tepcin

Hi:

Ok, I talked myself out of the high mileage but exciting E550.

Now the logical side of me is looking at a 2011 E350 4matic with 17k miles for $26,916.

It is priced ok, not CPO, but had an accident in which the drivers side front and rear door and rear quarter panel were repaired. The dealer had a TrueFrame report done, and that came back good.

I did test drive the car and it seemed ok. I'm tempted on this car because I only drive 4-5k miles per year.

With this low mileage, I could drive it for 4 years and get a pretty good resale / trade in value on it.

Here is a link to the listing:
http://www.westherr.com/used/Mercede...8a1b913c30.htm

How much does a prior accident count, as long as everything was repaired properly?

Any advice appreciated.

KEY08

Logical?
The accident will forever be tagged and affect the future value as it already has reduced the price in the present.
I personally would not buy a car that did not provide a thrill, but that's me.

cc16177

I would keep looking... I bought a 2011 E550 with 47k miles and a CPO warranty for $30,500 about 6 months ago. It has pretty much every option and has never been in an accident.

The idea of spending $3,000 less for an E350 without a CPO warranty, AND being in an accident (even with 30k less miles) is whacky to me.

cetialpha5

Keep looking.

I guess 26.9k is asking and they could go down lower. But that car basically has no options. No pano, no bixenon, no headlamp washer, no keyless go, no parktronic, no driver assistance package, no power trunk closer, no folding rear seat etc. If it were somewhat loaded, it'd be a consideration, but cars with no options are all over the place without accidents.

Try this VIN decoder, it will tell you what options it really has.

http://www.vindecoderz.com/EN/Mercedes-Benz

For the options available for that year, try this:

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/merce...cations/#44656

Also you're pretty close to a 2012, that one had the 302hp engine instead of the 268hp engine in the 2011. Although it is the first year for direct injection. A 2012 might also have some of the original warranty left and you could just buy the extended warranty if it's not a CPO from an MB dealer.

CEB

The car doesn't seem to have many options and it is very overpriced for having had an accident.

There are lots of better buys out there. Pass on this one.

MBSebas87

pass....and get the E550!!

mnje350

I would pass. No car is ever the same after an accident especially given the elaborate electronics and other systems on this car.

jonUF02

Resale value definitely tanked in the future. That car might sell for $20k now to an educated buyer. You can find W212 E550 with decent miles in that price range. Keep looking. I spent about $300 and a weekend to pick up a deal 1000mi away, saving $10k over anything near me.

Diamond White W212

Price is a little high for a 2011. Thats just $700 less than I paid for my 2012 - 9 months ago with no accident history.
Personally I wouldn't let the accident history hold you back if the repair was done properly. But it should put it in the lower price range compared to other 2011s. The longer you keep it, the less that prior accident makes any difference in value.

Diamond White W212

I would disagree that NO car is ever the same after an accident. With a quality repair, the only way to ever tell is a carfax record. And while the MB does have extensive electronics, they aren't located in the doors.

I agree that the car the OP is looking at is overpriced, but to assume that every car that had a minor collision can not be put back into pre-accident condition is incorrect.

CEB

The evaluation was done what? A year after the accident? While the car may have been repaired correctly, it is not in pre-accident condition and never will be. The value will also never be the same.

An incorrect repair - even on doors - can result in electrical issues years down the road.

Diamond White W212

I have 25 years in the insurance industry including a few years writing estimates and managing others writing estimates. While I have seen a few bad repairs, I've seen thousands of good ones.
I'm just wondering what your experience is that you feel qualified to say that no car can ever be put back in pre accident condition?
Perhaps you completed a few ICAR classes?

mnje350

I would completely disagree with the assumption that 1,000's of, "good repairs" implies that the car is back to the same condition pre accident, which was my original statement. Ok, you have been in insurance for 25 years. I have been in manufacturing for 30 years. Here is the basis for my argument.

If the repair involves repainting, and by the way most of them involve this, why in the world would you assume an aftermarket paint job would even come close to a factory controlled paint plant environment. MB and the like spend hundreds of millions of dollars on state of the art paint facilities. No repair shop can come close to that. Sorry, strike 1.

Factory installation of body panels are controlled by laser measuring precision with constant gauging and tolerance management. Local repair shop, not so much. Others have posted that even minor areas of the car have significant electronics, wire connection technology and the like in even the low tech areas of these cars. All you have to do is read some of the posts about those who have pulled an interior door panel apart. So yes there is a good possibility for failures here after repair as well. Strike 2.

Who evaluates and asses the type of repair damage reported on carfax? No one!. Strike 3.

Fit, finish, long term reliability are always questionable after a car has been subject to stresses from being impacted by solid objects. I repeat, NO CAR is the same after it has been in an accident. To think otherwise is foolish. It's a matter of if you care about the difference.

CEB

Correct. While there are obvious bad repairs, the quality of a "good" repair varies greatly - from functional to pretty good.

The standards for a repair are well below the standards of even the worst OE. Even a "perfect" repair can always be detected if you look close enough. Like you said, the easiest way to tell a repair is by paint thickness.

My BMW dealer put a door ding on my 335. The touch up repair was clearly unacceptable so the dealer said "we'll have our detailer fix it". When I got the car back, they had done a great job of repainting the door. Two years later the same dealer tried to ding me for "accident damage" on that same door.

I have yet to see a repair (even from high end shops) that was undetectable.

CEB

No ICAR classes - just 40+ years of being a car enthusiast on two continents.

Not only have I never seen a really good repair (aside from my 1975 Sedan de Ville that was repainted at the Maserati Factory in Italy in 1986 to correct some rust damage), but I have yet to see an estimate that came close to reality. This is not a slam against you but a statement of fact based upon my experience.

mnje350

There is a reason any dealer, reputable dealer of higher quality cars has a paint thickness gauge. They can easily detected aftermarket paint finishes. Why is this important? BECAUSE THEY ARE INFERIOR to factory paint finishes and diminish the value of the car and the long term appearance. The also command a lower trade in price meaning that if you are the seller, your car is worth less.

Now let's talk about structural repairs, frame alignment, geometry of suspension systems, powertrain, and wheel allighment. Damage any of these variables in a collision and NO, THE CAR IS NOT THE SAME AND NEVER WILL BE THE SAME AGAIN. Sorry but thinking otherwise is insane. That's why they are worth less if they have been involved in an accident. And because Carfax does not give the reader any idea of the magnitude of the event; a scratch in a parking lot is as damning as a collision at speed.

How would you interpret, "Vehicle involved in an accident, minor damage reported." No they are never the same.

Diamond White W212

Personally I’m not a fan of the orange peel that a lot of factory paint jobs have (including my MB and both BMWs). Apparently others have seen orange peel on their MBs as well (https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...t-quality.html)
An aftermarket paint job can be better if the proper prep work is done and quality materials are applied. My local MB dealer put a big scratch in my front fender. They managed to refinish the new fender without orange peel and a consistent appearance of the flecks in the pearl coat. They provided a ‘guarantee for life’ so I don’t see any downside if I kept this car 10 years and had a problem down the road. I don’t feel like the dealer owes me a new car replacement or that it’s going to affect resale. Try convincing someone like Chip Foose that his shop puts out paint jobs that are inferior in quality to factory. GM has had several class action lawsuits for faulty paint quality from the factory involving thousands of cars (http://ls1tech.com/forums/appearance...n-lawsuit.html or http://gmpaintproblems.blogspot.com/ )
We’ll have to agree to disagree that this is ‘strike 1’.
So I think you are saying that the humans in the factory can use their measuring equipment better than the humans at an external body shop can use their measuring equipment whether its laser based or a micrometer?
I know there is wiring in the doors not from reading posts but from actually pulling door panels a few times. Because there is minimal wiring in the doors (window and lock motors and lights) I can see a possibility that a ground could come loose or something. But I have never seen a specific example of a system electrical problem originating in the doors so I still see no evidence that there is a “good possibility for failure here as well” when I have seen no evidence of it ever happening.
We’ll have to agree to disagree that this is ‘strike 2’.


This one I totally agree with you on. Carfax is hit and miss on what it covers. I bought my son a 2000 Jeep Wrangler 8 years ago for $12000. It was obvious that the front had been repainted and the hood, right fender and grill had been replaced. We added a used hard top to it for $800 and 6 years later sold the Jeep for $11,400. $100a year depreciation (plus hardtop $800). So while the damage apparently had little effect on its resale value, Carfax had no record of any accident. I can agree that this is strike…..um…1. Carfax is unreliable and doesn’t include enough detail about a repair.

I agree that some cars are never the same but to apply an absolute like “NO CAR is the same after it has been in an accident” in all circumstances is foolish. Maybe we might disagree to the extent of how many cars are not the same. But if you really believe that no car will ever be the same (lets say it just needed a door molding replaced) then I can see that your opinions are based in emotion and not fact.
Whatever it is you manufacture, I don’t pretend to know more about it than you do and I assume you are an expert in that field. Thus far your expertise in auto body repair has been limited to opinions and reading some posts about pulling doors apart. So feel free to armchair quarterback. Obviously we’ll continue to disagree on this and its not worth further discussion. I’ll check out of this thread. Good day sir.

mnje350

All good points. But, why are cars that are involved in accidents and subsequently repaired worth less than those with no damage history?Is it because they are restored to pre-accident condition such that the event is insignificant? I think not.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone is talking about a bumper scratch in a parking lot. Never-the-less I don't agree that the local paint shop repair would be superior to what came from the factory. By the way, I have never experienced the orange peal texture you refer to in any of the cars I have purchased from, well any manufacturer. Domestic or Import. Not sure what you were going for there.

mnje350

Clearly you have never seen a modern automobile manufacturing plant. To compare a repair shop with an auto factory, pick any brand, is barely worth this comment.

YYZ-E55

Virtually every mass-produced car that was painted with water-based paints is riddled with orange peel. Volume OEMs cannot reasonably invest in the manual work required (endless wet sanding) to eliminate it. Orange peel was less of an issue prior to eco-friendly paints.

Look into your E350's paint and notice that you don't see a perfect mirror reflection? That's orange peel.

mnje350

I have been buying new since 1987 and I am not sure of what you are referring to in regard to high gloss automotive factory finish. Perhaps my reference point is too recent. Regardless, I don't believe that a local repair shop will provide a superior paint finish to what comes on a new car.

pamiboy

Wow...I had no idea that it was orange peel. I assumed that orange peel was some defective paint job with blisters....
This thread is becoming more educational for me... ha ha.

MBSebas87

hahah same here

The G Man

The problem with accident repaired vehicles is that the insurance companies will always try to fix it as cheaply as possible. Also, the shop can only fix what is visually damaged and not the hidden problems down the line from the impact.

JALLEN4

I spent four decades as a new car dealer and most always owned and operated a body shop. As a result, I traded for a large number of previously damaged cars, purchased a large number of them, sold a number of them, and repaired a large number of them. I handled a variety of vehicles from Volkswagens to Rolls-Royce.


An amateur listening to a dealer explaining why their previously damaged vehicle is now worthless or reading a "true expose" on damaged vehicles could easily be convinced of the validity of the story. Factually, that is far from the truth.


It is untrue that every repaired car can be detected by every dealership. I have seen many that have been worked on and you could spend all day trying to find it. If it is repaired that well, it doesn't matter to begin with.


Carfax is hugely unreliable! They invented their own industry and then blackmailed the auto industry to co-operate with them. Their reporting of damage is very inconsistent and reliant on a number of businesses that have nothing to gain by reporting to Carfax. It is arguable that any more than 50% of repairs are reported.


It is true that the manufacturer invests heavily in paint facilities and that the paint process is very different than that of a dealer's body shop or an independent body shop. While different, it is not necessarily better. Dealers are paid daily under the manufacturer's warranty to correct paint flaws from the factory. A good body shop will spend much more time on hand finishing one of their paint jobs than the factory ever can.


Obviously...frame damage, salvage titles, flood damage, fire repairs, and other catastrophic damages are a severe blow to the value of a used vehicle. On the other hand, it would be silly to think that any sheet metal replacement or repainting would affect the value by thousands of dollars.