lot of infighting between it and the W212, until the W213 will probably also attempt to raise prices. Of course, it'll come down to how steadfast MB remains on those prices or if they'll have to engage in even more incentives than the previous gens.

PeterUbers

So k-a I had to see for myself... Went to stealership for a wash and sat in the c300 with amg rims. It's a good looking car though I'm not thrilled with the back. Seems more spacious than my g35 but not as much as the e. Materials are nice except that open pore wood plastic stuff

It's a solid looking car overall and the c400 would probably be my pick over an e400 unless I needed more space. Overall I agree with your comments

K-A

Oh yeah, forcing that S Class back onto that more compact, supposed to be a little sportier profile just yields very odd and awkward results.

jmatero

Have to tell you though, after sitting in the new C, the interiors of the 3-series look and feel 10 years old. They nailed the interior... looks $$$$ more than the price of the car. Can't wait to see the next E-class.

K-A

Yeah. To be honest, I was quite unimpressed with the exterior and the drive was at best "basic" (didn't drive the C400 of course) but the interior is a knockout. The 3 interior was a POS before the new C came out. Now it's a joke. Though the 3 drives a lot more engaging and dynamic to me.

_Bondo_

AFAIK the only change in 2012 was going to Direct Injection, which yielded the 302hp. Other than that, I think it was the same engine that made 268hp since it replaced the 320 in...2005?

K-A

It's actually a totally different engine, just same displacement. The bank angles are even different, etc.

Germancar1

Someone has been reading Wikipedia.

M

K-A

Actually it's called spending an inordinate amount of time on car forums. I knew about the 90 vs 60 degree banks and why that's supposedly inherently smoother long before the 2012's even came out.

Germancar1

Right.

M

K-A

Lol. Aww. Don't let that complex creep back up because you keep realizing how vast car knowledge is out there.

Consider it something learned. You now know that both engines have different bank angles. Allowing the new 3.5 to not even require a balance shaft (60 degree angle). Does Wikipedia even mention that? Maybe you can find it and show us where?

Germancar1

Are you kidding? Your knowledge is a joke at best, we all know that. You didn't show or teach anyone anything here. Yes it does actually mention that which sounds just like you wrote it:

"The M276 engine is related to the Chrysler Pentastar V6 engine, with which it shares its basic architecture, as it was developed while Chrysler was still owned by Daimler AG. This can be seen in its 60 degree vee-angle, as opposed to the 90 degree angle of its M272 predecessor. The 60 degree vee-angle eliminates the need for a balance shaft, improving refinement while reducing mechanical complexity."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M276_engine


Sounds like to me you wouldn't know the difference between the 2 engines if they were sitting on your coffee table. The ultimate in arm-chair quarterbacking, i.e. a big phony.


M

hyperion667

I CAN'T QUIT YOU!!!!!!

equetefue

You guys crack me up

PeterUbers

This butter is goin straight to my thighs....

K-A

So you provide a linked text to something I ALREADY said and that's supposed to prove that *I* surf Wikipedia?

What did your parents do to you as a child to make your spaz out and internet attack everything people say?

A member asked if the engines are different, and I simply said that they were and provided one reason as to why, it was respectful. Who the f*** cares how I knew it? Why turn something so harmless into yet another flame fest?

I try to avoid getting personal on forums at all costs, but seriously, what's wrong with you?

PeterUbers

All knowledge has to originate somewhere. K-a never said he invented the 60 degree angle engine or invented the question mark...

K-A

Exactly. I don't understand why I'm getting flack from the guy for simply telling a guy "The engines are actually different, bank angles are different, etc." which are accurate. Where did I say that I made the friggin' thing myself? Lol. Even if I did get it from Wikepedia, then it's answering a members question, which is what this place is all about.

I remember reading all the press releases on the engine when it was first coming out, M-B talked about how the 60 degree bank is a unique design in that it doesn't require a balance shaft like the typical 90 degree angles (on V6's) do (due to being inherently imbalanced). I6's and Flat 6's, if I'm not mistaken, are the only inherently balanced motors out there (might be another one I'm forgetting).

Germancar1

You're a fountain of misinformation so when you got something right for a change I found it suspicious that it read just like it came from Wikipedia.

M

K-A

Bullcrap. You can't take it, so you try and fling poo. You're in the wrong, period. I've never seen you contribute once to a subject without throwing vitriol. Not once.

Here's an idea. Stop paying attention to me, as I'll be more than happy to do the same to you. People here will appreciate it.

Germancar1

LOL...now that's funny. Can't take what? You being able to re-word Wikipedia? Too funny.

So says the troll in every thread talking about how Mercedes is making mistakes and never contributes anything other than brainless repetition criticism.

You don't realize how loathed you are on these boards. You're the #1 person on ignore for a reason. Now you feel good because you were able to actually contribute something from Wikipedia...hilarious.


M

K-A

What's your obsession with Wikipedia? You literally can't take getting schooled on information. It's fascinating. Like a spoiled little kid.

You get into more arguments here than I do, and I have news for you, you're on probably as many ignore lists as I am. At least I have the excuse of being a Mercedes dissenter, you as a defender have it only falling onto your spastic personality. You've already been asked to tone down your vitriol or else you'd get reprimanded, yet here you are, making a flame fest out of falsities and something knowledgeable and innocently helpful. You don't learn.

Germancar1

I questioned if you used it, and you ask me what my obsession is with it? Hilarious. Nice dodge.

Nope, the only issue is your misinformation, that you don't like Mercedes, hell we were in the same boat when it was time to buy. Oh please man you're #1 ignored here, ask around. Every single thread you're in it is the same thing, Mercedes doesn't that, they're doing this wrong and yada yada yada. Like a broken record. On the rare occasion that you're right, I actually post that I agree.

M